Quote: @MaroonBells said:
While I agree that the Vikings are probably very interested in Fant, I'm hoping he draws a trade up from someone (Patriots) because I don't want him.
I'll just cut and paste what I wrote yesterday.
If we didn't already have a TE...AND if TEs didn't take so long to develop....AND we didn't have bigger needs at OL and DL...AND this wasn't an historically deep TE class...I could see it. But I think the Vikings can fill bigger needs at 18 and get much better value at TE in the middle rounds with Sternberger, Knox, Oliver, Warring, Moreau.
Not only that, but Fant has some bust factor. He was said to have pouted when the ball started going to Hockenson more. There are scouts who have concerns about him.
And then look at what it does to your OL help. Really like Howard...as the 2nd lineman taken...tackle depth. But as someone you're counting on to start, I like him less. He's from Alabama State. Probably going to need a year. Love Gaillard as a day 3 guy, but he's not going to help you this year either.
So it's very possible, I'd say likely, we add nothing to the line for '19, our first rounder has bust factor and plays a position that typically takes a couple years to develop. There's a very real chance that if the draft falls this way, the Vikings get no immediate help. Not a fan.
I like the rest of the draft. :-)
I know your love for Fant, Maroon.. lol
You're right that he is a boom/bust prospect and that there will be other mid-round options at TE. It's something I player around with and what it boiled down to for me was that the top tier of O-lineman are off the board which practically leaves you with a D-lineman or TE. Both of those positions are equally as deep. I opted for Fant vs. say Brian Burns. You could easily flip flop and do Burns in the 1st and Warring in the 3rd. The value is basically interchangeable. I have concerns about Fant but I've heard the Kubiak's think he can unlock the offense. So they're petitioning for him to some degree.
As for Tytus Howard I think he can start day one at guard. He would be protected enough inside that they could really use his athleticism and hide his more raw technical skills. He is not ready to play OT though. But a year starting inside will also help him progress faster as well. Personally I wouldn't be shocked to look back at this draft class in 3-4 years and Howard is the best LT from the class.
Ozigbo is someone Rick had watched live quite a bit due to his son playing on the same team. I have seen him quite a bit myself, living in Nebraska. I think he would be a great pick for the Vikings and fit well in their offense. I hope someone doesn't take him earlier. I don't think he will make it to 157. We shall see.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
As for DE Banogu is special since he would have the most bend along the Vikings O-line. Its something that they probably need a bit more of opposite of Danielle. Its also why I think Brian Burns will be another consideration for them at #18. Interesting you bring up Nelson, I personally am not very high on him. He is very athletic but I just tend to shy away from tall athletic DE's since in the NFL leverage becomes one of the most important skills and the height immediately puts you at a disadvantage.
We can agree to disagree on Nelson. I think Zimmer loves to have that big athletic LDE. I liken Nelson to another DE that Zimmer had and loved in Michael Johnson. Look at the past Zimmer drafts (Hunter, Weatherly, Holmes, Acuna vs the others we have taken in the Zimmer era under 6'5" Bj Dubose, Odenigbo and Scott Crichton), I think 6'4" is the height bar for Zimmer's DE's, and 6'5" is close to optimal, it doesn't mean we won't taken them, they just are going to have to bring more to the table athletically. Banogu might fit that exception rule.
As much as I want the Vikes to pick an OL like Williams Taylor or Bradbury at 18, If Fant or Hockenson are still there at #18 or a few others that might drop like Oliver, it would be hard for the Vikes to pass any of them up for an OLman! I do believe there will be one or two surprise players drop to them as well. Always seems to be a few that drop!
Fant is not the kind of blocking TE needed for the Vike offense. Zim wants a better run balance. Fant hasnt proven to be reliable in the blocking game and many times it seems like the true effort is waning. If Hockenson is still available, do it. He adds to your run blocking game, and gives you another receiving target. I think the Vikes try like crazy to move down if the top tier linemen fitting their scheme are gone. The problem is the trade down options are normally much more limited than we the fans think.
