Posts: 68
Threads: 39
Joined: Jan 2014
Reputation:
38
1 (18) - Trade 1(18) for 1(19) and 5 (157)
1 (19) via TEN - Noah Fant (TE / Iowa) : This is going to be a controversial pick. TE in the first round, no O-lineman, I'm expecting pure outrage. In this mock the Vikings trade back a single spot to recoup their missing 5th round selection. As the draft approaches there is becoming a lesser chance any of the top 3 O-lineman remain on the board and the 2nd tier of O-lineman does not drop off quickly. The Vikings also are in a strong position to trade back with teams in the back half of the 1st looking for impact defensive talent or to jump teams for a playmaker. Point being, the Vikings are going to have options. Noah Fant is an athletic marvel who is a better athlete than TE. But as a weapon Kubiak can unleash him, it's a perfect match. Without being a complete blocker yet Fant can function as a slot WR early in his career with the ability to really develop into one of the better TE's in the league in years 2-4. The ceiling is incredibly high but I would be foolish to leave out the floor is also quite low as well.
2 (50) - Tytus Howard (OT/OG / Alabama State) : There is a chance that Howard doesn't make it to pick 50 which may be a surprise to some. Although raw I am a big fan of Tytus Howard and what he shows once you get him in motion. He is a terrific athlete and understands how to seal off at the second level. Hand usage needs to improve and he hasn't been tested at the highest level of competition. His traits project him to be a potential LT in the NFL but he has experience at guard (and was good) which isn't talked about enough. He can start immediately at LG and bump outside to LT when ready in the future.
3 (81) - Ben Banogu (EDGE / TCU) : This is your typical Vikings pass rush prospect who displays elite traits but hasn't been able to put it together consistently at the college level. Now a popular name in NFL draft circles, the Vikings scouted Banogu multiple times this past season likely thinking he'd be a late round steal. TCU's scheme allowed Banogu to use his speed to get up field and make plays in the backfield. His pass rushing arsenal is a bit raw but he should have the ability to be the 4th pass rusher in 2019 with a very high ceiling moving forward.
4 (120) - Lamont Gaillard (C/OG / Georgia) : Another O-lineman here should make Vikings fans feel comfortable entering the 2019 campaign. Gaillard is a 3 year SEC starter and was one of Georgia's vocal leaders along the O-line. Gaillard doesn't have one skill that sticks out on tape, but man is he scrappy. Sometime regardless of how physically skilled you are the job simply has to get done and he does just that. He may not start in year one but he is a versatile backup piece who can play any of the 3 interior O-line positions. By year two he should be a threat to step in and take major snaps... maybe when Howard bumps out to LT.
5 (157) via TEN - Devine Ozigbo (RB / Nebraska) : A popular pick in many mock drafts, it just makes too much sense. The Vikings have heavily scouted Ozigbo and he would be a great complimentary piece to Dalvin Cook. Ozigbo is a bowling ball rolling down a hill and has the balance to get through first contact. He actually reminds me of Mark Ingram in a way (not a perfect comp). He likely will be best in a time-share but has better long speed than people give him credit for. A strong complimentary piece next to Cook would make an immediate impact.
6 (190) - Sione Takitaki (LB / BYU) : The Vikings took a trip out to BYU to see Takitaki at their pro day. The Vikings were not happy with their LB depth in 2018 and they need to find additional depth in this draft class. Takitaki struggled with off the field issues early in his collegiate career but has done a 180 since. He is not going to play much in the nickel but has a chance to compete with Ben Gedeon immediately. If he cannot win that competition he should immediately become a plus ST player.
6 (209) - Daniel Wise (DT / Kansas) : One of my sleeper picks in this years class if put in the right system is Wise. He is a natural 3-tech DT who has tremendous quickness to get up field as a pure pass rusher. Although he is not a finished product and struggles to get off blocks his length should allow him to be coached up. He isn't a guy that can step in and make an impact in year one but he does have some potential to develop into a rotational interior pocket pusher.
