Kirk to SF tomorrow, work it out

There's no fix for the massive, boneheaded contract they gave Kirk this past off-season.  

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

Whats interesting on the QB front.... Look at how many QBs were thought to be their team's savior over the past few years to flop or at least regress significantly lately. 

Listen, if teams want to give up on Sam Darnold or Daniel Jones, the Vikings should be very interested. Those guys can play, they just need a better cast. 

You mean just like Cousins?

No more cast offs or band aids please,  let's draft our QB of the future and let him learn behind Kirk since we are stuck with his horrible contract anyway.  Spend the next few drafts rebuilding the OL and DL and we are off!

Cousins had already proven himself to some extent, its why Minnesota went after him. It was a pretty good team trying to get to the elite level. Sam Darnold is only 23 years old....Daniel Jones the same. If the teams are truly interested in moving on from them and they draft a QB high in next Spring's draft, you could get either relatively inexpensively. Is a 23 year old really a cast off or band aid at the QB spot in the NFL? IMO, it would be worth a shot, especially since they can sit behind Kirk until his contract becomes not so cap hellish for releasing him. I think it could be an option.

Yes, I'd prefer and LOVE to draft a QB and let him sit behind Kirk as you mention. Draft OL and DL, absolutely. My concern is the Vikings are going to end up winning enough to put them out of that probability for the top 3 QBs (Lawrence, Fields or Lance). Its a big drop-off to the next tier. And they really don't have the draft capital to move up without that #2 pick.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

Whats interesting on the QB front.... Look at how many QBs were thought to be their team's savior over the past few years to flop or at least regress significantly lately. 

Listen, if teams want to give up on Sam Darnold or Daniel Jones, the Vikings should be very interested. Those guys can play, they just need a better cast. 

You mean just like Cousins?

No more cast offs or band aids please,  let's draft our QB of the future and let him learn behind Kirk since we are stuck with his horrible contract anyway.  Spend the next few drafts rebuilding the OL and DL and we are off!

Cousins had already proven himself to some extent, its why Minnesota went after him. It was a pretty good team trying to get to the elite level. Sam Darnold is only 23 years old....Daniel Jones the same. If the teams are truly interested in moving on from them and they draft a QB high in next Spring's draft, you could get either relatively inexpensively. Is a 23 year old really a cast off or band aid at the QB spot in the NFL? IMO, it would be worth a shot, especially since they can sit behind Kirk until his contract becomes not so cap hellish for releasing him. I think it could be an option.

Yes, I'd prefer and LOVE to draft a QB and let him sit behind Kirk as you mention. Draft OL and DL, absolutely. My concern is the Vikings are going to end up winning enough to put them out of that probability for the top 3 QBs (Lawrence, Fields or Lance). Its a big drop-off to the next tier. And they really don't have the draft capital to move up without that #2 pick.

Cousins has proven that he needs a strong supporting cast to perform at a high level,  he cant over come inconsistent OL play and extend plays with his legs either by shifting in the pocket or by escaping the pressure.  Honestly he is about as bad as it comes in avoiding the sack.  I know those kids have had a rough start to their careers and location plays a large part of that,  but I dont want kids that come in already hearing footsteps or feeling like they have to carry the team on their shoulders.  

If we are really going to start over,  lets move Harry, Rudolph, Thielen, and a couple others before the trade deadline and get some draft picks or other young talents.  No reason to hang onto guys that will be past their primes when the rebuild is finished.  Let not half ass this,  lets go all in on a rebuild.   Hell maybe if we show Cousins every intention of moving on he will agree to rework his nasty ass contract in order to be able to be shipped out as well?  Then we could grab one of the guys from your list to compete with our draft pick and have a real QB competition for a couple years.

The time to do the massive rebuild was LAST offseason. The Vikings let a lot of aging guys go, but they could have done a lot more to set themselves up to really have a banner draft in 2021. Instead we sorta half-assed it and now the Vikings are 1-4, our best player is hurt, we have no second round pick, and the 2 most important positions- Head Coach and QB- are both on longterm deals.
I've defended Rick for a long time. I think he's a good drafter and I'm still not "out" on him. But we are not in a good position right now as a franchise, and Rick sits at the top so...
EDIT- To answer OP, Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, and Jameis Winston all got tiny FA deals last offseason for like $2M each. Kirk is making $35M/yr. No one is giving up anything of value for Cousins on that contract, let alone a first. Total pipe.

