Quote: @Zanary said:
@ holmanjp said:
Why does Kirk need the best trio of WR's?
Who was the number 3 in MN in 2017?
There is talk of getting him a better TE also.
Kyle ranked 7th and 10th in catches, yards, and TD's
Who was the TE for MN in 2017?
Just improve the O lime and stop with the excuses for this guy already.
All the experts said MN needed a better QB than they had in 2017.
So they fixed that with Kirk.
Now that it backfired, the rest of the team somehow needs improving?
How did it backfire? The OL had a truly horrible season, Cook was still out much of the time, and our initial OC wasn't working well with Zimmer.
Oh, and that "3rd receiver", despite Cousins' attempts to work with him, is an undeniable bust...one that cost the Vikings dearly in some games.
Cousins has a TON to do to live up to his contract, but if the line can't keep a QB upright...any QB is toast. The game is still won and lost in the trenches.
In the meantime, Cousins still managed numbers the Vikings hadn't seen in years...so the people determined to paint him as a failure are bizarre to me. 2017 was not that long ago!
Yes Kirk did start 16 games, congrats to him.
The scrub last year also started 16 games,(14 reg + 2 playoff games) had over 4100 yards and 25 TD's
Now granted he only made 2 million, so expectations were low for him?
I'm sorry but 4000 yards when you have 2 top 8 WR's and a top 7 TE doesn't really impress me.
Also if your 3rd in the league at attempts you better be passing for 4000 yards or packing your bags.
Now had he came here, with an even average win% against teams with winning records, and shit the bed against them.
I would maybe think it had to do with his supporting cast. Nope, he is who he is, wins against below average team not
named Bills. Always an excuse for this guy.
Quote: @holmanjp said:
2017 was not that long ago!
Yes Kirk did start 16 games, congrats to him.
The scrub last year also started 16 games,(14 reg + 2 playoff games) had over 4100 yards and 25 TD's
Now granted he only made 2 million, so expectations were low for him?
I'm sorry but 4000 yards when you have 2 top 8 WR's and a top 7 TE doesn't really impress me.
Also if your 3rd in the league at attempts you better be passing for 4000 yards or packing your bags.
Now had he came here, with an even average win% against teams with winning records, and shit the bed against them.
I would maybe think it had to do with his supporting cast. Nope, he is who he is, wins against below average team not
named Bills. Always an excuse for this guy.
Well assuming that we’re stuck with Cousins because of his
massive guaranteed contract, and assuming that you would rather win than see Cousins sucking, how would you go about maximizing our offense’s
performance?
Quote: @medaille said:
@ holmanjp said:
2017 was not that long ago!
Yes Kirk did start 16 games, congrats to him.
The scrub last year also started 16 games,(14 reg + 2 playoff games) had over 4100 yards and 25 TD's
Now granted he only made 2 million, so expectations were low for him?
I'm sorry but 4000 yards when you have 2 top 8 WR's and a top 7 TE doesn't really impress me.
Also if your 3rd in the league at attempts you better be passing for 4000 yards or packing your bags.
Now had he came here, with an even average win% against teams with winning records, and shit the bed against them.
I would maybe think it had to do with his supporting cast. Nope, he is who he is, wins against below average team not
named Bills. Always an excuse for this guy.
Well assuming that we’re stuck with Cousins because of his
massive guaranteed contract, and assuming that you would rather win than see Cousins sucking, how would you go about maximizing our offense’s
performance?
Run the ball 60%
Tell him if he ever has 3 or more 3 and outs to start a game, he will not start next week
Call other teams, see if anyone wants him offer a 3rd to take him.
Offer Kirk a new van, if he gets rid of his no trade clause.
Not as much as finding 2 guards who can block my grandmother.
Quote: @holmanjp said:
@ medaille said:
@ holmanjp said:
2017 was not that long ago!
Yes Kirk did start 16 games, congrats to him.
The scrub last year also started 16 games,(14 reg + 2 playoff games) had over 4100 yards and 25 TD's
Now granted he only made 2 million, so expectations were low for him?
I'm sorry but 4000 yards when you have 2 top 8 WR's and a top 7 TE doesn't really impress me.
Also if your 3rd in the league at attempts you better be passing for 4000 yards or packing your bags.
Now had he came here, with an even average win% against teams with winning records, and shit the bed against them.
I would maybe think it had to do with his supporting cast. Nope, he is who he is, wins against below average team not
named Bills. Always an excuse for this guy.
Well assuming that we’re stuck with Cousins because of his
massive guaranteed contract, and assuming that you would rather win than see Cousins sucking, how would you go about maximizing our offense’s
performance?
Run the ball 60%
Tell him if he ever has 3 or more 3 and outs to start a game, he will not start next week
Call other teams, see if anyone wants him offer a 3rd to take him.
Offer Kirk a new van, if he gets rid of his no trade clause.