7 (247) - Derrick Baity Jr (CB / Kentucky) : Baity has a long ways to go as a CB, but he possesses the size to become a factor at the position. With Holton Hill's suspension he could step in as depth early in the season and be an upside special teams player. At worst he would have the opportunity to develop on the PS once Hill returns and make an impact in 2020 when the Vikings will need additional DB depth.
7 (250) - Greg Dortch (WR / Wake Forest) : Dortch is limited to playing slot receiver in the NFL due to his size limitations. The only reason he will likely be drafted is due to his explosiveness and ability to return both kicks and punts. With Marcus Sherels departing for New Orleans the Vikings will have a true return competition and Dortch would be a strong candidate to win the job or at least put up a good fight.
In general, I like this better than your first mock. Though the main concern that I have, is there's a lot of gambling on potential, which I know you favor as a philosophy. Are the bargin bin FA signings, AAF signings, and rookie FAs going to be enough to address immediate concerns while these players develop?
I like the idea of Fant. We need another weapon in the passing game to take pressure off of Diggs and Thielen and Fant is basically a giant WR at this point. They can move him around the field to create mismatches and he'll see a lot of single coverage his first year. If he progresses well in year one, then the Vikings would have the option to move on from Rudolph and free up some much needed cap room. I do have some concerns that he shares Rudolph's affliction of not breaking tackles and that he doesn't have a lot of experience playing in-line, but he looks really good on WR/TE screens and adjusting to deep balls. We've tried drafting the late round versions of him several times, so I'd like to see what happens with a more talented athletic TE.
This draft is a good example of how DT is a position that we either draft early or it becomes a low priority. Pass rusher could be a bigger need next year, so taking a raw player like Banogu could make sense, though this scenario would also mean keeping Holmes at DT.
Ozigbo seems to be frequently linked to the Vikings. Hopefully we get him, but positions can get hit by runs, so are there any similar backs to keep an eye out for?
On Takitaki, is there any point at adding another 2-down LB? It's been bad enough with Gedeon and it's getting harder to keep guys with limited coverage skills on the field. Would it maybe make sense to try to address LB earlier and find someone who can still play the run, but could stay on the field in nickel if needed? Gedeon was so bad in coverage at times last year, that I really wanted them to just start playing big nickel a lot more.
It would be nice to see them show restraint and draft a corner late. It's an important position, but I feel that all the high picks spent on corners have hurt other parts of the roster and we need to give some other positions some attention even if there could be needs in 2020.
I’ll start off with the, Why not a o-lineman? crowd. I truly get Fant’s athleticism is off the charts, but I view him as one of those complete luxury TE picks that happen in the first round more often than I think it would. Those picks tend to not really work out too well either(I look at Detroit and have thought, You cant afford to take that TE! and it has bitten them a couple times). Fant is not a finished product and that scares me at 18/19. The run blocking is not there, and his hands appear inconsistent. I just don’t think the Vikings can afford to take a player who might take a while to develop.
I have always been a take the best talent approach, even when I knew the o-line was a problem (thinking that you can just develop mid-round lineman and turn them into solid players like it will automatically happen because of the position). However, our franchise has proven to not be able to develop lineman. I think it has come time that they need to bite the bullet and draft at least two lineman high in the draft to ensure this season is not derailed by not fully addressing this area.
So, as much as I want to say grab an awesome DT or fun toy, it is past that point for the Vikings. I am starting to truly think the Vikings need to draft o-line in round 1 and 2. I don’t have trust in the line as it is right now. What if Kline is more like his recent down year? What if one starter gets injured? Most likely someone will miss time this season, and I don’t think we can trust a second half of the draft guy to step in without issues. If the top three are gone by 18, trade back and get a guy like Lindstrom late in the first and then come back with Howard in the second. Gaillard sounds good in the 4th, so stick with that too.
I don’t think over correcting is a good business model, but after so many years of under correcting or just missing their shots, this has to be the time to over do it and try their best to fix the glaring weakness.
