Is this the bottom

You guys are insane if you think that Zim and Spielman with a top 4 pick, and Cousins, are going to draft a QB.  It will not happen, no fucking way.  Zim could want it, Spielman will say no.  He will pick a CB or a OT and roll with Cousins, we will grab a QB like David Fales or John David Booty in the 4th as our development guy.
How angry would you be if we go 3-13, get the 4th pick, have a choice of Fields or Lance, and we draft a OT?  I think I would have to walk away for good at that point

we made a 0-4 Atlanta team look like superstars.......The game has past this coaching staff by. Time to clean house, fire Zim and Speilman, and cut Kirk......

Before yesterday, I wanted Spielman and Zimmer to go but I didn't think it would happen, at least this year. I figured they would hit enough games against weak opponents to pull the team up to 6 wins, at least 5, and the Wilfs would allow them all to stay.

But...yesterday was arguably the easiest game on the schedule, and they stunk. The next 5 games after the bye are Packers, Lions, Bears, Cowboys, Panthers - all of those are better than the Falcons. Jaguars might be the only "easy" team left, so...is 2-14 possible??
A common comment is that Zimmer won't get fired unless the team quits playing hard. Were they playing hard yesterday? Some definitely were, Jefferson certainly was, but even if they are giving effort, players can get discouraged. How will they come back from the bye week? Vikings are 2-4 under Zimmer after a bye, so he isn't stellar at refocusing them. Attitude is probably sliding, Cousins sounded lost in his press conference.
I think the players know they can't win with Cousins at QB. Come back from the bye and get manhandled by Green Bay and I think they will start "quitting".
IDK if the Wilfs will make a change this early. If it were me, Spielman and Zimmer would be clearing their offices out today. But I bet they wait out the season. So it comes to the record. I thought 6-10 was likely a week ago, but now? Maybe they beat the Jags and split with the Lions and finish 3-13. That would end this regime IMO.

@"Skodin" said:

You guys are insane if you think that Zim and Spielman with a top 4 pick, and Cousins, are going to draft a QB.  It will not happen, no fucking way.  Zim could want it, Spielman will say no.  He will pick a CB or a OT and roll with Cousins, we will grab a QB like David Fales or John David Booty in the 4th as our development guy. How angry would you be if we go 3-13, get the 4th pick, have a choice of Fields or Lance, and we draft a OT?  I think I would have to walk away for good at that point

If we finish 3-13 it would likely mean that Cousins' play did not get any better. That being said, if the scenario you presented is available, they will take Fields or Lance. 

@"Skodin" said:

You guys are insane if you think that Zim and Spielman with a top 4 pick, and Cousins, are going to draft a QB.  It will not happen, no fucking way.  Zim could want it, Spielman will say no.  He will pick a CB or a OT and roll with Cousins, we will grab a QB like David Fales or John David Booty in the 4th as our development guy. How angry would you be if we go 3-13, get the 4th pick, have a choice of Fields or Lance, and we draft a OT?  I think I would have to walk away for good at that point

If they don't take a quarterback, then they should be fired. Cousins is not the long-term answer. 

It sounds to me like Cousins has  already given up on the season, based on some of what he said toward the end of his press conference. It's no skin off his teeth. He has guaranteed money. 
The players know Cousins can't produce a championship. That explains why a lot of the rats left the ship rather than taking the home town discount last year. Diggs was happy to go to Buffalo, of all places!
I don't know if this is the bottom, but it has to be getting close. Especially for the long suffering fans.

@"Hawkvike25" said:

@"Skodin" said:

You guys are insane if you think that Zim and Spielman with a top 4 pick, and Cousins, are going to draft a QB.  It will not happen, no fucking way.  Zim could want it, Spielman will say no.  He will pick a CB or a OT and roll with Cousins, we will grab a QB like David Fales or John David Booty in the 4th as our development guy. How angry would you be if we go 3-13, get the 4th pick, have a choice of Fields or Lance, and we draft a OT?  I think I would have to walk away for good at that point

If we finish 3-13 it would likely mean that Cousins' play did not get any better. That being said, if the scenario you presented is available, they will take Fields or Lance. 

@"Bullazin" said:  Speilly and Zimmer are good talent, I apologize if that offends anyone. 

It doesn't offend me, it just makes me howl with laughter.

This team is in a weird, almost sister-kissing position. We played well in three games and played terrible in the other three. We're Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde. We could easily be .500 right now. And so I suspect that what we are seeing on the field is a 6 or 7-win team that has, to its BENEFIT (in terms of the draft), won only 1 game. But there are TEN more to play.

That other team, that team who beat Houston and should've beaten Tennessee and Seattle, is going to rear it's ugly head again soon. And there isn't a player or coach who is going to allow this team to tank, even if it's in our best long-term interest. 

