Re-sign Anthony Harris?
I like Harris. I love interceptions. I think it's great to have a safety pair so highly ranked. AND - I bitched about Andrew Sendejo as the weak spot of our defense all the time he was here.
But...
Do you think our defense was significantly worse from 2015-17 with Sendejo starting instead of Harris? Do you think a safety next to Smith is worth +$10M per year? (Harris is valued at $13.8M by Spotrac FWIW.) Do you think we should spend that money on him instead of at OG, OT, DT, or CB?
I'll say a very clear "No" to all of the above. So unless Brzezinski can pull some magical deal where Harris costs the team less than $5M a year, I would sadly let him leave, and hold my nose and let Sendejo have the job (and spend a couple of day 3 picks on developmental safety prospects). Zimmer has repeatedly tried to convert college CBs like Jack Tochco and others to safety, so maybe he'll try Rhodes there.
The Zimmer defense depends on 1 do-it-all safety, Smith, and another guy who follows assignments. I personally felt that Sendejo blew it at times but never heard Zimmer call him out. He seems to be ok.
What the Zimmer defense does need are CBs, like 4-5 for any season, and that area is in trouble. Some, like my esteemed debate opponent FSUVike, have suggested we could fill the CB holes with a couple of veteran free agents. Well, I scanned the available UFA corners a bit, and think I have identified 2 who could be very good fits in the Zimmer system:
Mackensie Alexander
Trae Waynes
I know, Waynes hasn't lived up 11th-overall-pick expectations. But he was at least above-average from 2017-18. Alexander struggled his first 2 years here but has become a good nickel CB. And these guys both have a big credential: 4+ years each learning the Zimmer defense. Hasn't every corner, if not every defensive player, struggled to figure it out for their first couple years here? The system here isn't easy to learn, which makes Waynes and Alexander more valuable to the Vikings than any other team, and far more valuable than other FAs like Bradley Roby, who would probably have a bad first season here the way Captain Munnerlyn did.
Vikings might be able to sign both Waynes and Alexander for just a little more than Harris alone. Harris will get us a nice comp pick if he signs for a huge deal elsewhere. We might even bring him back in a couple years if it turns out he's not able to duplicate his 2019 season in, say, Cleveland.
@"Canthony" said:absolutely, in a time when you could ride a receiver down the field and knock them off a route... but that dont fly anymore and he is struggling with playing off coverage and hands off.@"JimmyinSD" said:I am a big FSU fan and watched a lot of Rhodes. He didn't play a ton of zone though. He just wasn't that type of player. Coming in I believe he was a big press guy. I thought that is where he played his best.@"Canthony" said:i think he sometimes has convenient injuries. if he knows the camera is on him for the wrong reasons he often comes up limping... but as soon as he is able to make a play he is hopping and moving like nothing is bothering him. kind of like the guy that always cramped up or tweaked something right before conditioning at the end of practices, but was all smiles in the locker room.@"JimmyinSD" said:That could very well be. He could be trying to think too much and that would make you play slower for sure. I also think his hamstring was far worse than what we were led on to believe. He still struggled with it last year.@"Canthony" said:I at times wondered this year about Rhodes smarts and his ability to play multiple schemes. He excelled when he was asked to just man up and be physical, yes his skills have dropped off, but he seems to be confused a lot in the zone looks that Zimmer was trying to employ last year. Does he have the mental acumen to keep his roles straight in more complex situations? I am not saying the dude is a post, just wondering if he is struggling with the scheme and that is making him play slower overall and making his physical limitation look worse than they are.@"JimmyinSD" said:I think that Waynes is pretty much a zone corner as well. I thought it was due to Rhodes' limitations last couple years and Waynes inability to cover man. It will be interesting to see what he goes to with new starting CBs that can cover man and play press.@"Canthony" said:Zimmer is using a lot more zone himself these days, rule changes that emphasize not allowing as much (any) contact after 5 yards has really handcuffed Zimmers aggressive man approach.@"FSUVike" said: Right? The 9ers have Old Man Sherman and what, exactly at Corner? But they do have two very good, versatile Safeties in Ward and Tartt. And LBs that can cover. And a killer pass rush. Doesn't Sherman play zone 98% of the time? That is a bit different than what Zimmer asks for in his defense. I think Sherman would get toasted in this offense.