With this in mind, some areas of the team will not be able to be addressed, but I think it is necessary this one year and the team can get by in other areas. To me, that eliminates a mid-round QB that I want. However that doesn’t disappoint me too much when I consider how many QBs in this area don’t work out. What do you think of Mannion? Pretty blah, huh? Well he was a 3rd round pick 4 years ago. Most mid-rounders don’t develop into a Cousins. Ok, cross QB off the board. Grab the d-lineman in the 3rd round where this draft class should still have guys who can contribute to the Vikings position group (I have much more blind faith in this with recent history). Then get a linebacker and WR/RB with the pick or picks obtained for trading back in the first round.
My opinion could change a few times before the draft, but this is the direction my gut thinks is best for the team. Good stuff Guru. Thanks!
They'd never take Fant at #19, just my opinion.
My only concern with this draft is that if we aren't going to take Oline in the first is that we get a day 1 starter in the 2nd, and a couple of pieces later that could compete for a spot later in the draft. Howard is not a day 1 starter to me and would fall into a similar bucket as O'neill last season bit of a project who doesn't project to see much early action but is toolsy.
As for Banogu, Acuna from last year is exactly the type of DE Zimmer loves and makes the Banogu pick unneeded and too short to fit the Zimmer proto-type. I like the Nelson kid form Iowa as a better fit in Zimmer's Scheme than Banogu who I see as more of a 3-4 LB than a long lanky athletic DE and Nelson could really project to the LDE spot. I really don't see a Zimmer proto-type DE outside of Sweat and Burns and I don't see us moving up to take either of them, but if Burns slides to 18 we should run to the podium with his name.
I'd rather see up grab another Oline man in the 3rd, if we go with Howard in the 2nd, someone like Bobby Evans or Nate Davis. Both offer some flexibility and depth. I'm not overly excited about the Gaillard pick in the 4th, I think there is comparable talent that can be found in the 5th, and I think Gaillard more naturally projects as a 5th or 6th rounder and to me just doesn't justify the 4th round pick, 2 centers in 3 years in the first 4 rounds is waste to me. I consider a center in the first 4 rounds as a long term starter, and Gaillard is a bit on the short side for guard, but if the Vikings see Elflein moving to guard, I could buy into Gaillard a round or 2 later.
I love Wise and Ozigbo picks. I don't love the Fant pick from a need standpoint, but if we see him as that 3rd guy that makes Theilen and Diggs that much harder to double, then consider me all in. From a speed and talent standpoint, Fant could be a stud and a difference maker in our offense. My only concern with taking him in the first is will he be a liability in the run game as a blocker. The best TE's in the league to me, (Gronk and Kelce) are dynamic catching the ball, but aren't too bad in the run game either, and Fant fits the first part just not sure about the later, seems more Jimmy Graham like just not 6'7". If he is the Vikings pick, I'll be excited because I can see him as a game changer in the play action game in 22 personnel.
While I agree that the Vikings are probably very interested in Fant, I'm hoping he draws a trade up from someone (Patriots) because I don't want him.
I'll just cut and paste what I wrote yesterday.
If we didn't already have a TE...AND if TEs didn't take so long to develop....AND we didn't have bigger needs at OL and DL...AND this wasn't an historically deep TE class...I could see it. But I think the Vikings can fill bigger needs at 18 and get much better value at TE in the middle rounds with Sternberger, Knox, Oliver, Warring, Moreau.
Not only that, but Fant has some bust factor. He was said to have pouted when the ball started going to Hockenson more. There are scouts who have concerns about him.
And then look at what it does to your OL help. Really like Howard...as the 2nd lineman taken...tackle depth. But as someone you're counting on to start, I like him less. He's from Alabama State. Probably going to need a year. Love Gaillard as a day 3 guy, but he's not going to help you this year either.
So it's very possible, I'd say likely, we add nothing to the line for '19, our first rounder has bust factor and plays a position that typically takes a couple years to develop. There's a very real chance that if the draft falls this way, the Vikings get no immediate help. Not a fan.
