Quote: @StickyBun said:
![[Image: 537117.jpg]](https://hugelolcdn.com/i/537117.jpg)
This could be interpreted two ways depending on what "evidence" you experience and who the "party" is.
If you are a democrat, you would consider "Trump" the party, the "democrats" are your people, and the evidence is what the mainstream media (minus maybe Fox) tells you to experience (or liberal social media).
If you are a republican, you would consider the "Democrats/Mainstream Media" to be the party, your evidence is Fox News/right leanging alternative media, and Trump is on your team pointing out the lies of the Party.
For me, as someone who doesn't really assign himself to either the Democrats or Republicans, I look at that quote, and I think the thing that stands out the most is that "the evidence of your eyes and ears" doesn't really hold true in the same way the book refers to. All of our information is coming from external sources. Very few of us are going to have any personal evidence one way or another to compare with what the "Party" told you. Secondly, I think Orwell's party is not 1/2 of the government, it's the whole government. It's what many would call the "Establishment" of which the "Fake News" media is a part of. I think my evidence of eyes and ears suggests that the Mainstream Media (Fake News Media) is clearly pushing propaganda, and they have since 9/11 which is when I started paying attention. The Establishment Republicans and Establishment Democrats are the same party and they have dominated politics for a while and just argue for the sake of giving a reason to why they take all our money without getting anything done. I'm still on the fence as to whether Trump is part of the Establishment or not. He says a lot of Anti-Establishment things, appears to be trying to do anti-Establishment things, and the Establishment hates him, which maybe leads more credence to him actually being anti-Establishment, but he comes from a very Establishment looking background, and maybe the whole thing is a continuation of the Ruse.
In no realities would I place my faith in Trump being the "Party" while still clinging onto the democrats and Fake News media as my "team". That just seems like crazy talk. They have a much longer track record of being the "Party" than Trump does, at least in the political sphere.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
Oy. Savannah....you have to have more of a life than this. You are EVERYWHERE defending Trump. Its mind boggling.
Well, Trump wouldn't need "defending" if so many OTHER people weren't constantly looking for evidence of Trump's "evil-ness". I hope you're not saying that those OTHER folks don't have a life!
Also, unlike many other Trump supporters (or other political opinion-givers...on both sides...), Savannah takes the time to research things and gives actual support for his positions (case in point- multiple times- above). And he doesn't have to go to his favorite partisan website to make his case. He uses sources that- usually- can be trusted (by both sides) to be factual... like, you know, actual video-taped recordings of the things that Trump has supposedly said.
As a conservative, I'm just glad he's on our side! B)
Quote: @medaille said:
@ StickyBun said:
This could be interpreted two ways depending on what "evidence" you experience and who the "party" is.
If you are a democrat, you would consider "Trump" the party, the "democrats" are your people, and the evidence is what the mainstream media (minus maybe Fox) tells you to experience (or liberal social media).
If you are a republican, you would consider the "Democrats/Mainstream Media" to be the party, your evidence is Fox News/right leanging alternative media, and Trump is on your team pointing out the lies of the Party.
For me, as someone who doesn't really assign himself to either the Democrats or Republicans, I look at that quote, and I think the thing that stands out the most is that "the evidence of your eyes and ears" doesn't really hold true in the same way the book refers to. All of our information is coming from external sources. Very few of us are going to have any personal evidence one way or another to compare with what the "Party" told you. Secondly, I think Orwell's party is not 1/2 of the government, it's the whole government. It's what many would call the "Establishment" of which the "Fake News" media is a part of. I think my evidence of eyes and ears suggests that the Mainstream Media (Fake News Media) is clearly pushing propaganda, and they have since 9/11 which is when I started paying attention. The Establishment Republicans and Establishment Democrats are the same party and they have dominated politics for a while and just argue for the sake of giving a reason to why they take all our money without getting anything done. I'm still on the fence as to whether Trump is part of the Establishment or not. He says a lot of Anti-Establishment things, appears to be trying to do anti-Establishment things, and the Establishment hates him, which maybe leads more credence to him actually being anti-Establishment, but he comes from a very Establishment looking background, and maybe the whole thing is a continuation of the Ruse.
In no realities would I place my faith in Trump being the "Party" while still clinging onto the democrats and Fake News media as my "team". That just seems like crazy talk. They have a much longer track record of being the "Party" than Trump does, at least in the political sphere.
Well stated. But I agree, that bolded part is quite the conundrum. I am in the same camp.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
Oy. Savannah....you have to have more of a life than this. You are EVERYWHERE defending Trump. Its mind boggling.
It's frightening... watching reasonable people do extreme mental gymnastics to excuse and figure out how to explain away nearly every lie, horrible decision, and bizarre statements from this trainwreck administration - knowing full well if it was the other side saying stupid shit like this they'd be losing their collective minds.
He said it. We know what he meant. And yes it's basically 1984, combined with Animal Farm.