I've looked into Brian Burns today and he's an interesting prospect. Very athletic, great bend, has an array of pass rushing moves, & uses his hands well. On the negative side he's bulked up to 249, but seems to have trouble keeping on weight. His strength isn't where you want it yet and I can see him having trouble in the running game, even if he can blow up some plays in the backfield with athleticism. Teams are looking at him both as a DE and a 3-4 LB and he's got the athleticism to play in space. He'd be an interesting guy to have standing over the center in a double A gap blitz or use in zone blitz looks. The question with him is how confident the strength and condition staff are that they can get him to add weight & strength. He compares his game to Jason Taylor and while Taylor did it, it's hard to be a successful end in the 240s.
Burns is kind of like Fant, both have some really impressive traits, look awesome in highlight reels, but are lacking in key areas. Fant with blocking, consistency, & strength and Burns with weight, strength, & run defense. Both are boom or bust picks. Both could also be in line to replace expensive vets in 2020, which could be attractive to the front office.
@ NFL Draft Guru do you have the Vikings passing on the DT Simmons in this mock and instead taking Fant, or do you think he'll be gone by #18 (or 19)?
Regarding Fant... I hope we don't take him. 1st round TEs are dicey enough and when you add questions about work ethic, blocking abilities and mental makeup, it's just way too risky a pick for this team IMO.
I love reading these mocks though so thank you and keep them coming! I like the positions you addressed (after Fant) a lot, and your player breakdowns are great.
Quote: @Waterboy said:
Fant is not the kind of blocking TE needed for the Vike offense. Zim wants a better run balance. Fant hasnt proven to be reliable in the blocking game and many times it seems like the true effort is waning. If Hockenson is still available, do it. He adds to your run blocking game, and gives you another receiving target. I think the Vikes try like crazy to move down if the top tier linemen fitting their scheme are gone. The problem is the trade down options are normally much more limited than we the fans think.
This would be with the caveat that Rudolph is still on the roster for at least 2019. Rudy/Morgan would be your in-line options with Fant working primarily out of the slot or occasionally on the boundary. I would take Hockenson without batting an eye as well but don't really see a scenario where he makes it to #18.
Quote: @pattersaur said:
@ NFL Draft Guru do you have the Vikings passing on the DT Simmons in this mock and instead taking Fant, or do you think he'll be gone by #18 (or 19)?
Regarding Fant... I hope we don't take him. 1st round TEs are dicey enough and when you add questions about work ethic, blocking abilities and mental makeup, it's just way too risky a pick for this team IMO.
I love reading these mocks though so thank you and keep them coming! I like the positions you addressed (after Fant) a lot, and your player breakdowns are great.
I have them passing on Simmons in this mock to get more immediate production. I still feel like Simmons is a dark horse option they're going to strongly consider if the O-lineman they prefer are off the board. ACL injuries are not the curse they once were and on tape Simmons is a top 5 player in this class.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ pattersaur said:
@ NFL Draft Guru do you have the Vikings passing on the DT Simmons in this mock and instead taking Fant, or do you think he'll be gone by #18 (or 19)?
Regarding Fant... I hope we don't take him. 1st round TEs are dicey enough and when you add questions about work ethic, blocking abilities and mental makeup, it's just way too risky a pick for this team IMO.
I love reading these mocks though so thank you and keep them coming! I like the positions you addressed (after Fant) a lot, and your player breakdowns are great.
I have them passing on Simmons in this mock to get more immediate production. I still feel like Simmons is a dark horse option they're going to strongly consider if the O-lineman they prefer are off the board. ACL injuries are not the curse they once were and on tape Simmons is a top 5 player in this class.
If the Vikings can somehow pull off a trade down involving Waynes, who I'd bet dollars to donuts is still very much in play, I'd love to see them grab an OL starter and Simmons. One idea I like is trading Waynes and #18 to the Raiders for #27 and #35. Maybe a little wishful thinking, but the combos they could draft are pretty enticing: Bradbury and Simmons, Risner and McGary, Ford and Simmons....
|