I like the rest of the draft. :-)
Quote: @Tyr said:
In general, I like this better than your first mock. Though the main concern that I have, is there's a lot of gambling on potential, which I know you favor as a philosophy. Are the bargin bin FA signings, AAF signings, and rookie FAs going to be enough to address immediate concerns while these players develop?
I like the idea of Fant. We need another weapon in the passing game to take pressure off of Diggs and Thielen and Fant is basically a giant WR at this point. They can move him around the field to create mismatches and he'll see a lot of single coverage his first year. If he progresses well in year one, then the Vikings would have the option to move on from Rudolph and free up some much needed cap room. I do have some concerns that he shares Rudolph's affliction of not breaking tackles and that he doesn't have a lot of experience playing in-line, but he looks really good on WR/TE screens and adjusting to deep balls. We've tried drafting the late round versions of him several times, so I'd like to see what happens with a more talented athletic TE.
This draft is a good example of how DT is a position that we either draft early or it becomes a low priority. Pass rusher could be a bigger need next year, so taking a raw player like Banogu could make sense, though this scenario would also mean keeping Holmes at DT.
Ozigbo seems to be frequently linked to the Vikings. Hopefully we get him, but positions can get hit by runs, so are there any similar backs to keep an eye out for?
On Takitaki, is there any point at adding another 2-down LB? It's been bad enough with Gedeon and it's getting harder to keep guys with limited coverage skills on the field. Would it maybe make sense to try to address LB earlier and find someone who can still play the run, but could stay on the field in nickel if needed? Gedeon was so bad in coverage at times last year, that I really wanted them to just start playing big nickel a lot more.
It would be nice to see them show restraint and draft a corner late. It's an important position, but I feel that all the high picks spent on corners have hurt other parts of the roster and we need to give some other positions some attention even if there could be needs in 2020.
You're right that philosophically I'll take traits over production. But you're thoughts really align with mine quite a bit. I quickly wanted to note why I think the Vikings are attacking a lot of AAF players in free agency.
I think the AAF has created a bit of a pre-draft UDFA period without needing to use your rookie pool. The Vikings are exploiting this a bit by adding depth free agents now which will allow them to offer a higher level of guarantees to their top UDFA post draft targets. This should end up allowing them to add a lot more quality after the draft. Its a competitive advantage if you can pull it off.
Quote: @SkolVikings44 said:
I’ll start off with the, Why not a o-lineman? crowd. I truly get Fant’s athleticism is off the charts, but I view him as one of those complete luxury TE picks that happen in the first round more often than I think it would. Those picks tend to not really work out too well either(I look at Detroit and have thought, You cant afford to take that TE! and it has bitten them a couple times). Fant is not a finished product and that scares me at 18/19. The run blocking is not there, and his hands appear inconsistent. I just don’t think the Vikings can afford to take a player who might take a while to develop.
I have always been a take the best talent approach, even when I knew the o-line was a problem (thinking that you can just develop mid-round lineman and turn them into solid players like it will automatically happen because of the position). However, our franchise has proven to not be able to develop lineman. I think it has come time that they need to bite the bullet and draft at least two lineman high in the draft to ensure this season is not derailed by not fully addressing this area.
So, as much as I want to say grab an awesome DT or fun toy, it is past that point for the Vikings. I am starting to truly think the Vikings need to draft o-line in round 1 and 2. I don’t have trust in the line as it is right now. What if Kline is more like his recent down year? What if one starter gets injured? Most likely someone will miss time this season, and I don’t think we can trust a second half of the draft guy to step in without issues. If the top three are gone by 18, trade back and get a guy like Lindstrom late in the first and then come back with Howard in the second. Gaillard sounds good in the 4th, so stick with that too.
I don’t think over correcting is a good business model, but after so many years of under correcting or just missing their shots, this has to be the time to over do it and try their best to fix the glaring weakness.
With this in mind, some areas of the team will not be able to be addressed, but I think it is necessary this one year and the team can get by in other areas. To me, that eliminates a mid-round QB that I want. However that doesn’t disappoint me too much when I consider how many QBs in this area don’t work out. What do you think of Mannion? Pretty blah, huh? Well he was a 3rd round pick 4 years ago. Most mid-rounders don’t develop into a Cousins. Ok, cross QB off the board. Grab the d-lineman in the 3rd round where this draft class should still have guys who can contribute to the Vikings position group (I have much more blind faith in this with recent history). Then get a linebacker and WR/RB with the pick or picks obtained for trading back in the first round.
