Baker On Kyler

JustInTime wrote:

😂

All kidding aside, I just hope QB1 runs with it and never looks back. I mean deserving something as fans means nothing but damn.....we sure do 'deserve' something good as Viking's fans. That's a fact. But that and $6.00 gets you a Starbucks coffee. Sigh.

JustInTime wrote:

https://twitter.com/sleepervikings/status/2074515121930395812

It's hard to disagree with Sherman here, and I think he echoes what a lot of fans and analysts have been saying.

Kyler is the established veteran. McCarthy has just 10 NFL starts under his belt and looked exactly like what he was, a talented rookie coming off a lost season due to injury, showing flashes alongside the expected growing pains.

That's been my biggest frustration all along. Most young quarterbacks get Year 2 to demonstrate the progress they made from Year 1. McCarthy's "rookie season" was anything but normal. He entered it after missing over 600 days of meaningful football, was coming off a season-ending injury, battled additional injuries, dealt with constant offensive line shuffling, and still showed enough flashes to make you want to see what the next step looked like...at least for me, but apparently not a lot of other fans.

Instead, we're potentially pressing pause on that evaluation for another year.

That said, I also agree with JT's point. If Murray wins the job outright, then he earned it and that's ultimately what's best for the Vikings. But if McCarthy wins it, that's an even better outcome because it means the young quarterback developed the way the organization hoped and is ready to lead this team for years to come.

At the end of the day, I care that the Vikings win a Superbowl. I'd prefer it to be with McCarthy, because that means he's our QBOTF, but if it's Murray, thank you for your services, kid and glad you could do it on your childhood team.

Mostly, I’m hoping that we can get several years of competent play and can make the playoffs several years in a row and have a real window.  What I’m most worried about is committing to a guy who then rug pulls us.  Obviously you have to commit to a guy to get off the new QB every year train, but neither Kyler nor JJM have been durable, so even if they survive this year, how well do you feel that they can repeat it year after year.

While I do agree that the best solution is that the best QB is obvious in training camp, and then proceeds to lead the team to a great regular season and beyond.  My second best solution is that I get to see enough games from each QB to make an informed decision going forward.  I think it would be a real bummer if Kyler played all year and you ended up at the end of the season sort of like Darnold, where you still have questions about whether or not he’s the guy or if JJM with another year of seasoning is the better option.  (That said, if that’s the case, I don’t think it’s wrong to sign Kyler to a 3 year contract and keep JJM as a backup just in case)

The K1 situation is a bit blessing and a bit speed bump all at once for QB's and us fans...

I am actually more frustrated now that we let Darnold walk vs when it happened. He's the perfect, big downfield guy with a howitzer and brass balls to throw in tight windows and covered receivers. All the stuff KOC relishes.

I also agree it's potentially frustrating that we may very well end-up with nothing but questions on #9 when the year ends. On the flip side I wish he had shown enough promise last year so that the Vikings didnt even give K1 a second thought this off-season.

To echo most fans, let's hope for a fun & exciting year, a playoff run and real clarity at who is going to steward this team at QB the next 3-5 years.

From people I talked to at the time, Steve Keim, the GM, Kliff Kingsbury, the coach, they didn’t want it in there. Obviously, Kyler wasn’t wanting it, but the way it happened is it got put in. Kyler didn’t think doing four hours of independent study or whatever it was a week mattered, so he was fine doing it. But nobody quite realized the how much it would blow up and how much of a PR disaster it was for everybody, to the fact that they had to pull it within a week.”

Forgot this was pulled within a week. Tempest in a teapot. Only intellectually dishonest people would continue to throw this bull shit out there.

Everything you've posted is purely conjecture and opinion based. I'd take what former players have said and it doesn't paint the best picture of his study habits and leadership. Even the article you just posted was excuse making for him when he was younger and the "debunked" part was the Arizona insider saying he expects (not knows) his study habits improved in the 5 or 6 years since he came into the league.

Actual fact. The Cardinals are paying a buttload of money for him to not be their starting QB. There are legit reasons for that.

I hope the smoke swirling around Kyler dissipates with a new organization and a fresh start.

So, hearing directly from the principals involved is conjecture?

https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/onsi/duped-by-fake-practice-stats-lesean-mccoy-blasts-cocky-kyler-murray

MAD GAINZ wrote:

Everything you've posted is purely conjecture and opinion based. I'd take what former players have said and it doesn't paint the best picture of his study habits and leadership. Even the article you just posted was excuse making for him when he was younger and the "debunked" part was the Arizona insider saying he expects (not knows) his study habits improved in the 5 or 6 years since he came into the league.
Actual fact. The Cardinals are paying a buttload of money for him to not be their starting QB. There are legit reasons for that.
I hope the smoke swirling around Kyler dissipates with a new organization and a fresh start.