@"comet52" said: There's no fix for the massive, boneheaded contract they gave Kirk this past off-season.  

I have mixed feelings about Cousins' contract. I was definitely in favor of signing him: his contract looked bit at the time but was just the going rate for QBs, and those salaries keep rising. I thought he would improve the team around him, which hasn't happened, at least to a very high level.
But I do think his contract is the biggest reason for their cap troubles. They have (and had more last year) many highly-paid defensive players but I think Spielman planned for that years back. I truly think there was a plan, maybe formed when Zimmer was hired, to build a team while they had a QB (Bridgewater) on a rookie contract. I know that would have ended by now, but maybe they expected to have won a championship and have the latitude to take a rebuild year or two, or that Bridgewater might take a team-friendly deal like Brady.

Maybe it wasn't that specific but I see a lot of signs that salary issues have been a scramble ever since Bridgewater was injured, or since they made the unplanned trade for Bradford and his large contract.

This please:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2021-nfl-mock-draft-saints-replace-drew-brees-washington-goes-back-to-qb-well-cowboys-add-defense/

@"Hawkvike25" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

Whats interesting on the QB front.... Look at how many QBs were thought to be their team's savior over the past few years to flop or at least regress significantly lately. 

Listen, if teams want to give up on Sam Darnold or Daniel Jones, the Vikings should be very interested. Those guys can play, they just need a better cast. 

You mean just like Cousins?

No more cast offs or band aids please,  let's draft our QB of the future and let him learn behind Kirk since we are stuck with his horrible contract anyway.  Spend the next few drafts rebuilding the OL and DL and we are off!

Cousins had already proven himself to some extent, its why Minnesota went after him. It was a pretty good team trying to get to the elite level. Sam Darnold is only 23 years old....Daniel Jones the same. If the teams are truly interested in moving on from them and they draft a QB high in next Spring's draft, you could get either relatively inexpensively. Is a 23 year old really a cast off or band aid at the QB spot in the NFL? IMO, it would be worth a shot, especially since they can sit behind Kirk until his contract becomes not so cap hellish for releasing him. I think it could be an option.

Yes, I'd prefer and LOVE to draft a QB and let him sit behind Kirk as you mention. Draft OL and DL, absolutely. My concern is the Vikings are going to end up winning enough to put them out of that probability for the top 3 QBs (Lawrence, Fields or Lance). Its a big drop-off to the next tier. And they really don't have the draft capital to move up without that #2 pick.

Cousins has proven that he needs a strong supporting cast to perform at a high level,  he cant over come inconsistent OL play and extend plays with his legs either by shifting in the pocket or by escaping the pressure.  Honestly he is about as bad as it comes in avoiding the sack.  I know those kids have had a rough start to their careers and location plays a large part of that,  but I dont want kids that come in already hearing footsteps or feeling like they have to carry the team on their shoulders.  

If we are really going to start over,  lets move Harry, Rudolph, Thielen, and a couple others before the trade deadline and get some draft picks or other young talents.  No reason to hang onto guys that will be past their primes when the rebuild is finished.  Let not half ass this,  lets go all in on a rebuild.   Hell maybe if we show Cousins every intention of moving on he will agree to rework his nasty ass contract in order to be able to be shipped out as well?  Then we could grab one of the guys from your list to compete with our draft pick and have a real QB competition for a couple years.

I agree with you, on the fence about moving Thielen though. Plenty of guys to move around and create cap space for free agents. We do have a lot of young talent so might as well embrace it and knock off the mediocrity 

Go ahead, VikeFans....give it your best shot.

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/2968989/report-suggests-the-49ers-might-are-considering-moving-on-from-jimmy-garoppolo

Right now I would offer Cousins and our first round pick for their water boy.

https://thevikingage.com/2020/10/13/kirk-cousins-minnesota-vikings-trade-san-francisco-49ers/

@"StickyBun" said: This please:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2021-nfl-mock-draft-saints-replace-drew-brees-washington-goes-back-to-qb-well-cowboys-add-defense/

Imagine what this offense looks like with a QB that can move in and out of the pocket and create with his feet.  I dont think Lance is near the passer that Cousins is,  but Cosuins leaves a lot of drives short with bad sacks or rushed passes that i don't see more confident running QBs make.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said: This please:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2021-nfl-mock-draft-saints-replace-drew-brees-washington-goes-back-to-qb-well-cowboys-add-defense/

If that were to happen I bet the Vikings lobby the NFL for no future pre season games.  