So minimalistic approach to him is your answer? Lets take the game away from him and find a way to run him off without any better option on the roster is your solution? Sounds like I'm glad you're not running things.
Quote: The @holmanjp said:
@ Zanary said:
@ holmanjp said:
Why does Kirk need the best trio of WR's?
Who was the number 3 in MN in 2017?
There is talk of getting him a better TE also.
Kyle ranked 7th and 10th in catches, yards, and TD's
Who was the TE for MN in 2017?
Just improve the O lime and stop with the excuses for this guy already.
All the experts said MN needed a better QB than they had in 2017.
So they fixed that with Kirk.
Now that it backfired, the rest of the team somehow needs improving?
How did it backfire? The OL had a truly horrible season, Cook was still out much of the time, and our initial OC wasn't working well with Zimmer.
Oh, and that "3rd receiver", despite Cousins' attempts to work with him, is an undeniable bust...one that cost the Vikings dearly in some games.
Cousins has a TON to do to live up to his contract, but if the line can't keep a QB upright...any QB is toast. The game is still won and lost in the trenches.
In the meantime, Cousins still managed numbers the Vikings hadn't seen in years...so the people determined to paint him as a failure are bizarre to me. 2017 was not that long ago!
Yes Kirk did start 16 games, congrats to him.
The scrub last year also started 16 games,(14 reg + 2 playoff games) had over 4100 yards and 25 TD's
Now granted he only made 2 million, so expectations were low for him?
I'm sorry but 4000 yards when you have 2 top 8 WR's and a top 7 TE doesn't really impress me.
Also if your 3rd in the league at attempts you better be passing for 4000 yards or packing your bags.
Now had he came here, with an even average win% against teams with winning records, and shit the bed against them.
I would maybe think it had to do with his supporting cast. Nope, he is who he is, wins against below average team not
named Bills. Always an excuse for this guy.
Keenum did not do that well this year did he? Cousins win percentage stats against winning teams is one the most disingenuous stats to bring up. Who cares what they did in Washington? That defense was terrible all 3 years (which were his first 3 years starting ever) giving up an average of 24 points per game.
Cousins last season in Washington they did not re-sgin DJack and Garcon and replaced them with Pryor. They had zero running game and a ton of injuries on the line. Of course he put up numbers because they could not run.
The Vikings could not run the ball this year that well. Cook misses 6 of the first 8 games and during that time Thielen is setting records for 100 yard receiving games.
It was fairly obvious that JDF was substituting the short passes for runs. But some people want to say that Cousins YPC was low because that is all he does.
The Vikings chemistry was messed up by Zimmer badgering JDF constantly and not letting his young OC do his thing and learn on the job. Zimmer had to know what JDF would be like if he did any due diligence before hiring him. He then did not mentor the young coach apparently. Canning him with 3 games to go did nothing for the offense. They would have beat the Dolphins and Lions with JDF as they had shown throughout the year vs not so good teams.
Treadwell is a bust. Period. There are not catch % stats that are going to save him from his career numbers that are in the record books for all time next to his name.
Why did the Eagles need Tate? They had Jeffrey, Algohor, Ertz, and Goedert. What was Roseman thinking getting another weapon for Wentz and Foles?
The Rams got Cook to go with Woods and Kupp while having Gurley and drafted Everett. Why do they need 3 WRs?
The notion that the Vikings do not need another WR is crazy thinking.
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
The @ holmanjp said:
@ Zanary said:
@ holmanjp said:
Why does Kirk need the best trio of WR's?
Who was the number 3 in MN in 2017?
There is talk of getting him a better TE also.
Kyle ranked 7th and 10th in catches, yards, and TD's
Who was the TE for MN in 2017?
Just improve the O lime and stop with the excuses for this guy already.
All the experts said MN needed a better QB than they had in 2017.
So they fixed that with Kirk.
Now that it backfired, the rest of the team somehow needs improving?
How did it backfire? The OL had a truly horrible season, Cook was still out much of the time, and our initial OC wasn't working well with Zimmer.
Oh, and that "3rd receiver", despite Cousins' attempts to work with him, is an undeniable bust...one that cost the Vikings dearly in some games.
Cousins has a TON to do to live up to his contract, but if the line can't keep a QB upright...any QB is toast. The game is still won and lost in the trenches.
In the meantime, Cousins still managed numbers the Vikings hadn't seen in years...so the people determined to paint him as a failure are bizarre to me. 2017 was not that long ago!
Yes Kirk did start 16 games, congrats to him.
The scrub last year also started 16 games,(14 reg + 2 playoff games) had over 4100 yards and 25 TD's
Now granted he only made 2 million, so expectations were low for him?
I'm sorry but 4000 yards when you have 2 top 8 WR's and a top 7 TE doesn't really impress me.
Also if your 3rd in the league at attempts you better be passing for 4000 yards or packing your bags.
Now had he came here, with an even average win% against teams with winning records, and shit the bed against them.
