Is this the bottom

I would say Zimmer is not going to get fired during the season. Even at 1/12. 

It would have to turn ugly in the locker room and with the front office for that to happen. 

I dont see a firing happening for just the record. Doesn't mean he'd be back next season though.

History shows Wilfs arent afraid to keep coaches on payroll. Wonder if that will change with Covid and the reduced cash flow though?

It's starting to feel like Spielman might be in more trouble. He bet a lot on Cousins and the extension he gave him in March doubled down and has really screwed the team's future if Cousins doesn't pull out. If the Wilfs were paying attention today, it should be clear that Cousins was a terrible mistake.

If Spielman gets fired, Zimmer's days are numbered.

I think Spielman and Zimmer might be gone after this season. I said recently said I didn't think it would happen after this season but I am starting to think I was wrong.

I think Zimmer should be kept. I dont really have a problem with Spielman outside of QB and Oline. I would keep it intact but let the Kubiaks pick our next QB and Oline. 

Zimmer has the players respect and holds them accountable to each other. His schemes are fine, you make the opposing offense earn their way down the field. He has progressed as a sideline coach and has rightfully let Kubes take control of the O. 

The thing about the NFL is, Defenses no longer have the ability to dominate with all the rule changes and officiating adjustments ( very little holding called) Offenses with average talent will score points. 

Kirk is the issue. there is no such thing as a consistent clean pocket anymore. Kirks signature move in the pocket is chuck and duck.  You saw Matt Ryan today move by small adjustments,  Kirk just is not capable. 

I like Rick. I like Zim. I don't even hate Kirk. They've all done good things for the Vikings.
... but if they all got fired tomorrow I wouldn't bat an eye. I know there's no crowds but still, you can't get blown out at home by a winless team like that. You just can't.

And as we all know, this isn't just one game. At this point I feel like in order for the Vikings to get to the top, we need changes at the top.

You don't have a problem with him outside of QB or OL, we aren't going anywhere without either a QB or an OL. 

yeah its been a huge problem for him outside of drafting bridgewater and trading for bradford and neither one of those moves was Gold 

@"Bullazin" said: I think Zimmer should be kept. I dont really have a problem with Spielman outside of QB and Oline. I would keep it intact but let the Kubiaks pick our next QB and Oline. 

I also have some doubt that, "Zimmer has the players respect and holds them accountable to each other." There are too many games where the Vikings come out totally flat and get pushed around by an opponent they should beat, and in some instances their playoff chances were on the line. I think they like Zimmer personally and like playing for him - but that isn't the same as going to war for him.

Nobody is getting fired in a COVID year when they went to the Final Four in the NFC playoffs last year. Will NOT happen. 

@"Jor-El" said: There are too many games where the Vikings come out totally flat and get pushed around by an opponent they should beat

Yep. Getting tired of the roulette wheel every week of whether or not we'll show up. I know it's the NFL and teams lay eggs, but we do it way more often than other teams. It's been a problem forever under Zim. I don't get it. I can't explain it. I don't like it.

@"Jor-El" said:

@"Bullazin" said: I think Zimmer should be kept. I dont really have a problem with Spielman outside of QB and Oline. I would keep it intact but let the Kubiaks pick our next QB and Oline. 

Saying a GM is fine aside from QB is like saying an engineer designed a good airplane aside from the wings. Maybe you can be a successful GM if you're not good at picking punters or even tight ends or linebackers, but getting a winning QB is mandatory. 

I also have some doubt that, "Zimmer has the players respect and holds them accountable to each other." There are too many games where the Vikings come out totally flat and get pushed around by an opponent they should beat, and in some instances their playoff chances were on the line. I think they like Zimmer personally and like playing for him - but that isn't the same as going to war for him.

@"Bullazin" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"Bullazin" said: I think Zimmer should be kept. I dont really have a problem with Spielman outside of QB and Oline. I would keep it intact but let the Kubiaks pick our next QB and Oline. 

Saying a GM is fine aside from QB is like saying an engineer designed a good airplane aside from the wings. Maybe you can be a successful GM if you're not good at picking punters or even tight ends or linebackers, but getting a winning QB is mandatory. 

I also have some doubt that, "Zimmer has the players respect and holds them accountable to each other." There are too many games where the Vikings come out totally flat and get pushed around by an opponent they should beat, and in some instances their playoff chances were on the line. I think they like Zimmer personally and like playing for him - but that isn't the same as going to war for him.

if you take into context his options he hasnt been turrible outside of ponder. Do you throw away a better than average GM, or do you get him some help for his weaknesses? 

@"Bullazin" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"Bullazin" said: I think Zimmer should be kept. I dont really have a problem with Spielman outside of QB and Oline. I would keep it intact but let the Kubiaks pick our next QB and Oline. 

Saying a GM is fine aside from QB is like saying an engineer designed a good airplane aside from the wings. Maybe you can be a successful GM if you're not good at picking punters or even tight ends or linebackers, but getting a winning QB is mandatory. 