Imagine what this offense looks like with a QB that can move in and out of the pocket and create with his feet.  I dont think Lance is near the passer that Cousins is,  but Cosuins leaves a lot of drives short with bad sacks or rushed passes that i don't see more confident running QBs make.

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said: This please:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2021-nfl-mock-draft-saints-replace-drew-brees-washington-goes-back-to-qb-well-cowboys-add-defense/

If that were to happen I bet the Vikings lobby the NFL for no future pre season games.  

Imagine what this offense looks like with a QB that can move in and out of the pocket and create with his feet.  I dont think Lance is near the passer that Cousins is,  but Cosuins leaves a lot of drives short with bad sacks or rushed passes that i don't see more confident running QBs make.

Oh for sure Lance isn't as accurate as Cousins. But hopefully he can progress and get better there like Josh Allen did with Buffalo. Allen was incredibly inaccurate in college but he's worked hard on it and has improved greatly. Look at what a big, strong armed, mobile QB can do for you around the league. Even Ryan Tannehill. That guy is like a different QB than in Miami. But he's now very confident and you can see it. 

I don't dislike Cousins, I just feel he's limited. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said: This please:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2021-nfl-mock-draft-saints-replace-drew-brees-washington-goes-back-to-qb-well-cowboys-add-defense/

If that were to happen I bet the Vikings lobby the NFL for no future pre season games.  

Imagine what this offense looks like with a QB that can move in and out of the pocket and create with his feet.  I dont think Lance is near the passer that Cousins is,  but Cosuins leaves a lot of drives short with bad sacks or rushed passes that i don't see more confident running QBs make.

Oh for sure Lance isn't as accurate as Cousins. But hopefully he can progress and get better there like Josh Allen did with Buffalo. Allen was incredibly inaccurate in college but he's worked hard on it and has improved greatly. Look at what a big, strong armed, mobile QB can do for you around the league. Even Ryan Tannehill. That guy is like a different QB than in Miami. But he's now very confident and you can see it. 

I don't dislike Cousins, I just feel he's limited. 

Did you see that 35 yard laser Allen threw last night to yeldon for the TD?  That was impressive. 

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said: This please:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2021-nfl-mock-draft-saints-replace-drew-brees-washington-goes-back-to-qb-well-cowboys-add-defense/

If that were to happen I bet the Vikings lobby the NFL for no future pre season games.  

Imagine what this offense looks like with a QB that can move in and out of the pocket and create with his feet.  I dont think Lance is near the passer that Cousins is,  but Cosuins leaves a lot of drives short with bad sacks or rushed passes that i don't see more confident running QBs make.

Oh for sure Lance isn't as accurate as Cousins. But hopefully he can progress and get better there like Josh Allen did with Buffalo. Allen was incredibly inaccurate in college but he's worked hard on it and has improved greatly. Look at what a big, strong armed, mobile QB can do for you around the league. Even Ryan Tannehill. That guy is like a different QB than in Miami. But he's now very confident and you can see it. 

I don't dislike Cousins, I just feel he's limited. 

Did you see that 35 yard laser Allen threw last night to yeldon for the TD?  That was impressive. 

Very. Allen is like Mahomes-lite. Buffalo's coaching staff is giddy over his development since drafting him. These guys CAN be coached up coming from a raw state.....not all of them, of course, but their chances go up when handled properly. 

I just want the Vikings to have a guy in that same kind of vein. Cousins is not going anywhere in 2021, so draft a guy NOW in the Spring and let him sit for at least one year. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said: This please:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2021-nfl-mock-draft-saints-replace-drew-brees-washington-goes-back-to-qb-well-cowboys-add-defense/

If that were to happen I bet the Vikings lobby the NFL for no future pre season games.  

Imagine what this offense looks like with a QB that can move in and out of the pocket and create with his feet.  I dont think Lance is near the passer that Cousins is,  but Cosuins leaves a lot of drives short with bad sacks or rushed passes that i don't see more confident running QBs make.

Oh for sure Lance isn't as accurate as Cousins. But hopefully he can progress and get better there like Josh Allen did with Buffalo. Allen was incredibly inaccurate in college but he's worked hard on it and has improved greatly. Look at what a big, strong armed, mobile QB can do for you around the league. Even Ryan Tannehill. That guy is like a different QB than in Miami. But he's now very confident and you can see it. 

I don't dislike Cousins, I just feel he's limited. 