@"JimmyinSD" said:I think towards the end of the year they were starting to let players play more in PI department. At least that is what I thought@"Canthony" said:absolutely, in a time when you could ride a receiver down the field and knock them off a route... but that dont fly anymore and he is struggling with playing off coverage and hands off.@"JimmyinSD" said:I am a big FSU fan and watched a lot of Rhodes. He didn't play a ton of zone though. He just wasn't that type of player. Coming in I believe he was a big press guy. I thought that is where he played his best.@"Canthony" said:i think he sometimes has convenient injuries. if he knows the camera is on him for the wrong reasons he often comes up limping... but as soon as he is able to make a play he is hopping and moving like nothing is bothering him. kind of like the guy that always cramped up or tweaked something right before conditioning at the end of practices, but was all smiles in the locker room.@"JimmyinSD" said:That could very well be. He could be trying to think too much and that would make you play slower for sure. I also think his hamstring was far worse than what we were led on to believe. He still struggled with it last year.@"Canthony" said:I at times wondered this year about Rhodes smarts and his ability to play multiple schemes. He excelled when he was asked to just man up and be physical, yes his skills have dropped off, but he seems to be confused a lot in the zone looks that Zimmer was trying to employ last year. Does he have the mental acumen to keep his roles straight in more complex situations? I am not saying the dude is a post, just wondering if he is struggling with the scheme and that is making him play slower overall and making his physical limitation look worse than they are.@"JimmyinSD" said:I think that Waynes is pretty much a zone corner as well. I thought it was due to Rhodes' limitations last couple years and Waynes inability to cover man. It will be interesting to see what he goes to with new starting CBs that can cover man and play press.@"Canthony" said:Zimmer is using a lot more zone himself these days, rule changes that emphasize not allowing as much (any) contact after 5 yards has really handcuffed Zimmers aggressive man approach.@"FSUVike" said: Right? The 9ers have Old Man Sherman and what, exactly at Corner? But they do have two very good, versatile Safeties in Ward and Tartt. And LBs that can cover. And a killer pass rush. Doesn't Sherman play zone 98% of the time? That is a bit different than what Zimmer asks for in his defense. I think Sherman would get toasted in this offense.
https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-sports/vikings-offseason-preview-how-can-the-vikings-keep-anthony-harris
@"BarrNone55" said: https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-sports/vikings-offseason-preview-how-can-the-vikings-keep-anthony-harrisReading a lot of great things about Harris. 12th best player in the NFL. Vikings have the best safety tandem in the NFL and no one else is even close.
It sure does beg the question, so why did our pass defense suck so bad? Best safeties in the NFL. I'd put our edge rushers in the top 5, too. I think most would. And our linebackers in pass coverage among the best as well.
Was Rhodes and our interior rush SO bad that none of that mattered? Something is just not adding up.
I have a feeling we're all going to wake up (hopefully) in 2030 and say "wow, remember the late teens and all that talent we had? Best safeties, top WR duo, great back, top rated QB, all pro edge rushers, all pro linebackers....and we just couldn't fucking win." I don't think most fans realize just how unusual it is to have this much talent on a roster.
Why is it that this team can't seem to mitigate weaknesses like other teams? Sure we need better pass protection, but I've seen teams win Super Bowls with worse offensive lines. 49ers kicked our ass with a worse IOL than ours. Chiefs won a Super Bowl with an interior line consisting of a journeyman left guard on his 4th team, 6th round right guard, and a 7th round center on his 4th team. Yeah, I know, Mahomes. But still....
We have THREE 1st rounders at corner. With the exception of Richard Sherman, who is two years older than our "too old" corner, all of the corners who played in the Super Bowl are league average players on their 2nd and 3rd teams. But we need 1st rounders everywhere?
I fear that we can keep and add all the talent in the world and it's not going to matter. Talent ain't the problem. Rant over.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"BarrNone55" said: https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-sports/vikings-offseason-preview-how-can-the-vikings-keep-anthony-harris Reading a lot of great things about Harris. 12th best player in the NFL. Vikings have the best safety tandem in the NFL and no one else is even close.It sure does beg the question, so why did our pass defense suck so bad? Best safeties in the NFL. I'd put our edge rushers in the top 5, too. I think most would. And our linebackers in pass coverage among the best as well.
Was Rhodes and our interior rush SO bad that none of that mattered? Something is just not adding up.
