Quote: @SFVikeFan said:
You said "ALL" when clearly that's already been proven complete bullshit, now you have changed your argument to what % of their services are abortions. So now you admit PP does more than just perform abortions?
So right there, you just moved the goalposts and admitted I was correct. Now you want to change your argument to what %, but we both know you have no idea of it's10, 20, or 50 but that doesn'tmatter because I'vealready proven it's nowhere near "ALL" as you continue to claim like a blithering idiot.
To further illustrate your lack of reading comprehension, those numbers were not from Planned Parenthood. They were from a 3rd party website factcheck.org.
You don't like links because they are my opinions? LOL! Do you think I wrote those articles? Do you think those direct quotes from Trump are "opinions"? Why is it you refuse to read facts? Are you afraid of truth, prefer to stay in your own echo chamber of bullshit? You'd rather make a fool of yourself when someone actually posts quotes and links when you're the one who demanded them to begin with?
You're embarrassing yourself at this point.
So... when someone introduces a statement by saying, "All I know is...", you take that literally? You think that they only know one thing? Have you heard of hyperbole? It's a literary device in which exaggeration is used to make a point. And out of ALL that I said, you took that hyperbolic statement as a literal one... and THAT is your basis for questioning my reading comprehension... and saying that I'm embarrassing yourself. Well, this just went from interesting... to amazing!
Yes, SF: you were correct. PP does more than abortions. They also sell the body parts of the babies that they've killed. Thanks for reminding me about that.
And you know what is REALLY amazing? You questioned my reading comprehension. Let's see if you can see where everything went horribly wrong (directly from your post):
Abortions accounted for 3 percent of the nearly 10.6 million total services provided by Planned Parenthood clinics in 2013, according to its annual report.
(OK, I admit: I helped you a little)
So, your "third party" simply repeated what PP said about themselves. They did not give their own opinion. The only "fact" they checked (as it related to the 3%, since you are now taking every word as literal)... was whether or not PP reported that number in it's report. Yep; they did.
Funny that you didn't even read / comprehend your own link. Maybe I SHOULD read the other links that you provided! Who knows what wonderful goodies they might contain?
Also: are you ever going to answer any of the questions I've posed to you? In case you missed them:
- How can you support the legal right to kill a child with Down Syndrome- just because they have DS?
- Why can't we come to a bi-partisan agreement to give tax-payer money to clinics that do everything for women- except abortions? Planned Parenthood would still be able to operate- and women would have access to every other form of "help" that they need / want. Why does the money HAVE to go to PP?
Two relatively simple questions.
Quote: @SFVikeFan said:
@
Oh and pumpf, Planned Parenthood doesn't receive "hundreds of billions of dollars" from the government. Jesus you're worse than Trump himself with the clueless exaggerations. Being a non-profit you could look up their funding, but that might take effort and an IQ higher than 50 on your end.
Their total revenue for 2014 was $1.3 billion, of which $528 million was from government funding.
$500 million is much less than "hundreds of billions" as you yet again incorrectly claim - you sound like Trump himself. I could give you a link to the data but what's the use ... you won't read it and will still insist it's still hundreds of billions.
But hey maybe if taxpayers weren't spending several billion to fund a worthless wall to keep brown people out, or spending tens of billions to fund the bailouts for farmers who had the soybean market destroyed by Trump's own tariffs when China who buys 90% of their crop decided to buy from South America instead, or spending trillions in corporate welfare or giving tax cuts for the rich in the billions there would be more money for you to adopt all those kids you want ... but yeeahhhh blame it on the funding of $500 million to PP.
Yep, you're right. I meant to type "millions", but got carried away. What I typed was wrong. And I'm here to own up to it and acknowledge it.
As for the rest of your screed: the wall is to keep illegal immigrants "out"; regardless of their color. Do you think that if Asians... or Europeans... were coming in droves, it would be any different?
You may have had some good points... until you went back into zombie-Democrat mode ("cuts for the rich"). What did the governor (democrat) of NY... and the mayor (democrat) of NYC... offer to Amazon? I believe it was... TAX BREAKS! And why did they do that evil thing? Seriously; you're the economics expert: explain why 2 Democrats would want to do such an evil (conservative) thing. I'm sure it had nothing to do with the jobs that Amazon would've created or the overall boon to the local economy- because those things are just myths. So, if you've got the time: could you answer that question- along with the other 2 that I've been asking for awhile now?