Did you see that 35 yard laser Allen threw last night to yeldon for the TD?  That was impressive. 

Very. Allen is like Mahomes-lite. Buffalo's coaching staff is giddy over his development since drafting him. These guys CAN be coached up coming from a raw state.....not all of them, of course, but their chances go up when handled properly. 

I just want the Vikings to have a guy in that same kind of vein. Cousins is not going anywhere in 2021, so draft a guy NOW in the Spring and let him sit for at least one year. 

the way I read cousins deal... hes not going anywhere for 2022 either.  It looks to me that we either cut him after this year and eat the 41 million cap hit,  or we keep him for 21 which will automatically then guarantee his 22 money.   I am not reading that correctly?

@"Jor-El" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said: This please:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2021-nfl-mock-draft-saints-replace-drew-brees-washington-goes-back-to-qb-well-cowboys-add-defense/

If that were to happen I bet the Vikings lobby the NFL for no future pre season games.  

Imagine what this offense looks like with a QB that can move in and out of the pocket and create with his feet.  I dont think Lance is near the passer that Cousins is,  but Cosuins leaves a lot of drives short with bad sacks or rushed passes that i don't see more confident running QBs make.

Oh for sure Lance isn't as accurate as Cousins. But hopefully he can progress and get better there like Josh Allen did with Buffalo. Allen was incredibly inaccurate in college but he's worked hard on it and has improved greatly. Look at what a big, strong armed, mobile QB can do for you around the league. Even Ryan Tannehill. That guy is like a different QB than in Miami. But he's now very confident and you can see it. 

I don't dislike Cousins, I just feel he's limited. 

Did you see that 35 yard laser Allen threw last night to yeldon for the TD?  That was impressive. 

Very. Allen is like Mahomes-lite. Buffalo's coaching staff is giddy over his development since drafting him. These guys CAN be coached up coming from a raw state.....not all of them, of course, but their chances go up when handled properly. 

I just want the Vikings to have a guy in that same kind of vein. Cousins is not going anywhere in 2021, so draft a guy NOW in the Spring and let him sit for at least one year. 

the way I read cousins deal... hes not going anywhere for 2022 either.  It looks to me that we either cut him after this year and eat the 41 million cap hit,  or we keep him for 21 which will automatically then guarantee his 22 money.   I am not reading that correctly?

I don't think you're reading it wrong. Personally I love the idea of Trey Lance as a Viking, maybe as much as the unlikely fantasy of Trevor Lawrence...but I just don't see it happening unless the Wilfs dump Spielman and Zimmer. Spielman has never had a real QB competition, has only had a guy around to "groom" if it was for a very short period with intent to start him soon. In fact, the only time was with Matt Cassel, who was an obvious "bridge QB" to Bridgewater. Can he really say, "Hey Zygi, turns out Cousins was the wrong guy to lead us to a Super Bowl, but let me choose another rookie QB and just keep Kirk as a bridge for $56M over the next two seasons"..?
Sorry, I just think if the Wilfs are that dumb, we should forget them ever maneuvering the Vikings to a championship. If they want to rebuild, the time to do it is right after this season, show Cousins the door and eat that cap hit and start over. If they retain Cousins/Zimmer/Spielman, I expect it will be "one more try to win now!" and they'll draft a DT that Zimmer thinks will push his defense over the top.

"Kurt Scrubkins" He's the best!

When I read articles or theories about the 49ers or any team trading for Cousins, I think of Andy Dalton. They are the same age, very similar careers in terms of stats, wins, and playoff wins (or lack).

If a team could pick up Dalton as a waiver / free agent, as the Cowboys did...why would anyone give the Vikings a high draft pick for Cousins?

Cousins is fools gold! He has an arm that can make all the throws and great accuracy. But he is slow to make his decisions and ends up holding the ball too long. That doesn't help a poor offensive line get any better. He is also risk averse and will take the check down rather than take a risk at times.
This leads to good QB stats but not always wins. He can't carry or elevate the team. The team has to be great around him to be successful.
I think he is a good QB; but not championship caliber.
I thought picking up Cousins was a mistake. Especially, considering the salary impact. 
I realize they would have to of spent a lot of draft capital to snag a QB in the draft, but I wish they had. 
Now they are stuck with this mess primarily due to the Cousins contract.
I hope they prove me wrong, but I just can't see it working out. And if it doesn't, Zimmer and Spielman should both follow Cousins out the door.