And the sheer irony of the OP ... slamming "fake news media" while proving just how gullible and eager they are to regurgitate their side's actual fake news, is beyond hilarious.
God help save this country from the brainwashed masses.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
![[Image: p6xq2x32dprp.jpeg]](https://vikefans.com/vfforums/uploads/editor/4b/p6xq2x32dprp.jpeg)
The outrage!!!!! Orange man bad. Im going to go find my pussy hat and march on Washington. This is all Trumps racist nazi fault!!!!
AOC looks on as hundreds if not thousands of empty parking spots are held against their will at the southern boarder!!!!
You're right. This has changed my opinion on the meat of the issue. Because the media can be deceiving, I don't care about the conditions these people are put in.
Jesus titty-fucking Christ, I swear...
Quote: @KingBash said:
@ AGRforever said:
The outrage!!!!! Orange man bad. Im going to go find my pussy hat and march on Washington. This is all Trumps racist nazi fault!!!!
AOC looks on as hundreds if not thousands of empty parking spots are held against their will at the southern boarder!!!!
You're right. This has changed my opinion on the meat of the issue. Because the media can be deceiving, I don't care about the conditions these people are put in.
Jesus titty-fucking Christ, I swear...
This is going to sound insensitive to some but the illegal immigrants are free to leave. They can fill out a form and do a voluntary departure and just go home. Then they can get in line like all the law abiding folks. Problem solved. No drinking from a water fountain/toilet lol. No sleeping in a cramped room.
This “crisis” is just the next in a long line of bullshit being manufactured by the media. Remeber stormy daniels or Russia-gate or any of the “outrage” crap that you guys get your panties in a knot over?
Quote: @SFVikeFan said:
@ StickyBun said:
Oy. Savannah....you have to have more of a life than this. You are EVERYWHERE defending Trump. Its mind boggling.
It's frightening... watching reasonable people do extreme mental gymnastics to excuse and figure out how to explain away nearly every lie, horrible decision, and bizarre statements from this trainwreck administration - knowing full well if it was the other side saying stupid shit like this they'd be losing their collective minds.
He said it. We know what he meant. And yes it's basically 1984, combined with Animal Farm.
And the sheer irony of the OP ... slamming "fake news media" while proving just how gullible and eager they are to regurgitate their side's actual fake news, is beyond hilarious.
God help save this country from the brainwashed masses.
Mental gymnastics excuses? Gotta be kiddin' me.
Sticky posted a meme with the money-shot conclusion "Trump asks his supporters to ignore their senses, and instead place blind faith in him"
I posted the ACTUAL speech, where it was clear Trump said/intimated no such thing.
Trump, in fact, was clearly warning to NOT BELIEVE THE MEDIA REPORTING. (not their own senses)
"and instead place blind faith in me".... LOL. Not said. EVER. In that speech...or EVER.
If Trump would ACTUALLY ever say such a thing, I'd be the first to abandon.
It's cool you and Sticky don't like Trump. Posting more cogent reasons why, might garner ya'll a few converts.
(BTW, thanks...brutha pumpf, et al  )
Savannah I watched the speech.
"This country is doing better than it's ever done before, economically," Trump said at the Veterans of Foreign Wars National Convention in Kansas City, Mo. "But it's all working out. Just remember: What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening."
"Don't believe the crap you see from these people, the fake news," Trump said, repeating a favored attack of his while pointing to where members of the press were gathered.
Among other economic matters he discussed in Missouri, Trump claimed that farmers would be the "biggest beneficiary" of his escalating trade disputes.
He is literally saying that Savannah. Don't believe the media and what they write about my tariffs. Then he goes on to brag how the farmers are the biggest beneficiaries?
Are you fucking high?
Don't believe the media, but believe me when I say that tariffs are working, and farmers are reaping the benefits?
I don't know if you're pulling our leg, you can't be this dense.
Quote: @SFVikeFan said:
Savannah I watched the speech.
"This country is doing better than it's ever done before, economically," Trump said at the Veterans of Foreign Wars National Convention in Kansas City, Mo. "But it's all working out. Just remember: What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening."
"Don't believe the crap you see from these people, the fake news," Trump said, repeating a favored attack of his while pointing to where members of the press were gathered.
Among other economic matters he discussed in Missouri, Trump claimed that farmers would be the "biggest beneficiary" of his escalating trade disputes.
He is literally saying that Savannah. Don't believe the media and what they write about my tariffs. Then he goes on to brag how the farmers are the biggest beneficiaries?
Are you fucking high?
Don't believe the media, but believe me when I say that tariffs are working, and farmers are reaping the benefits?
I don't know if you're pulling our leg, you can't be this dense.
You... calling Savannah dense? Wow. That'd be like an ant calling Andre the Giant, "small".
If you think that Savannah is wrong, why not just prove it by posting some proof (you know, like HE does)? Or are insults all you have (y'know, besides "Orange Man bad")?
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