My opinion could change a few times before the draft, but this is the direction my gut thinks is best for the team. Good stuff Guru. Thanks!
Good thoughts. I think my biggest issue with O-line is that although its a need you can't start reaching since you're going to potentially pass on a better player and settle for a similar player you could have at your next pick. In my analysis there is a large pool after Williams, Taylor, Dillard, and Bradbury that generally have the same chance of success in the NFL. One or more of those players will make it to #50 and you still have the potential to move up for one of them as well. Clearly if one of the top 3 OT's make it to #18 you turn the card in ASAP and this becomes a non-discussion.
I personally am not a huge fan of Mannion but don't think he is a drastic drop-off from Siemian either. Sloter will have a chance to step in as well. I could see the team using a mid-round selection on a QB if the right guy fell far enough. I just don't think they're going to force it to happen.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
They'd never take Fant at #19, just my opinion.
You're going to be in the majority I think :p
Quote: @Amazonviking said:
My only concern with this draft is that if we aren't going to take Oline in the first is that we get a day 1 starter in the 2nd, and a couple of pieces later that could compete for a spot later in the draft. Howard is not a day 1 starter to me and would fall into a similar bucket as O'neill last season bit of a project who doesn't project to see much early action but is toolsy.
As for Banogu, Acuna from last year is exactly the type of DE Zimmer loves and makes the Banogu pick unneeded and too short to fit the Zimmer proto-type. I like the Nelson kid form Iowa as a better fit in Zimmer's Scheme than Banogu who I see as more of a 3-4 LB than a long lanky athletic DE and Nelson could really project to the LDE spot. I really don't see a Zimmer proto-type DE outside of Sweat and Burns and I don't see us moving up to take either of them, but if Burns slides to 18 we should run to the podium with his name.
I'd rather see up grab another Oline man in the 3rd, if we go with Howard in the 2nd, someone like Bobby Evans or Nate Davis. Both offer some flexibility and depth. I'm not overly excited about the Gaillard pick in the 4th, I think there is comparable talent that can be found in the 5th, and I think Gaillard more naturally projects as a 5th or 6th rounder and to me just doesn't justify the 4th round pick, 2 centers in 3 years in the first 4 rounds is waste to me. I consider a center in the first 4 rounds as a long term starter, and Gaillard is a bit on the short side for guard, but if the Vikings see Elflein moving to guard, I could buy into Gaillard a round or 2 later.
I love Wise and Ozigbo picks. I don't love the Fant pick from a need standpoint, but if we see him as that 3rd guy that makes Theilen and Diggs that much harder to double, then consider me all in. From a speed and talent standpoint, Fant could be a stud and a difference maker in our offense. My only concern with taking him in the first is will he be a liability in the run game as a blocker. The best TE's in the league to me, (Gronk and Kelce) are dynamic catching the ball, but aren't too bad in the run game either, and Fant fits the first part just not sure about the later, seems more Jimmy Graham like just not 6'7". If he is the Vikings pick, I'll be excited because I can see him as a game changer in the play action game in 22 personnel.
I actually almost went back to back O-line in the 2nd/3rd so I don't think that is a crazy idea. If they don't go O-lineman in the 1st I think there is actually a good chance of that happening. If they do take O-lineman in the first I would find it very unlikely they follow-up with another in the 2nd or 3rd just for value purposes.
As for DE Banogu is special since he would have the most bend along the Vikings O-line. Its something that they probably need a bit more of opposite of Danielle. Its also why I think Brian Burns will be another consideration for them at #18. Interesting you bring up Nelson, I personally am not very high on him. He is very athletic but I just tend to shy away from tall athletic DE's since in the NFL leverage becomes one of the most important skills and the height immediately puts you at a disadvantage.
|