I have a feeling we're all going to wake up (hopefully) in 2030 and say "wow, remember the late teens and all that talent we had? Best safeties, top WR duo, great back, top rated QB, all pro edge rushers, all pro linebackers....and we just couldn't fucking win." I don't think most fans realize just how unusual it is to have this much talent on a roster.
Why is it that this team can't seem to mitigate weaknesses like other teams? Sure we need better pass protection, but I've seen teams win Super Bowls with worse offensive lines. 49ers kicked our ass with a worse IOL than ours. Chiefs won a Super Bowl with an interior line consisting of a journeyman left guard on his 4th team, 6th round right guard, and a 7th round center on his 4th team. Yeah, I know, Mahomes. But still....
We have THREE 1st rounders at corner. With the exception of Richard Sherman, who is two years older than our "too old" corner, all of the corners who played in the Super Bowl are league average players on their 2nd and 3rd teams. But we need 1st rounders everywhere?
I fear that we can keep and add all the talent in the world and it's not going to matter. Talent ain't the problem. Rant over.
If its not an issue of talent, then what else is there? Motivation and Scheme seem to be whats left and that goes back to fingers pointing at coaching and GM IMO.
It absolutely boggles the mind whats happened with the corners and the D in totality when you consider that cap allocations, draft capital and how they show-up when it matters the most...
I agree with MB, something aint adding-up...It wasn't just last year either.
Think about those playoff games, think about that home Chicago game from two seasons ago and that infamous 4th quarter performance they left on the field.
We're starting to tread into subjective territory now. Player mental make-up, scheme etc.
Leber is right - there isn't strong player leadership on that side of the ball. Not everybody has to be a fiery leader ala Sherman style, but...And thats just part of it.
I wonder how much the coaching changes will improve things? We'll see.
I'm afraid the thing on top of Dom's head is going to be a distraction.
The Dom jokes should keep us all satiated with laughter this year no doubt.
Fan-wise we want clear, simple answers. One good causal variable might be player age too. Look at the "big knockers" on the D. How many are 30 or over now?
@"MaroonBells" said:@"BarrNone55" said: https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-sports/vikings-offseason-preview-how-can-the-vikings-keep-anthony-harris Reading a lot of great things about Harris. 12th best player in the NFL. Vikings have the best safety tandem in the NFL and no one else is even close.It sure does beg the question, so why did our pass defense suck so bad? Best safeties in the NFL. I'd put our edge rushers in the top 5, too. I think most would. And our linebackers in pass coverage among the best as well.
Was Rhodes and our interior rush SO bad that none of that mattered? Something is just not adding up.
I have a feeling we're all going to wake up (hopefully) in 2030 and say "wow, remember the late teens and all that talent we had? Best safeties, top WR duo, great back, top rated QB, all pro edge rushers, all pro linebackers....and we just couldn't fucking win." I don't think most fans realize just how unusual it is to have this much talent on a roster.
Why is it that this team can't seem to mitigate weaknesses like other teams? Sure we need better pass protection, but I've seen teams win Super Bowls with worse offensive lines. 49ers kicked our ass with a worse IOL than ours. Chiefs won a Super Bowl with an interior line consisting of a journeyman left guard on his 4th team, 6th round right guard, and a 7th round center on his 4th team. Yeah, I know, Mahomes. But still....
We have THREE 1st rounders at corner. With the exception of Richard Sherman, who is two years older than our "too old" corner, all of the corners who played in the Super Bowl are league average players on their 2nd and 3rd teams. But we need 1st rounders everywhere?
I fear that we can keep and add all the talent in the world and it's not going to matter. Talent ain't the problem. Rant over.
I think some of it still comes back to the end of the 2017 season. There were some scheme flaws that seem to have snowballed a bit both based on teams seeing it on tape and how the game has become so pass heavy. Looking purely at pass coverage, teams learned that the Vikings were hosed if they go them moving laterally. Enter all of the misdirection and mesh concepts. In the nickel based on alignment you basically are asking either Mac or Trae to carry a guy the entire length of the field if the linebackers are up in the A-gaps. Not a winning combination in the world of pick plays. Some of it had to do with the defense over-pursuing too. The good thing about this scheme is that you don't have to play with two high safeties since its a layered man/zone concept. Xavier was typically the only guy who would take a guy in man. That also frees Harry to play more downhill at the LOS.Enter the 2018 season and they tried to implement more of a cover-3 feel to take away the middle of the field. That unfortunately wasn't working early and they reverted back to a lot of their old concepts. In cover-3 the key for the outside corners is to hold the outside and use the safeties as inside help. Couldn't quite figure that out. This was the start/end of the A-gap looks Zimmer has always been known for. Why? You need more safety help in zone concepts and Harrison couldn't be a joker at the LOS quite as often. In their original "base scheme" they were better than 2017 but Sheldon Richardson was key in that. The inside pressure really helped the crosser's but still led to us being exposed between the hashes in the middle of the field.