Quote: @SFVikeFan said:
Uh, poor people of all colors? Without PP you're forcing even more women and children into welfare, increasing breast cancer and STD's. Did you fail to see the stats of how many women receive services that have nothing to do with abortions? Not one penny of that $500 million goes towards abortions either.
Why do conservatives hate women's healthcare so much? It's amazing how you care so much for an unborn fetus but you're downright spiteful towards the health of grown women.
So, what you're saying is: women (along with men) make bad choices that they regret later... and forcing them to accept responsibility for those choices (because the alternative means killing human life)... means that the people willing to kill children are the good guys? What a strange world you live in.
It is an especially strange world... when you define "women's health care" as "killing children". By the way, who do you think is providing all kinds of ACTUAL care for women, donating baby car seats... diapers... food... etc? You have no idea how many millions (yes, "millions") of dollars are donated by Christians to pregnancy resource centers. I've been very active in a number of them; so I do. Democrats like to tell themselves (and the world) that THEY are the ones who care about women. But all they care about is votes... and escaping responsibility. If PP cared about women, they'd be trying to counsel women; NOT encourage abortions. Abortions HURT women. THAT is a fact. And you guys encourage it.
Ah, now the argument went from the repeated use of "all" ... to greediron calling my fact checked stats "lies and fairy tales" then decides that the fact checked website I provide isn't accurate, yet you guys offer no proof or stats of your own and just talk out of your asses ... and now we're going to go with the excuse of "I didn't mean what I said (repeatedly), each time I was using hyperbole."
Goalposts moved again, bravo.
So the old classic of "I know what I said, but I meant something else" excuse.
LMAO
Trump tactics at work, bless your hearts it's pure fucking comedy at this point.
Quote: @pumpf said:
- ...
- Why can't we come to a bi-partisan agreement to give tax-payer money to clinics that do everything for women- except abortions? Planned Parenthood would still be able to operate- and women would have access to every other form of "help" that they need / want. Why does the money HAVE to go to PP?
This is what I find weird about the planned parenthood conversation. Abortion is a huge dealbreaker for some people. The amount of people that support contraception and general supportive services for women is probably a strong majority. Why is there this need to lump something super controversial with things generally well supported. It seems if you split up the two services, you aren't forcing people to spend their tax dollars on things they despise.
It just seems like we could make so much more progress in politics if we just focused on the things that we all overwhelmingly agree on, rather than trying to stuff as much pork into bills as we can get away with. Like if you have a bill that contains things that 80% of the people agree on, but a few dealbreakers, why not just pass the 80% and let the 20% not make it. Why do we have to reject the whole thing?
Quote: @SFVikeFan said:
Ah, now the argument went from the repeated use of "all" ... to greediron calling my fact checked stats "lies and fairy tales" then decides that the fact checked website I provide isn't accurate, yet you guys offer no proof or stats of your own and just talk out of your asses ... and now we're going to go with the excuse of "I didn't mean what I said (repeatedly), each time I was using hyperbole."
Goalposts moved again, bravo.
So the old classic of "I know what I said, but I meant something else" excuse.
LMAO
Trump tactics at work, bless your hearts it's pure fucking comedy at this point.
Did you actually read the link you posted, from a "third party"??? It said- very specifically- that it got it's information from PP's own report. Therefore, the information you posted was not the work of that third party; it was from PP. If CNN were to quote me saying that I could bench 500 pounds, that wouldn't mean that CNN was reporting that I was that strong; they would be reporting that I CLAIMED to be that strong. Can you really not see the difference (with regards to your link)?
The rest of your comments aren't worthy of responding, because it's all an attempt to avoid answering the questions I posed. I know why you can't... and I hope it does cause you to wrestle with it. You don't have to answer the questions for me... but- in your own mind- you will. Hopefully, someday, you'll realize that the life of your cousin was worth protecting and cherishing- even before he was born.
By the way, the only reason I continue to interact with you... is because I want people to see the difference between being pro-abortion and being pro-life. And I thank you for helping me with that. I know that I won't change your mind; but- maybe- someone with a more open mind will see our conversation and come to the right conclusion.
Have a blessed day.