I also have some doubt that, "Zimmer has the players respect and holds them accountable to each other." There are too many games where the Vikings come out totally flat and get pushed around by an opponent they should beat, and in some instances their playoff chances were on the line. I think they like Zimmer personally and like playing for him - but that isn't the same as going to war for him.

if you take into context his options he hasnt been turrible outside of ponder. Do you throw away a better than average GM, or do you get him some help for his weaknesses? 

@"Jor-El" said:

@"Bullazin" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"Bullazin" said: I think Zimmer should be kept. I dont really have a problem with Spielman outside of QB and Oline. I would keep it intact but let the Kubiaks pick our next QB and Oline. 

Saying a GM is fine aside from QB is like saying an engineer designed a good airplane aside from the wings. Maybe you can be a successful GM if you're not good at picking punters or even tight ends or linebackers, but getting a winning QB is mandatory. 

I also have some doubt that, "Zimmer has the players respect and holds them accountable to each other." There are too many games where the Vikings come out totally flat and get pushed around by an opponent they should beat, and in some instances their playoff chances were on the line. I think they like Zimmer personally and like playing for him - but that isn't the same as going to war for him.

if you take into context his options he hasnt been turrible outside of ponder. Do you throw away a better than average GM, or do you get him some help for his weaknesses? 

Really?? What context explains Bradford? The rest of the league knew his knee was about to fall apart by the time we traded for him. What context explains Cousins? I know he was supposedly a hot free agent, but I don't think anyone was bidding against us except the Jets. Oh boy, the mighty Jets also thought he was a top QB..

Even Bridgewater is hardly a slam-dunk, is he? He never established that he could put the team on his back before he got hurt, and he's not setting the world on fire with the Panthers (2 INTs today). My hunch is that Teddy will soon transition into a (beloved) career backup.

Spielman also brought in worthless has-beens like Donovan McNabb and Matt Cassell. He is given a free pass for everything that happened while Childress was here, so I guess we are not allowed to mention Tarvaris Jackson.

I think it was Spielman who gave up Bridgewater in favor of Cousins.
I think it was Spielman who blew up our defense.
I think it was Spielman who hired 2 former NFL head coaches to backup Zimmer.

What will the Wilfs do?

@"Carl Knowles" said: I think it was Spielman who gave up Bridgewater in favor of Cousins. I think it was Spielman who blew up our defense. I think it was Spielman who hired 2 former NFL head coaches to backup Zimmer.

What will the Wilfs do?

Wait, I'm wrong.  They'll put out some p.r. about how they believe in their team, their so close to a title, they're so committed, blah blah blah.  And the fans will gobble it up like always.  Results on the field don't matter with these guys, the fans think they walk on water no matter how bad the team is.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/nfl-teams-are-hiring-and-firing-coaches-more-quickly-the-results-are-not-great/amp/

Heres a pretty decent article. There is much more data out there on this. I get it, Emotions run high after losses, but well run orgs dont get rid of talent, they figure out where and how to improve.  Speilly and Zimmer are good talent, I apologize if that offends anyone. 

@"Bullazin" said: https://www.google.com/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/nfl-teams-are-hiring-and-firing-coaches-more-quickly-the-results-are-not-great/amp/

Heres a pretty decent article. There is much more data out there on this. I get it, Emotions run high after losses, but well run orgs dont get rid of talent, they figure out where and how to improve.  Speilly and Zimmer are good talent, I apologize if that offends anyone. 

But it's Zimmer's defense that's has been torched in big games since he's been here, and given up over 40 twice already this year. It's been Zimmer who has gone for it on 4th down at least 3 times this year unsuccessfully at critical points that were highly questionable. He's been notoriously bad at clock management his entire time as HC in tight games. Zimmer has been in my opinion more influential than anyone on our draft selections... (DB anyone?) It's Zimmer who decided what kind of offense he wants to see (the run setting up the pass with a 1980's style QB), while going living on the cheap with the o-line.

He hasn't proven to be a great HC. He still might be a decent D-coordinator if that's all he had to worry about.

@"Bullazin" said: The thing about the NFL is, Defenses no longer have the ability to dominate with all the rule changes and officiating adjustments ( very little holding called) Offenses with average talent will score points. 

Kirk is the issue. there is no such thing as a consistent clean pocket anymore. Kirks signature move in the pocket is chuck and duck.  You saw Matt Ryan today move by small adjustments,  Kirk just is not capable. 

If I recall correctly, they brought Zimmer in here in hopes of the type of culture he'd instill and because he was defensive oriented during a time when the Vikings were Rogers bitches for a # of seasons and Stafford was in his prime too. 

I supported him being here in a Covid year and I still think it was the right decision. 

I can't fault RS for what happened to Teddy and I also supported the Bradford move. Bradford had one hell of an arm still when we acquired him. The dang knee was the problem. 

Losing your potential franchise QB literally a week before the season is a tough place to be - even if you're the best GM in pro sports. I file Bradford and Bridgewater in the snake bit file. 

My own opinion is what many have been parroting here for a while. It's time to move on from Zimmer, KC and bring in some fresh new blood. 

2021 is the time for Zimmer to go, the year after for KC. Let a young qb marinate at least a year here.