I'll keep watching to see the development of key players like JJ, Dantzler, Cleveland, etc., but the best thing for the Vikings might be some sort of quick END to the season before Dr. Jeckyll shows up again. If only there were a global pandemic or something....

@"Jor-El" said:

Before yesterday, I wanted Spielman and Zimmer to go but I didn't think it would happen, at least this year. I figured they would hit enough games against weak opponents to pull the team up to 6 wins, at least 5, and the Wilfs would allow them all to stay.

But...yesterday was arguably the easiest game on the schedule, and they stunk. The next 5 games after the bye are Packers, Lions, Bears, Cowboys, Panthers - all of those are better than the Falcons. Jaguars might be the only "easy" team left, so...is 2-14 possible??
A common comment is that Zimmer won't get fired unless the team quits playing hard. Were they playing hard yesterday? Some definitely were, Jefferson certainly was, but even if they are giving effort, players can get discouraged. How will they come back from the bye week? Vikings are 2-4 under Zimmer after a bye, so he isn't stellar at refocusing them. Attitude is probably sliding, Cousins sounded lost in his press conference.
I think the players know they can't win with Cousins at QB. Come back from the bye and get manhandled by Green Bay and I think they will start "quitting".
IDK if the Wilfs will make a change this early. If it were me, Spielman and Zimmer would be clearing their offices out today. But I bet they wait out the season. So it comes to the record. I thought 6-10 was likely a week ago, but now? Maybe they beat the Jags and split with the Lions and finish 3-13. That would end this regime IMO.

I have a hard time seeing Wilf make any change.  He believed in this trio of mediocrity enough to re-up all three for huge coin less than 12 months ago.  Now he's got reduced revenue, a hotel he just opened in a pandemic which means no customers, and so on.  Is the guy who hates change and believes in his clowncar leadership suddenly going to say to heck with all that and fire anyone?   Cut Cousins and eat the huge cap hit?

He might, *might* give Rick the go-ahead to can Zimmer but would Rick even do it?  Those guys seem tied at the hip to me, up in the office watching film together every Monday, sharing a spittoon.   I'm not joking that's their reality and I think they're comfy deflecting blame in any direction except the direction of Rick and Mike.

I was thinking that his answers in the press conference were not reassuring but at this point, we need results. He knows that he could be benched. I know it's not all on him but he doesn't get a pass either. There are many issues right now.

@"Skodin" said:

@"Hawkvike25" said:

@"Skodin" said:

You guys are insane if you think that Zim and Spielman with a top 4 pick, and Cousins, are going to draft a QB.  It will not happen, no fucking way.  Zim could want it, Spielman will say no.  He will pick a CB or a OT and roll with Cousins, we will grab a QB like David Fales or John David Booty in the 4th as our development guy. How angry would you be if we go 3-13, get the 4th pick, have a choice of Fields or Lance, and we draft a OT?  I think I would have to walk away for good at that point

If we finish 3-13 it would likely mean that Cousins' play did not get any better. That being said, if the scenario you presented is available, they will take Fields or Lance. 

That is what we assume, but limited time left on both deals would either be comfortable starting from scratch with a rookie QB.  Doubtful.
This is why they all have to go

@"MaroonBells" said: This team is in a weird, almost sister-kissing position. We played well in three games and played terrible in the other three. We're Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde. We could easily be .500 right now. And so I suspect that what we are seeing on the field is a 6 or 7-win team that has, to its BENEFIT (in terms of the draft), won only 1 game. But there are TEN more to play.

That other team, that team who beat Houston and should've beaten Tennessee and Seattle, is going to rear it's ugly head again soon. And there isn't a player or coach who is going to allow this team to tank, even if it's in our best long-term interest. 

I'll keep watching to see the development of key players like JJ, Dantzler, Cleveland, etc., but the best thing for the Vikings might be some sort of quick END to the season before Dr. Jeckyll shows up again. If only there were a global pandemic or something....

Maybe so, but even that "other team" you mention was wildly inconsistent: they had Seattle under control for the first half, then came out and became the uninspired team that let them get back in and eventually won. Their win against Houston "featured" some defensive collapses and they were 1 play away from losing, so as much as you argue they could have won in Seattle, they just as easily could have lost to Houston. I buy the Jekkyl/Hyde idea, but it might be that they are a 6-10 team half the time and a 2-14 team the other half. Those are both crappy teams.

As for whether any players will allow tanking, no I doubt that - but players can lose confidence in their team, even if it's just no confidence for this season. I could see players believing they cannot win with Cousins and not making the maximum effort. And they set a precedent with Diggs - if you complain, you can get traded. Players on one year deals, like Ant Harris and Yannick Ngakoue, might start thinking about where they want to be next year.