In 2019 they re-explored the zone look defense but instead settled on a cover-4 variant. That way they could still implement some man on the outsides and more or less hide man/zone looks a little better. In cover-4 you still lose some of Harrison's functionality in the box but allow the LB's to play more freely. This fixed the issues they've had in the middle of the field during the 2018 campaign but hurt them on the outsides. In cover-4 the corners don't have inside help and often don't have help over the top. As you all know, that didn't help a certain corner. They also seemed to struggle out of bunch formations, especially with motion. But I'm still looking at that a little more.
Point being is that talent isn't the issue, like you mentioned. The level of talent also set the teams floor pretty high when compared with the rest of the league. Since 2017 they've really done a nice job of patching their holes the subsequent year. The issue is that they've always opened a new can of worms in the process. I also think that as they've changed the scheme over time it's impacted some players who were hand selected for the 2017 scheme vs. what it's evolved to. I think Capers will helps since they haven't been able to find consistent pressure after moving away from the A-gap looks. That'll be his project. That indirectly will help coverage... but something needs to change on the back-end and we're going to see a makeover this off-season. Free agency will be our first insight on whether they're going to continue with zone looks or revert back to their previous scheme.
@"JimmyinSD" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"BarrNone55" said: https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-sports/vikings-offseason-preview-how-can-the-vikings-keep-anthony-harris Reading a lot of great things about Harris. 12th best player in the NFL. Vikings have the best safety tandem in the NFL and no one else is even close.It sure does beg the question, so why did our pass defense suck so bad? Best safeties in the NFL. I'd put our edge rushers in the top 5, too. I think most would. And our linebackers in pass coverage among the best as well.
Was Rhodes and our interior rush SO bad that none of that mattered? Something is just not adding up.
I have a feeling we're all going to wake up (hopefully) in 2030 and say "wow, remember the late teens and all that talent we had? Best safeties, top WR duo, great back, top rated QB, all pro edge rushers, all pro linebackers....and we just couldn't fucking win." I don't think most fans realize just how unusual it is to have this much talent on a roster.
Why is it that this team can't seem to mitigate weaknesses like other teams? Sure we need better pass protection, but I've seen teams win Super Bowls with worse offensive lines. 49ers kicked our ass with a worse IOL than ours. Chiefs won a Super Bowl with an interior line consisting of a journeyman left guard on his 4th team, 6th round right guard, and a 7th round center on his 4th team. Yeah, I know, Mahomes. But still....
We have THREE 1st rounders at corner. With the exception of Richard Sherman, who is two years older than our "too old" corner, all of the corners who played in the Super Bowl are league average players on their 2nd and 3rd teams. But we need 1st rounders everywhere?
I fear that we can keep and add all the talent in the world and it's not going to matter. Talent ain't the problem. Rant over.
If its not an issue of talent, then what else is there? Motivation and Scheme seem to be whats left and that goes back to fingers pointing at coaching and GM IMO.
Well you're half right.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"BarrNone55" said: https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-sports/vikings-offseason-preview-how-can-the-vikings-keep-anthony-harris Reading a lot of great things about Harris. 12th best player in the NFL. Vikings have the best safety tandem in the NFL and no one else is even close.It sure does beg the question, so why did our pass defense suck so bad? Best safeties in the NFL. I'd put our edge rushers in the top 5, too. I think most would. And our linebackers in pass coverage among the best as well.
Was Rhodes and our interior rush SO bad that none of that mattered? Something is just not adding up.
I have a feeling we're all going to wake up (hopefully) in 2030 and say "wow, remember the late teens and all that talent we had? Best safeties, top WR duo, great back, top rated QB, all pro edge rushers, all pro linebackers....and we just couldn't fucking win." I don't think most fans realize just how unusual it is to have this much talent on a roster.