Quote: @KingBash said:
@ greediron said:
@ KingBash said:
@ greediron said:
I am for truth no matter which side is in power. I probably was more vigilant when Bush was in office because he had many conservatives fooled into thinking he was conservative. I railed against his power grabs and executive orders more than I did against Obama.
As to the report, are you telling me you are going to read and understand 300 pages of legal mumbo jumbo?
The democrat narratives are so hilarious. "just wait until..." Manfort is arrested, oh boy Trump is done. and then next guy, oh boy Trump is finished. "wait until Mueller gives his report" the walls are closing in. Then Mueller sez no collusion. Oh wait Barr has the final word. No collusion. "Mueller is an idiot and Barr is protecting the prez."
You actually think that seeing the whole report would change the narrative? Pay attention. The Mueller investigation which was what every Dem pinned their hopes and fantasies on wasn't what they wanted. It stated exactly the opposite of what they said for 2 years.
Every legal interpretation I've seen was that Mueller concluded that there wasn't enough evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that the president committed a crime. He also went on to say that it doesn't exonerate him. Stop twisting his words.
So now, as predicted, TRUMP-APPOINTED William Barr, who 9 months ago basically promised the president he'd be safe, did his job just as King Baby had hoped. And now the Republicans will do everything they can that would look bad for him.
Am I going to read it? No, of course not. Just like you didn't read the Ken Starr report. I'll let watchdog groups, who LOVE doing this and do it for a living, go through and pull the stuff that the American people should know. (Although it's probably already stuff most people know, but people like you should pay attention to.)
Which leads me to my last bolded point: says who?! You didn't read it either! You're going off what Trump says as he walks around yelling out, "See?! No collusion!" because he stacked the deck with henchmen Republican lawmakers.
On a more personal note, I just did my taxes. Fuck Trump.
Yes, no collusion. The president did not commit a crime or try to have the russians influence the election. At least that is a higher bar than committed crimes but didn't "have intent" like Hillary.
I didn't vote for Trump either. But at least I am honest enough to admit I was wrong in large part about what kind of president he would be. He has far exceeded my expectations.
As to "stacking the deck" I suppose Mueller is a secret russian spy as well. The excuses are nonstop.
Go back and read what I wrote.
There was collusion. It was in plain sight. And if he's exceeded your expectations...
You're just simply not very smart. There's no other explanation I can come to. He's a shit president, and the people who support him are jackasses at this point. Time for rational people to tell it like it is.
Have a good weekend!
Thanks. Your tactics of name calling pretty much reveal your ability to have a rational discussion.
Quote: @SFVikeFan said:
@ greediron said:
@ SFVikeFan said:
@ pumpf said:
@ SFVikeFan said:
Speaking of dumbassery:
https://www.factcheck.org/2015/09/planned-p
Abortions accounted for 3 percent of the nearly 10.6 million total services provided by Planned Parenthood clinics in 2013, according to its annual report.
Some services it provided in addition to abortions were: - 4.5 million tests and treatment for sexually transmitted infections
- 3.6 million contraception related services
- 935,573 cancer screenings including breast exams and Pap tests
- 1.1 million pregnancy tests and prenatal services
Go ahead and dispute it with a fact checked source if you're so well informed ...
Oh and Pumpf, of course you didn't look at my links. Why? Because they are facts that prove once again you're just an ignorant dipshit that accuses me of opinions and claims they're not facts, makes fun for me not posting sources, and when I do post sources to back up my claims to prove my claims are factual, you turn and tuck your tail and act like it didn't happen.
And yet here we are again ... you two looking like Dumb and Dumber because you have no idea what PP offers but insisting I'm wrong.
This is the problem with many of you conservatives. Too many of you suffer from Dunning Kruger syndrome and have no idea what's fact vs fiction.
By the way pumpf how many kids have you adopted? I assume you must have given the Duggar family a run for their money ...
You won't respond to the one question I asked you... but here I am again, responding to you.