Yep. Like I said earlier, nothing is proven nor disproven about Murray. But a pretty clean slate in Minnesota for me until proven otherwise. Pick a narrative and jump on board I guess. I think the Vikings are going to get a focused, more dialed in version of Kyler....and he can be judged on that. He's going to have to get into that playbook and learn it. He needs to perform and help stack Ws. As you mention, another team excised him like a malignant tumor for mucho dinero and that plays into my wait and see attitude.

Its interesting that some seem to lend more credence to Kyler's former teammates/players than JJ's current teammates who rave about him. 🤔

conjecture

/kənˈjek(t)SHər/

Conjecture refers to an opinion, conclusion, or guess formed on the basis of incomplete or uncertain evidence. Essentially, it is a statement or idea believed to be true, but which lacks concrete proof or definitive confirmation. [1, 2, 3]

Just wanted to make sure I understood the word.

Carry on.

JustInTime wrote:

conjecture
/kənˈjek(t)SHər/
Conjecture refers to an opinion, conclusion, or guess formed on the basis of incomplete or uncertain evidence. Essentially, it is a statement or idea believed to be true, but which lacks concrete proof or definitive confirmation. [1, 2, 3]
Just wanted to make sure I understood the word.
Carry on.

Glad you looked it up to show my usage was correct.

“From people I’ve talked to”

Not conjecture.

Thanks for attending my Ted talk.

Canthony wrote:

You were set on your way of thinking with JJ. You just dropped him to follow along with the Murray circle jerk. I respected your strong stance. Following that kind of leadership is why we have the kinds like Mamdani, Ilhan Omar, and Omar Feteh trying to lead a bunch of followers. We will see how "well" that will work out for all of us.

Damn, dude....point to the place on your JD Vance Action Figure where Stickierbuns hurt you...!

Zanary wrote:

Damn, dude....point to the place on your JD Vance Action Figure where Stickierbuns hurt you...!

lol, nah he's ok! 😂

I think wait and see is prudent.

Its like politics in this country now, nobody will change anybodies minds

Good news is rooks report 2 weeks from Sunday!

StickierBuns wrote:

lol, nah he's ok! 😂

Debatable

JustInTime wrote:

“From people I’ve talked to”
Not conjecture.
Thanks for attending my Ted talk.

"They didn't want it in there"... So the fact they pulled it after getting a bunch of media blow back and the coach, GM, and Kyler didn't want it in there means what? I don't see anything saying they thought his study habits were exemplary.

The insider being interviewed goes on to say:

“You know when he was 22, 23. could he have been more studious? I’m sure he could have been, but now he’s you know half decade from that. I’m sure he does better with the studying. you look at anybody’s arc as a person, like in your early 20s, are you going to be the most studious person compared to when you are five years into your career, eight years into your career?

I think he’s naturally gotten better at that stuff. But I don’t think it was ever such an issue that they needed to have something in the contract. I think that was just part of the personality of the owner to kind of want to have a say in what’s going on and to throw his weight around a little bit.”

Sure is a lot of "I'm sure he could" and "I think" answering the question.

I keep reading this narrative that says the Cardinals are paying Kyler Murray $37M to play elsewhere. While this is technically true, it’s a ridiculous oversimplification that ignores the reality of NFL contracts.

When the Cards decided to shut Murray down after his stint on IR, they were 3-9. At this point, Bidwell knew three things: 

1-The team wasn’t going anywhere and that there was a $19.5M contract bonus due Murray in March. If Murray suffered another injury late in the year and could not pass a team physical by the bonus deadline, his future salary would become fully, irrevocably guaranteed. That’s a total of $56M. By shutting Murray down, the front office completely eliminated the nightmare scenario of being forced to pay his massive guarantees due to a late-season injury. 

2-It would signal to the rest of the league that Murray is available, healthy, and ready for a fresh start, protecting whatever baseline trade value might remain. As it turned out, there was no trade value, but this is only because of the contract and the fact that the league knew the Cardinals would have to release him.

3-He was going to fire Gannon and search for a new head coach. Tying an incoming head coach to an expensive, highly specific quarterback is an easy way to scare away top coaching candidates. He wanted to offer the next regime complete roster freedom: “You have a top draft pick to get the guy you want” is infinitely more attractive than forcing a marriage.

^

Well said