Why is it that this team can't seem to mitigate weaknesses like other teams? Sure we need better pass protection, but I've seen teams win Super Bowls with worse offensive lines. 49ers kicked our ass with a worse IOL than ours. Chiefs won a Super Bowl with an interior line consisting of a journeyman left guard on his 4th team, 6th round right guard, and a 7th round center on his 4th team. Yeah, I know, Mahomes. But still....
We have THREE 1st rounders at corner. With the exception of Richard Sherman, who is two years older than our "too old" corner, all of the corners who played in the Super Bowl are league average players on their 2nd and 3rd teams. But we need 1st rounders everywhere?
I fear that we can keep and add all the talent in the world and it's not going to matter. Talent ain't the problem. Rant over.
If its not an issue of talent, then what else is there? Motivation and Scheme seem to be whats left and that goes back to fingers pointing at coaching and GM IMO.
Well you're half right.
The GM isnt to blame necessarily for the lack of fire (unless he is just drafting vanilla?) and for the most part I've never really heard to many GMs dictating scheme, but the GM is still on the hook if its a coaching matter IMO as he is the one that typically hires and fires the HC (with owner approval of course)
@"MaroonBells" said:@"BarrNone55" said: https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-sports/vikings-offseason-preview-how-can-the-vikings-keep-anthony-harris Reading a lot of great things about Harris. 12th best player in the NFL. Vikings have the best safety tandem in the NFL and no one else is even close.It sure does beg the question, so why did our pass defense suck so bad? Best safeties in the NFL. I'd put our edge rushers in the top 5, too. I think most would. And our linebackers in pass coverage among the best as well.
Was Rhodes and our interior rush SO bad that none of that mattered? Something is just not adding up.
I have a feeling we're all going to wake up (hopefully) in 2030 and say "wow, remember the late teens and all that talent we had? Best safeties, top WR duo, great back, top rated QB, all pro edge rushers, all pro linebackers....and we just couldn't fucking win." I don't think most fans realize just how unusual it is to have this much talent on a roster.
Why is it that this team can't seem to mitigate weaknesses like other teams? Sure we need better pass protection, but I've seen teams win Super Bowls with worse offensive lines. 49ers kicked our ass with a worse IOL than ours. Chiefs won a Super Bowl with an interior line consisting of a journeyman left guard on his 4th team, 6th round right guard, and a 7th round center on his 4th team. Yeah, I know, Mahomes. But still....
We have THREE 1st rounders at corner. With the exception of Richard Sherman, who is two years older than our "too old" corner, all of the corners who played in the Super Bowl are league average players on their 2nd and 3rd teams. But we need 1st rounders everywhere?
I fear that we can keep and add all the talent in the world and it's not going to matter. Talent ain't the problem. Rant over.
Interesting post and I agree.
This is why I'm highly dubious that upgrading the OL and upgrading DT this offseason will somehow produce better results. The other contenders are going to add pieces too! Incremental improvement will probably not make us better than the Chiefs.Maybe our coaching shakeup helps, but all of the promoted guys were in house this past season too.
Like you, I think Rick Spielman is a good GM. And for the reasons you mentioned, I have been advocating for the Vikings to draft a rookie QB. That's my "cure" suggestion, but your alternate suggestion of speculating that the coaches aren't maximizing the talent also has merit.
I'm all for upgrading the team however we can but with the talent already in house, and aging, I do not believe that a few bandaids will get us over the hump. A more drastic shakeup (such as a new QB) is needed, in my opinion.
@"JimmyinSD" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"BarrNone55" said: https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-sports/vikings-offseason-preview-how-can-the-vikings-keep-anthony-harris Reading a lot of great things about Harris. 12th best player in the NFL. Vikings have the best safety tandem in the NFL and no one else is even close.It sure does beg the question, so why did our pass defense suck so bad? Best safeties in the NFL. I'd put our edge rushers in the top 5, too. I think most would. And our linebackers in pass coverage among the best as well.
Was Rhodes and our interior rush SO bad that none of that mattered? Something is just not adding up.
I have a feeling we're all going to wake up (hopefully) in 2030 and say "wow, remember the late teens and all that talent we had? Best safeties, top WR duo, great back, top rated QB, all pro edge rushers, all pro linebackers....and we just couldn't fucking win." I don't think most fans realize just how unusual it is to have this much talent on a roster.