Gee, you got your numbers from Planned Parenthood? Wow. Reminds me of when Daryl (on the Office) said that he was responsible for overseeing billions of items being shipped each year. When questioned, he confessed: "pieces of paper". With PP, they cook the numbers in such a way to be able to make it seem like they're doing all kinds of noble work. Greed pointed one aspect out (which you'll ignore). I've heard it put another way: "It would be like the NFL saying that because they sold 5 million hot dogs in a season, and there were only 256 games, football is only .005 percent of what they do,"
I didn't look at your links, because I don't care about YOUR opinion, because it is so hopelessly wrong. Shoot, I could look at them and conclude that- in those cases- you're right; but it wouldn't matter, because Democrats kill unborn children... encourage the targeting of preborn children with Down Syndrome... and are even OK with allowing born children to be left to die. So, if you want to argue that Trump is bad, go ahead. I might even agree with you. But he's not a baby-killer. If you guys had anyone worth considering, I would. But you don't. So we're stuck with Trump.
As for adopting children: none. But only because we can't afford it. We could... if the hundreds of billions of dollars that went to PP went to making adoption more affordable. But we have taken classes to become foster parents... and we do give money to support an orphanage. And, yes: we would've liked to have more children, but we were unable for a long time... and then we lost another child before she had a chance to be born. Thanks for asking.
Oh and pumpf, Planned Parenthood doesn't receive "hundreds of billions of dollars" from the government. Jesus you're worse than Trump himself with the clueless exaggerations. Being a non-profit you could look up their funding, but that might take effort and an IQ higher than 50 on your end.
Their total revenue for 2014 was $1.3 billion, of which $528 million was from government funding.
$500 million is much less than "hundreds of billions" as you yet again incorrectly claim - you sound like Trump himself. I could give you a link to the data but what's the use ... you won't read it and will still insist it's still hundreds of billions.
But hey maybe if taxpayers weren't spending several billion to fund a worthless wall to keep brown people out, or spending tens of billions to fund the bailouts for farmers who had the soybean market destroyed by Trump's own tariffs when China who buys 90% of their crop decided to buy from South America instead, or spending trillions in corporate welfare or giving tax cuts for the rich in the billions there would be more money for you to adopt all those kids you want ... but yeeahhhh blame it on the funding of $500 million to PP.
how many years of 500 million equals a billion? and I believe it was aroun 900 mil a few years ago. Yeah, maybe not quite in the hundreds of billions, but not quite what you pretend either.
And to be fair, the GOP is just as culpable with funding PP. They had the house, senate and presidency yet failed to even talk about defunding PP. So I don't pretend the GOP is the answer. They are hypocrites. But the Dems openly embrace infanticide now.
OH and who do you think PP targets? Maybe those "brown people" you refer to?
Uh, poor people of all colors? Without PP you're forcing even more women and children into welfare, increasing breast cancer and STD's. Did you fail to see the stats of how many women receive services that have nothing to do with abortions? Not one penny of that $500 million goes towards abortions either.
Why do conservatives hate women's healthcare so much? It's amazing how you care so much for an unborn fetus but you're downright spiteful towards the health of grown women.
So welfare for PP execs or welfare for poor people. And no, they don't do mammograms no matter how many times you repeat it.
So as I said, the 12 services counted for 1 years prescription vs 1 abortion. Where do you think they make their money? Other than robbing from the taxpayers to count that 12 services? Why do liberals hate logic as well as babies? It is amazing how much your love of a baby killing for profit company makes you hate babies and women.
Quote: @medaille said:
@ SFVikeFan said:
Pumpf I do hope you can pause and take in one particular line that you wrote that honestly shocks me to the core and the reason why America is completely fucked and it's never going to be the same again:
"It appears that they (Russia) may have been more trustworthy than our own intelligence community".
Now you understand why I wrote what I did. Russia did win. You are not alone in that opinion, you've been hoodwinked and conned by Trump and rightwing media, you've spent years listening to them constantly berating our media and our own intelligence agencies and it's gotten through to millions of you Trump supporters: that you'd rather believe the fucking Russians than our own intelligence agencies. You know what that is? It's fucking treason pumpf.
This is why Trump has been the worst thing to ever happen to our country and planet. 10 years ago Republicans & Dems could argue on policy differences, but we could agree on who are allies are, who are enemies are, what is fact and what is conspiracy theory. But now we operate in two completely different orbits of information. Trump has done such an outstanding job of undermining the credibility of the media, our own intelligence agencies, our military that he's got you convinced you can't trust any of them ... as long as you trust HIM because he knows more than the generals, he'll get North Korea to dismantle their nukes, that Putin said he didn't do it and not to trust the 13 intelligence agencies who all 100% agree Russia launched a massive attack on social media to sway the election .... but what sickens me most is that you're willing to trust the fucking Russians more than America's own intelligence community.