The win against Houston was against a team that quit on their coach. They were fed up, justifiably so and the coach lost his job. So that win doesn't mean that much. Ok they had a decent game for most of the game against Seattle and they were in it against the Titans. But they were ass blasted against the Packers and the Colts. The Falcons loss was absolutely ridiculous, some people are comparing it to the end of Childress's tenure. Being in a game but losing is a moral victory and being ass blasted shows that there is a lot of work to do. I know the issues with qb, ol and rookies on defense but at some point, something different has to happen to move forward.  I doubt anyone is fired this year though.

@"purplefaithful" said: I would say Zimmer is not going to get fired during the season. Even at 1/12. 

It would have to turn ugly in the locker room and with the front office for that to happen. 

I dont see a firing happening for just the record. Doesn't mean he'd be back next season though.

History shows Wilfs arent afraid to keep coaches on payroll. Wonder if that will change with Covid and the reduced cash flow though?

I think if we have a top pick and a chance at a top tier QB in the draft you have to do a clean sweep. It is the perfect time to bring in a new GM, Coach, and they get to choose their QB. 

It just makes too much sense. 

@"Mike Olson" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: I would say Zimmer is not going to get fired during the season. Even at 1/12. 

It would have to turn ugly in the locker room and with the front office for that to happen. 

I dont see a firing happening for just the record. Doesn't mean he'd be back next season though.

History shows Wilfs arent afraid to keep coaches on payroll. Wonder if that will change with Covid and the reduced cash flow though?

I think if we have a top pick and a chance at a top tier QB in the draft you have to do a clean sweep. It is the perfect time to bring in a new GM, Coach, and they get to choose their QB. 

It just makes too much sense. 

@"Jor-El" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: This team is in a weird, almost sister-kissing position. We played well in three games and played terrible in the other three. We're Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde. We could easily be .500 right now. And so I suspect that what we are seeing on the field is a 6 or 7-win team that has, to its BENEFIT (in terms of the draft), won only 1 game. But there are TEN more to play.

That other team, that team who beat Houston and should've beaten Tennessee and Seattle, is going to rear it's ugly head again soon. And there isn't a player or coach who is going to allow this team to tank, even if it's in our best long-term interest. 

I'll keep watching to see the development of key players like JJ, Dantzler, Cleveland, etc., but the best thing for the Vikings might be some sort of quick END to the season before Dr. Jeckyll shows up again. If only there were a global pandemic or something....

Maybe so, but even that "other team" you mention was wildly inconsistent: they had Seattle under control for the first half, then came out and became the uninspired team that let them get back in and eventually won. 

@"Vikergirl" said: I was thinking that his answers in the press conference were not reassuring but at this point, we need results. He knows that he could be benched. I know it's not all on him but he doesn't get a pass either. There are many issues right now.

From what I saw yesterday, I don't believe Cousins can ever be benched in Minnesota while Zimmer and Spielman are in charge. They were down by 25 points, he had been intercepted 3 times, was getting hammered in the pocket, and looked shellshocked. Wasn't that the time you say, "It's not Kirk's day, let's sit him down before he gets beat up more and give his backup some time"..? It really seems he will be the QB here unless he's injured.

@"Jor-El" said:

@"Vikergirl" said: I was thinking that his answers in the press conference were not reassuring but at this point, we need results. He knows that he could be benched. I know it's not all on him but he doesn't get a pass either. There are many issues right now.

From what I saw yesterday, I don't believe Cousins can ever be benched in Minnesota while Zimmer and Spielman are in charge. They were down by 25 points, he had been intercepted 3 times, was getting hammered in the pocket, and looked shellshocked. Wasn't that the time you say, "It's not Kirk's day, let's sit him down before he gets beat up more and give his backup some time"..?

Nobody is going to get fired or should get fired. IMO this is a throwaway year and tanking the season is going to make us a stronger team next season to where we can make a legit run again. Couple things:

- We are the youngest defense in the league playing without Pierce (opt out), Hunter and Barr (injuries).  We are breaking in an almost completely new secondary without any preseason. Give Zimmer a season of these kids taking their lumps and all the horses back in the stable and you are going to see a completely different defense. Zimmer is a proven commodity as a defensive coach and has been successful everywhere. You cant fire him in such a strange season where we have so many key players out. 

- Kirk Cousins is what he is. System guy who can be successful when surrounded with all the pieces. He is not an upper echelon QB who is a game changing type talent, never has been. To me the biggest advantage to tanking this season is this franchise landing a QBOTF in the upcoming draft who can learn behind Cousins next season and potentially unseat him should Kirk struggle. One of the biggest faults I have had with the Spielman/Zimmer regime is never properly addressing the backup QB position.  They couldn't yank Cousins even if they wanted to right now because Mannion is hot garbage. I do have confidence in Kubiak as an offensive coordinator.  Offensive line continues to be....offensive. 

- I'm just guessing, but I think this team will improve as the year goes on. Even with injuries there is too much talent to not believe that they will. I'm guessing 6-10 on the year which hopefully keeps us in the market to land a franchise QB in the draft