Why is it that this team can't seem to mitigate weaknesses like other teams? Sure we need better pass protection, but I've seen teams win Super Bowls with worse offensive lines. 49ers kicked our ass with a worse IOL than ours. Chiefs won a Super Bowl with an interior line consisting of a journeyman left guard on his 4th team, 6th round right guard, and a 7th round center on his 4th team. Yeah, I know, Mahomes. But still....
We have THREE 1st rounders at corner. With the exception of Richard Sherman, who is two years older than our "too old" corner, all of the corners who played in the Super Bowl are league average players on their 2nd and 3rd teams. But we need 1st rounders everywhere?
I fear that we can keep and add all the talent in the world and it's not going to matter. Talent ain't the problem. Rant over.
If its not an issue of talent, then what else is there? Motivation and Scheme seem to be whats left and that goes back to fingers pointing at coaching and GM IMO.
See, this is what really bugs me. Fans keep putting those two together. And that's the biggest mistake we could possibly make. Like Modell firing Belichick level of mistake. If I'm Zygi and Mark and Rick and Rob and George....I have to be wondering, what in the actual FUCK do you need?We've given you one of the best stadiums and practice facilities in the league. You ask for free agents, you typically got them. But, no, we don't spend our money foolishly. We operate with incredible efficiency. Top 5 team in terms of dead money. And don't even get me started on the draft. You say you need better offensive linemen and better corners. While the 49ers and Chiefs are playing in the Super Bowl with offensive lines and secondaries made from the scrap heap, you're sitting at home with four 1st rounders in your secondary. Oh, that's not even counting the All Pro UDFA and the 2nd round slot corner. And it's not like any of these have been busts. There's probably not a team in the NFL who has fewer draft busts than the Vikings. About half of players drafted in rounds 1-3 bust in the NFL. Since you've been here, you've been given Bradbury, Irv, Mattison, Hughes, O'Neill, Cook, Kendricks, Barr, Waynes, Hunter, Alexander. Sure, idiot fans who don't know anything about the draft complain about the two busts (Treadwell and Elflein), but you're smarter than that. You recognize that this isn't just good drafting, this is RIDICULOUS drafting. Oh, and did I mention the late rounders and undrafted players you've been given? From Diggs and Thielen to Ant Harris and Mike Boone, Odenigbo, Kearse, Weatherly, Olabisi, etc. You think this is common? Look around the NFL.
I extend Rick. And give him a lifetime contract. And a fucking medal. I don't extend Zimmer. Problem is, he is a pretty good coach, probably a top half coach in the NFL. But I think he has fundamental problems and I don't know what they are. It's just for WHATEVER reason (scheme, motivation, assistants, game plan issues), his team isn't ready in too many games.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"BarrNone55" said: https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-sports/vikings-offseason-preview-how-can-the-vikings-keep-anthony-harris Reading a lot of great things about Harris. 12th best player in the NFL. Vikings have the best safety tandem in the NFL and no one else is even close.It sure does beg the question, so why did our pass defense suck so bad? Best safeties in the NFL. I'd put our edge rushers in the top 5, too. I think most would. And our linebackers in pass coverage among the best as well.
Was Rhodes and our interior rush SO bad that none of that mattered? Something is just not adding up.
I have a feeling we're all going to wake up (hopefully) in 2030 and say "wow, remember the late teens and all that talent we had? Best safeties, top WR duo, great back, top rated QB, all pro edge rushers, all pro linebackers....and we just couldn't fucking win." I don't think most fans realize just how unusual it is to have this much talent on a roster.
Why is it that this team can't seem to mitigate weaknesses like other teams? Sure we need better pass protection, but I've seen teams win Super Bowls with worse offensive lines. 49ers kicked our ass with a worse IOL than ours. Chiefs won a Super Bowl with an interior line consisting of a journeyman left guard on his 4th team, 6th round right guard, and a 7th round center on his 4th team. Yeah, I know, Mahomes. But still....
We have THREE 1st rounders at corner. With the exception of Richard Sherman, who is two years older than our "too old" corner, all of the corners who played in the Super Bowl are league average players on their 2nd and 3rd teams. But we need 1st rounders everywhere?
I fear that we can keep and add all the talent in the world and it's not going to matter. Talent ain't the problem. Rant over.
If its not an issue of talent, then what else is there? Motivation and Scheme seem to be whats left and that goes back to fingers pointing at coaching and GM IMO.