Score victory for Russia - they achieved far more than they had ever dreamed by helping get Trump elected. Half the country thinks like you pumpf - that Russia is suddenly our friend, we can trust them, Putin is a good guy and he didn't do those bad things because he told Trump they didn't do it, and Lord knows you can absolutely trust Trump to never lie. Never mind Trump lies constantly but somehow you don't question his credibility. The birther conspiracy theory? The crowd sizes? Mexico pay for the wall? Healthcare plan Day 1? Trade wars are easy to win? We had no contact with Russia? OK we met them but for adoptions?
I remember when Americans could agree that we should not cut Medicare, Medicaid, social security, education. Trump promised not cut funding for them or to rob social security, and then he does it .... and now you cheer it on. My friends in Europe are truly frightened at what's happening here and for good reason. America is under attack from within, reasonable people are believing in things that used to go against their own morals and ethics ... and this is how Nazi Germany started.
17.5 years ago, 9/11 happened. I watched with my own two eyes, the shitshow where supposedly 2 planes hit the twin towers, 1 plane hit the pentagon, 3 buildings that were designed to not fall down after being hit by planes all fell down looking exactly like a controlled demolition in their own footprint. Then they made up some theory (pancake theory) because they needed a reason to explain what happened. A theory that has never happened before or after. The 3rd building that collapsed wasn't even hit by a plane, it just magically started on fire and collapsed. Our government didn't send up any fighter jets, they just let them hit us. They took all the evidence and destroyed it. There was thermite at the bottom of the rubble burning for months. I watched the video where the BBC reported that WTC7 collapsed, while it was still standing in the background. I watched the media just parrot whatever the Bush administration wanted them to say. No investigative journalism was done.
9/11 opened my eyes to the truth that the media and the government worked together to shape a narrative that was sold to the people. The story that was sold about 9/11 had so many holes in it that it was impossible to believe. I watched us invade Iraq, who had nothing to do with 9/11, so that we can steal their oil. I watched us invade Afganistan, and you can look up poppy farm production, when the taliban controlled Afghanistan, and when we controlled Afghanistan. Taliban, no poppies. America, poppies.
Then you watch the US through history arming "rebels" to fight against our enemy and then a few years later we're fighting against them. You have Prescott Bush funding Nazi Germany. You have Clinton proclaiming to have balanced the budget, when he just took money from social security to use for the general budget. You have us tearing through latin america installing puppet dictatorships. You have Arkancide, where people close to the Clintons mysteriously die, often before they're about to testify in court against the Clintons. You have this weird bizarre monetary system, where the banks get to loan you money they don't have and then charge you interest, where no one knows how much a dollar is worth because it's constantly changing. How much is your house worth? But we'll give you a loan for half your life and you can pay us 3 times what the house is worth in interest payments. You've got the rotating door between being a director of a multinational corporation and then being on some political entity that regulates the people that paid you a boat load. You've got no president trying to stop the exportation of all jobs to Mexico and China. Just pure free trade.
I feel like I could just keep going on an on. The politicians, the media, the 3 letter agencies. They've been very questionable for my entire adult life. I've never voted Democrat or Republican, because I don't support this non-sense sham of a government we've had during my life.
If all these people hate Trump, I feel like I only have two options: 1) Trump's the real deal (or controlled by people who are the real deal), and they're actually fighting each other. 2) Everyone's in on it in an even bigger conspiracy theory, and this whole things a sham.
Russia? Who cares about Russia? Someone needs to drain the swamp. If it's Trump, great. If it's someone that comes after Trump, also great. People all over the world are causing troubles for their sham political leaderships. It's not just here.
I want it to be clear that you don't have to agree with the 9-11 conspiracy theory in this post to be on the "right" side of the aisle. I hate the media for their lies as much as the next guy but I do think 9-11 was caused by jets and crazy dudes bent on destruction. That day changed the world. It was the single most influential day in my lifetime. The shit storm we've had since then has taught me that the terrorists won that day.
