Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Canthony said:
@ Viking1987 said:
i think we will come out of the draft with two starting off linemen
You really only have to come out of it with one starter in the sense that you will move O'Neill over to LT and move Reiff to LG. If you can hit on just one lineman early... That gives you essentially an all new line.
how does moving 2 starters to new positions eliminate the need for 1 new starter?
Moving O'Neill to the LT spot allows us to fix the LG spot as you would move Reiff over. That fixes your LG spot and (assuming you resign) you can move Easton to RG. You will draft a G/T in the first round, and if you hit, you have your RG or RT fixed as well.
We really only need one new starter out of the draft as you have a RT and RG if need be in Collins and Easton/Jones (assuming we resign one of them
Quote: @Canthony said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Canthony said:
@ Viking1987 said:
i think we will come out of the draft with two starting off linemen
You really only have to come out of it with one starter in the sense that you will move O'Neill over to LT and move Reiff to LG. If you can hit on just one lineman early... That gives you essentially an all new line.
how does moving 2 starters to new positions eliminate the need for 1 new starter?
Moving O'Neill to the LT spot allows us to fix the LG spot as you would move Reiff over. That fixes your LG spot and (assuming you resign) you can move Easton to RG. You will draft a G/T in the first round, and if you hit, you have your RG or RT fixed as well.
We really only need one new starter out of the draft as you have a RT and RG if need be in Collins and Easton/Jones (assuming we resign one of them
When did they sign Easton?
so you are moving Easton and or Collins to the right side where they have never played and assuming one of them will work out. Easton is still a FA so its hard to figure him into any scenario until they sign him which then puts the pressure back on the draft to find 2 starters. I dont consider moving players to new positions as a fix for a lack of a starter at those positions since there is zero proof that they will make the moves.. essentially under your scenario I think it add more pressure to the problem since we go to only one player in a position that they have any experience which increases the fail rate substantially IMO.... to many failed moves from left to right, or from tackle to guard for me to have any faith in that plan at all any more.
Quote: @holmanjp said:
@ Canthony said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Canthony said:
@ Viking1987 said:
i think we will come out of the draft with two starting off linemen
You really only have to come out of it with one starter in the sense that you will move O'Neill over to LT and move Reiff to LG. If you can hit on just one lineman early... That gives you essentially an all new line.
how does moving 2 starters to new positions eliminate the need for 1 new starter?
Moving O'Neill to the LT spot allows us to fix the LG spot as you would move Reiff over. That fixes your LG spot and (assuming you resign) you can move Easton to RG. You will draft a G/T in the first round, and if you hit, you have your RG or RT fixed as well.
We really only need one new starter out of the draft as you have a RT and RG if need be in Collins and Easton/Jones (assuming we resign one of them
When did they sign Easton?
And coming off his injury, is he going to be an upgrade over Remmers?
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
The way they structured Barr's contact leaves room to fit Trae into the cap next season if they want to extend him.
Very curious to see what happens there. I like the idea of keeping the corners intact, but I keep looking over at the OL...as it sits...unimproved, while $84M of fully guaranteed money is hobbled until it is. And by losing Richardson a DT at 18 is going to be very tempting.
The O-line is literally a black hole at this point considering they don't even have a guard with experience on the roster. The rest of free agency will probably help shape the draft a little more. Barr was probably the kingpin since it now has opened up what I deem to be the most possibilities moving forward. At a minimum they will resign Easton and if not him someone who can compete for one of the interior spots with Aviante Collins. Then they'll definitely be adding 2-3 bodies through the draft.
D-line as a whole, Interior O-line, and TE are all deep which happen to be arguably some of the bigger needs. You should be able to find a starting caliber player day 1 at any of those position groups in each of rounds 1-3. Nice that they don't need to find a LB in a thin class.
EDIT - one more point to add. Although they haven't spent a ton of money on the O-line, think about the cost control if they were able to draft starters... Given the current NFL marketplace if they could successfully pull that off it'd give you the advantage teams with rookie QB's have.
It seems they are high on Collins with this size strength and speed ability, could be a nice fit for Dennison. Easton I believe is a easy resign, so let’s be honest with this draft, adding a OL via FA should be a vet G. Geoff what are your thoughts on Levitre and how could he fit under this Dennison ZBS? Is he a world beater, no, but could he be a Joe Berger? Yes. He could also be Compton, but with Easton, Collins, and say a 2nd round pick, Levitre has to earn his spot.
This draft must be about the trenches because of the talent and our cap situation. Imagine if we could grab a legit starting OG and a solid development T (to take over for a starting spot in 2020). The OL cost would allow us to keep our more expensive toys aka secondary, WRs and Cook.
Bringing back Easton, signing a Levitre type and restructuing EG would give us the foundation of the trenches to add some talent via rounds 1 (DT) 2 (OG) and 4 (OT)
the depth chart could be:
DE: Hunter, Weatherley, part time Griff, part time Barr, Holmes
DT: Joseph, 1st Round, Shemar, Johnson & Johnson, part time Griff
with multiple OL Combos:
Reiff-Levitre/Eastom-Elf-2nd Round/Collins-ONeill with Jones, Hill, 4th Rd OT
or
ONeill-Reiff-Elf-2nd Rd-Collins with Easton, Jones, Hill, Levitre, 4th Rd OT
I love the flexibility of Collins as I believe he can play well inside or at RT
This is would be a much better OL versus last year and I believe better than 17 with a healthy ELF. The DL will benefit from Griff potentially playing more inside taking over some of Richardson’s duties, having Shemar in for running downs. Barr and Weatherly adding to Hunter on the edges gives us more athleticism while being flexible for more exotic looks. This defense can really return to form if Joseph has a good year and Wilson can learn to be a little more patient. His speed could be ideal for 2019 football and keep our defense flexible.