See, this is what really bugs me. Fans keep putting those two together. And that's the biggest mistake we could possibly make. Like Modell firing Belichick level of mistake. If I'm Zygi and Mark and Rick and Rob and George....I have to be wondering, what in the actual FUCK do you need?We've given you one of the best stadiums and practice facilities in the league. You ask for free agents, you typically got them. But, no, we don't spend our money foolishly. We operate with incredible efficiency. Top 5 team in terms of dead money. And don't even get me started on the draft. You say you need better offensive linemen and better corners. While the 49ers and Chiefs are playing in the Super Bowl with offensive lines and secondaries made from the scrap heap, you're sitting at home with four 1st rounders in your secondary. Oh, that's not even counting the All Pro UDFA and the 2nd round slot corner. And it's not like any of these have been busts. There's probably not a team in the NFL who has fewer draft busts than the Vikings. About half of players drafted in rounds 1-3 bust in the NFL. Since you've been here, you've been given Bradbury, Irv, Mattison, Hughes, O'Neill, Cook, Kendricks, Barr, Waynes, Hunter, Alexander. Sure, idiot fans who don't know anything about the draft complain about the two busts (Treadwell and Elflein), but you're smarter than that. You recognize that this isn't just good drafting, this is RIDICULOUS drafting. Oh, and did I mention the late rounders and undrafted players you've been given? From Diggs and Thielen to Ant Harris and Mike Boone, Odenigbo, Kearse, Weatherly, Olabisi, etc. You think this is common? Look around the NFL.
I extend Rick. And give him a lifetime contract. And a fucking medal. I don't extend Zimmer. Problem is, he is a pretty good coach, probably a top half coach in the NFL. But I think he has fundamental problems and I don't know what they are. It's just for WHATEVER reason (scheme, motivation, assistants, game plan issues), his team isn't ready in too many games.
How much of Ricks draft success is him getting help from Zim on identifying defensive players that can be worked with in those later rounds?I dont do anything with either at this point. Zim is wearing thin, but Rick has to convince me that the draft day lightning that he has found with Zimmer is sustainable if Zimmer was gone. And while you and I dont have the answer as to why things arent coming together for Zimmer... RS damn well better know and have an answer for it before I would consider any extension for him.
maybe kubiak can bring draft day insight to the offensive side of the ball that has been lacking under Zimmer?
I strongly disagree with Maroon's assertion that worse Lines have win Super Bowls. Again, do not underestimate the difference between a Below Replacement Level Player and a League Average Player.
Sure, there were no-names and backups on the interiors of both Lines. But they are playing League Average. There wasn't one guy you could single out and go after in every down.
Elf is that guy you scheme to go after on every single down. Green Bay did it. The Bears did it. The 9ers did it. The Chiefs did it.
And Bradbury didn't help. In fact, he was probably wasn't even League Average himself. The difference between Average Guards and Centers with KC and San Francisco is huge compared to shit play from Elf and Bradbury.
And is there a single team in the NFL that gets so much production from its Starters and backups at DE and so little from the DTs? I can't think of one.
Rhodes ranked bottom 5 percent in all of football.
So that's 4 positions where even Average individual performance would greatly upgrade an entire Unit and Side of the Ball. Average Left Guard and Center play, combined with an experienced Playcaller will take this Offense from 8th to Top 5. And the good news here is that Rick, Gary and Rick have already proven they can take a Tier 3 journeyman and get him to play League Average. They just couldn't take an absolute liability and do much with it.
I'm less optimistic on the Defensive side as we just haven't seen any 3Ts get developed and at Minnesota's pick in the 1st there will only be raw guys needing developing available. And Zimmer is really struggling to find the right combination of schemes and player fit to take advantage of his All Pro Safeties.
And yet, still Top 5 in scoring Defense. Not in the same dominating fashion as years past, and showing cracks that point to a continued downturn. But it will likely still be Top 10. Just not good enough to carry a team.
If Rick and Gary get the right piece or two to fix the Line AND Gary still remembers how to make in-game adjustments, something 3 of the last 4 OCs couldn't do, this Offense will improve enough that the Defense won't need to carry them any more.
Great posts. IMO well written opinions with valid points.
DID YOU SEE THAT, NJ? LIFE TIME CONTRACT FOR RICK!
:)
@"BarrNone55" said: DID YOU SEE THAT, NJ? LIFE TIME CONTRACT FOR RICK!:)
PLEASE, dont say his name 2 more times....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot11DMJKhj8
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