Quote: @pumpf said:
@ SFVikeFan said:
Quote:
You know you don't know a fucking thing about me, what I do, what I support. My cousin has Down Syndrome. My business donates cash, materials, and volunteers and I sponsor an annual charity fundraiser for Special Olympics. You're just too much of a self-righteous piece of shit because you can't get over the fact I'm Pro-Choice and couldn't possibly have compassion for children and human beings in this country and on the planet.
It's why I'll never vote Republican because you're such fucking hypocrites. Bravo for the budget you Republicans crafted to ensure tax cuts for millionaires, let's really make American great for the rich. Cut funds to education? Check. Cut funds to CHIP - Children's healthcare programs? Check. Cut funds for welfare, meals on wheels? Check. The number of children in foster care is skyrocketing, the system is already over-burdened, and Republicans continue to de-fund numerous social programs to help these kids. Foster care program in my hometown in Oregon wouldn't pay for girls tampons. For fuck's sakes really?? But now in your self-righteous glory, you want to add millions more to foster care while simultaneously supporting GOP budget cuts for these kids? Shut the fuck up hypocrite. You want them born but then you support a party that turns their backs on them the moment they leave the womb.
Maybe if you fake ass Christians actually showed an ounce of compassion for the living we could take you seriously, but budget cuts to fuck over the poor to fund the rich and your votes in favor of it show your true colors.
I would LOVE to hear the mental gymnastics you would have to attempt in order to justify a woman being able to kill her unborn child- simply because he had Down Syndrome. The usual excuse is that they say they wouldn't want the child to suffer. Well, you know someone with DS; do they seem like they're suffering to you? No, I don't know you. But I know you support abortion. Thats' about all I need to know. If I said that I supported the Nazis, what else would you need to know about ME? Or if I sided with the Confederacy? I imagine I'd have a hard time saying that I loved my African-American cousin... AND I supported slavery.
You SAY you have compassion... yet you support people having the right to kill people like your cousin... or keep them from coming into existence. When it comes to this, I'm not "self-righteous". Just righteous. I'm trying to save human life- and declare that every life... at every stage... is awesome, beautiful and precious. AND my actions (life) back it up.
As for cuts? Your damn right there are cuts! You can't give the people you love everything you'd like to, either... and it's because you have a budget! So something has to give. MAYBE if Democrats weren't giving money away to every Tom, Dick and Harry (in order to get votes and keep power), we'd have money for more people who ACTUALLY NEED IT. You keep whining about "tax cuts for the rich"... well, those tax cuts have produced the lowest unemployment... the highest employment... and higher wages. Therefore, more people have jobs... and more people can spend money.
I believe that you genuinely do care about "other people", but you seem to be incredibly ignorant about how the real world works. $30 million was just spent on a hoax that most Democrats knew wasn't true... but they were fishing for SOMETHING they could use against Trump. So there's $30 million that could've helped people. And how about all the money that goes to PP? They have billions of dollars... yet the gov't continues to subsidize them. How many people could be helped with the hundreds of millions that they get in tax payer money? And, no: they don't do "women's health care". They do abortions. Period. If you say you care about women, then let's get your side and my side to take all of the money that's going to PP and give it to other women's health organizations (that will do everything that PP SAYS it does, except abortions)? I'll make sure that "my side" will do it. How about you?
As for foster care... give me a break! If you cared about kids, YOUR side wouldn't run Christian foster / adoption agencies out of business for refusing to compromise on their firmly and dearly held beliefs (regarding what's best for families). But, since those Christian organizations won't place children in homes with gay partners, they're not allowed to help anyone. And MORE kids remain in foster care / orphanages. Clearly that's not what's best for those kids. But who cares? They're just pawns in the intersectional identity game of politics.
The only "fake" Christians are those who claim to be followers of Christ... but then reject His teachings. Unfortunately, "fake" Christians think that the ONLY thing Jesus cared about was the poor. He did, of course. But He ALSO wanted His followers to care for them... not Rome. And that's why conservatives have ALWAYS given more to charities than liberals. Because they actually care about people... not just feeling good about themselves. Liberals could give more to charity... or more to the gov't (whom they entrust to do their charity work for them) Strangely, they don't give more money to the gov't than is required... nor do they ever ask the gov't to take more from them. But, yeah: liberals "care" about people.
Pumpf, the Republicans are just as criminal in their giving money to voters as the Democrats. The parties just have a different list of folks they "gift" it to. There no longer is a "spend less" party.
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