I would maybe think it had to do with his supporting cast. Nope, he is who he is, wins against below average team not
named Bills. Always an excuse for this guy.
Keenum did not do that well this year did he?
Looking at year end stats/games won, you could say he did not do well..
After 8 games his #1 WR was lost for the year
After game 11 his only receiving TE was lost for the year
His #2 WR missed the last 4 games.
People are making excuses that Kirk needs another WR, while arguing Case didn't do well in Den.
They won more games than they did in 2017, he had 2100 yards after 8 games. while he had 2 WR's and a TE.
Another excuses is the hard scheduled MN played
Den played
10-6 Hawks
10-6 Ravens
12-4 Chiefs
13-3 Rams
12-4 Chiefs
11-5 Texans
12-4 Chargers
9-6-1 Steelers
12-4 Chargers
With Kirk's history and Zim's (against +.500 teams) minus (2017 with MR horse shoe) those above games for MN would almost guarantee a loss.
So ya after Case lost the equivalent of Adam after games 8 Kyle after game 11 and Stefon for the last 4 games.
Add in the teams they faced.
How well would Kirk had done if he was the QB in Den and Case had stayed in MN.(both teams had same injury's)
Only difference was QB's played for different teams.
I honestly think MN would have been now worse than 8-8 with Case and Den would have been no better than 7-9
with Kirk.
Another thought
Had MN played the 9 games listed above, plus the Bears,Pack, and Lions twice each, and the Bills.
Adam Kyle Stefon missed same amount of games as Den's WR's.
What would Mn record have been?
3 wins for sure Lions twice Pack once.
Maybe they beat Steelers.
They could have easily ended with only 4 wins.
In all reality, they probably don't beat the Lions (second game) with out Adam,Kyle and Stefon.
It's no secret, I'm not a believer that Kirk can make a team better.
Had he lost his 3 WR's and played the 9 games listed above, I would not blame him for a 6 win season.
Somehow, Case is the scapegoat in Den!!! They were a shitty team before he got there.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
That 3rd receiver is a need that is much more likely to be filled in the draft. Speaking of which, there is a Diggs Jr. in Deebo Samuel and a Thielen look alike in Riley Ridley. Possible both could be there in the 2nd round.
I don't know much about most college players but I do know Deebo Samuel. I've watched his whole career. When healthy he reminds me a lot of Percy Harvin, without the attitude and the headaches (literally). I have no idea how late Deebo will be selected but someone is going to have a play-making football player on their team. I'd love for it to be the Vikes.
Quote: @SouthCarolinaViking said:
@ MaroonBells said:
That 3rd receiver is a need that is much more likely to be filled in the draft. Speaking of which, there is a Diggs Jr. in Deebo Samuel and a Thielen look alike in Riley Ridley. Possible both could be there in the 2nd round.
I don't know much about most college players but I do know Deebo Samuel. I've watched his whole career. When healthy he reminds me a lot of Percy Harvin, without the attitude and the headaches (literally). I have no idea how late Deebo will be selected but someone is going to have a play-making football player on their team. I'd love for it to be the Vikes.
That's good to know, SC. I didn't know anything about him until the Senior Bowl, where he was breaking ankles left and right. Seems to be a precise route runner, smart, savvy, separates.
My guess he goes somewhere between 40 and 60.
Quote: @holmanjp said:
@ suncoastvike said:
@ holmanjp said:
@ suncoastvike said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Here’s how Cousins performed when targeted each of his receivers that year (per Pro Football Focus):
— Garcon: 110 targets, 102.9 rating
— Crowder: 92 targets, 112.9 rating
— Jackson: 89 targets, 107.2 rating
Now compare that to the 2018 Vikings receivers.
— Thielen: 149 targets, 115.4 rating
— Diggs: 141 targets, 107.9 rating
— Treadwell: 47 targets, 80.3 rating
This seems like a weak link. I'm pretty much done with this guy.
Well Kirk could have targeted Adam 39 and Diggs 49 fewer times and thrown to Tread 88 more times.
Thielen: 110
Diggs: 92
Threadwell: 135
There are only so many pass attempts in a year. Kirk was right near the top.
Okay Thread is the weak link.
Point is, you can get a better 3rd, all it does is takes away from the other 2.
Not the targets that's the issue. Maybe the rating for #3 would be higher like Kirk did in Washington.
He caught 66% which is right there with some big names like Jones and Brown.
QB rating low is because Kirk likes to throw 3 yard passes when its 3rd and 7.
So ya the play was not successful.
He only had 1 TD also a ding on the rating.
I wonder what his rating was throwing to Robinson?
Why is Kirk throwing a 3 yard pass on third down is not the question. Why did Treadwell and Rudolph continually run 3 yard routes on 3rd and 7. You rarely saw Diggs or Thielan run their routes short of the first down unless they were wide open and could get the first down with RAC.
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