Fact, teams move Rookies to a different spot on the Line then the last spot they played in College WITH success pretty much every damned year.
Fact, most kids going in the first 3 Rounds played more than one spot on the Line in College.
Fact, NFL Teams move guys to different spots on their Line every single year due to Injury instead of just bringing in the next guy on the Depth Chart.
I'm sorry, but just because Joe Thomas said something does not refute years and years worth of examples to the contrary.
The contextual piece that I think is missing from 99% of the complaints about moving guys around that I read here is one word: TALENT.
Guys with Talent can move around without destroying chemistry or performance.
Now when you're talking about League Average or worse moving around it's a whole other story. And frankly, Minnesota hasn't had enough Talent in ages, eons or eras to shuffle.
Reiff, Elf and O'Neill have Talent. So do a bunch of kids in this Draft. Easton was starting to show some too and I have high hopes for Collins. Compton, Remmers, Isadora, not so much.
Add more Talent and let proven Coaches like Kubes and Dennison figure out who fits best where.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
so you are moving Easton and or Collins to the right side where they have never played and assuming one of them will work out. Easton is still a FA so its hard to figure him into any scenario until they sign him which then puts the pressure back on the draft to find 2 starters. I dont consider moving players to new positions as a fix for a lack of a starter at those positions since there is zero proof that they will make the moves.. essentially under your scenario I think it add more pressure to the problem since we go to only one player in a position that they have any experience which increases the fail rate substantially IMO.... to many failed moves from left to right, or from tackle to guard for me to have any faith in that plan at all any more.
I don't see it that way. By moving O'Neal to the LT spot and Reiff to the RG spot, that gives you the fix for the whole left side of the line. Your LT, LG, and C are all set in stone.
You get the first pick of the draft correct and hit on that lineman, then you have one position that you can find either on your squad or in FA. You hit on a RT and you have your options with Easton, which I am expecting to resign, and a young guy.
Quote: @Canthony said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
so you are moving Easton and or Collins to the right side where they have never played and assuming one of them will work out. Easton is still a FA so its hard to figure him into any scenario until they sign him which then puts the pressure back on the draft to find 2 starters. I dont consider moving players to new positions as a fix for a lack of a starter at those positions since there is zero proof that they will make the moves.. essentially under your scenario I think it add more pressure to the problem since we go to only one player in a position that they have any experience which increases the fail rate substantially IMO.... to many failed moves from left to right, or from tackle to guard for me to have any faith in that plan at all any more.
I don't see it that way. By moving O'Neal to the LT spot and Reiff to the RG spot, that gives you the fix for the whole left side of the line. Your LT, LG, and C are all set in stone.
You get the first pick of the draft correct and hit on that lineman, then you have one position that you can find either on your squad or in FA. You hit on a RT and you have your options with Easton, which I am expecting to resign, and a young guy.
you are Hoping that ONeill can play on the left side and Hoping that Rieff can kick inside at OG, Hoping that Easton (or other) is able to go to the right side and come back from his injury, and then hoping that we can get a day 1 starting RT in the draft.... thats a lot of hope... and like marky mark says "Hope is not a tactic". Sorry bud, I just see to many moving parts for this plan to be successful.
Quote: @Canthony said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Canthony said:
@ Viking1987 said:
i think we will come out of the draft with two starting off linemen
You really only have to come out of it with one starter in the sense that you will move O'Neill over to LT and move Reiff to LG. If you can hit on just one lineman early... That gives you essentially an all new line.
how does moving 2 starters to new positions eliminate the need for 1 new starter?
Moving O'Neill to the LT spot allows us to fix the LG spot as you would move Reiff over. That fixes your LG spot and (assuming you resign) you can move Easton to RG. You will draft a G/T in the first round, and if you hit, you have your RG or RT fixed as well.
We really only need one new starter out of the draft as you have a RT and RG if need be in Collins and Easton/Jones (assuming we resign one of them
Now you want to move 3 guys around? I don't like it...
Quote: @pumpf said:
@ Canthony said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Canthony said:
@ Viking1987 said:
i think we will come out of the draft with two starting off linemen
You really only have to come out of it with one starter in the sense that you will move O'Neill over to LT and move Reiff to LG. If you can hit on just one lineman early... That gives you essentially an all new line.
how does moving 2 starters to new positions eliminate the need for 1 new starter?
Moving O'Neill to the LT spot allows us to fix the LG spot as you would move Reiff over. That fixes your LG spot and (assuming you resign) you can move Easton to RG. You will draft a G/T in the first round, and if you hit, you have your RG or RT fixed as well.
We really only need one new starter out of the draft as you have a RT and RG if need be in Collins and Easton/Jones (assuming we resign one of them
Now you want to move 3 guys around? I don't like it...
I agree, if the goal is to move ONeill to LT, then draft a RT this year to battle ONeill and if he is able to hold down the spot then let ONeill compete with Reiff at LT... or draft a LT to compete with Reiff for now and leave ONeill at RT... otherwise leave them both alone and look to improve the interior OL play since we really werent hurt often by Reiff or ONeill last year except that we had to keep pushing Reiff out there when he was hurt because there was no quality players behind him to let him recover.
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