Quote: @greediron said:
And I will add, going back to the OP. With a little humility, we can joke and poke fun at ourselves. Unless laughing may cause a crack in our rigidity.
Right???? I mean who hasn't made a joke about global warming when its so dang cold out? Even for us Southerners its pretty cold out. I've wanted to sign on for global warming all winter!!!!! 
Quote: @pumpf said:
Not sure who made the chart or where they got their information but to me that chart would say the standard deviations were off by an entire degree or more. In fact it looks like we probably fell 2 deviations outside the expected outcome which means data going in was either not reliable or the method used to calculate wasn't just flawed but completely screwed up.
What the chart says to me:
It shows that we ARE warming which I don't think anyone is arguing with at this point?
And humans aren't capable of predicting future climate change with out current models.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ greediron said:
And I will add, going back to the OP. With a little humility, we can joke and poke fun at ourselves. Unless laughing may cause a crack in our rigidity.
Right???? I mean who hasn't made a joke about global warming when its so dang cold out? Even for us Southerners its pretty cold out. I've wanted to sign on for global warming all winter!!!!!
Yes, even I have. We all know Trump is joking. It's what he does. The left/right game, the fight, the division...just read his twitter feed. It's why MAGA'merica loves him so much. But let's not forget that many in his base actually believe shit like that. And before you think that's harmless, I'll remind you of Death Panels and Birth Certificates and the War on Christians and the Border Crisis and Obama's Coming for your Guns and Black Panthers and Creeping Sharia...
Quote: @AGRforever said:
See!!!!! What yall don't understand is global warming IS causing the cold:
A polar vortex is engulfing the US. Here's what that really means, and why these events might be getting more common.
https://www.businessinsider.com/polar-vo...019-1?r=US&IR=T&utm_source=reddit.com
Look, I know we've got plenty of "climate experts" on VF but I'm kinda sick of any and every weather related event being caused by humans/global warming.
Well if this is what Winter in MN brings, wait until Summer hits Florida!
Quote: @BlackMagic7 said:
@ AGRforever said:
See!!!!! What yall don't understand is global warming IS causing the cold:
A polar vortex is engulfing the US. Here's what that really means, and why these events might be getting more common.
https://www.businessinsider.com/polar-vo...019-1?r=US&IR=T&utm_source=reddit.com
Look, I know we've got plenty of "climate experts" on VF but I'm kinda sick of any and every weather related event being caused by humans/global warming.
Well if this is what Winter in MN brings, wait until Summer hits Florida!
In related news Disney shares drop ten percent based on a weather forcast from a viking chat board member. Turns out VF has the best climate scientists!!!
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ greediron said:
And I will add, going back to the OP. With a little humility, we can joke and poke fun at ourselves. Unless laughing may cause a crack in our rigidity.
Right???? I mean who hasn't made a joke about global warming when its so dang cold out? Even for us Southerners its pretty cold out. I've wanted to sign on for global warming all winter!!!!!
Yes, even I have. We all know Trump is joking. It's what he does. The left/right game, the fight, the division...just read his twitter feed. It's why MAGA'merica loves him so much. But let's not forget that many in his base actually believe shit like that. And before you think that's harmless, I'll remind you of Death Panels and Birth Certificates and the War on Christians and the Border Crisis and Obama's Coming for your Guns and Black Panthers and Creeping Sharia...
Best thing that ever happened was Obama coming for our guns. Sales increases made dang sure theres enough firearms in red states to take on the government if the need ever arises.
Quote: @medaille said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
Lizard People? Come on, have you seen Hillary?
Yes, pollution has an effect. Breathing has an effect. Plants and trees have an effect on the environment. Politicians flying their private jets to an environmental gathering have an effect. What is up for debate is what that effect is, what the proper response is and should the response be forced.
What isn't up for debate is that people will manipulate the data to prove their point. That people will use that manipulated data to make money and raise funding. And to combat that blowback on those items, they will call people all sorts of names to shut down debate.
Yes, there's manipulation of data alright. Personally, I find it amusing deniers are so skeptical about the motives of scientists, but think Exxon is telling them the truth. Especially given the fact that coal and oil interests have funneled millions of dollars to climate skeptics in order to create the illusion of disagreement--to, according to their own documentation, "reposition global warming as theory rather than fact."
I am skeptical of any side that stands to profit off the manipulation of data. Right now that has been the side of the "scientists" that claim consensus is good enough. That fake data still matters. I don't put much stock into a scientist that tells everyone they should stop asking questions and accept a consensus. That speaks of money and politics, not science.
Do you feel the same way about evolution? Gravity? The idea that the earth revolves around the sun?
Can the minority be right? Of course it can. Truth is not determined by majority vote. But when they're outnumbered 10 to 1, don't you need a pretty compelling reason to side with the minority? You're probably as tired of this analogy as I am, but if 9 out of 10 mechanics say your car needs new brakes, isn't the burden now on you to prove to your family that the 1 dissenter is right and the 9 are wrong before you let them in the car?
The 9 out of 10 mechanics example isn’t really a 1-1
comparison. Neither is Gravity or orbits
or whatever. In the mechanics example,
the mechanics can look at your brakes, measure the pad thickness, etc. They can functionally verify that they are
working. They have seen thousands of
different sets of brakes, and the system has a handful of moving parts that all
work in a simple manner. With regards to
gravity and planetary orbits, we have centuries of observations and data to
more or less confirm that the theories are accurate enough to use. We’ve used those equations to send men to the
moon, we’ve sent probes and slingshotted them around planets on carefully
planned routes. We have thoroughly tested those equations.
With climate change, we only have computer models that are
trying to model a living planet with millions of variables that interact with
each other in complex ways and they’re trying to figure out which variables are
the ones that really matter. But how do
you know a computer model is accurate? You
have to test it and see if it correctly predicts the outputs based on the
inputs. How do you test something that
will take decades or centuries to provide an answer to you?
You just answered your own question. Theres a reason China abandoned coal plants. Theres a reason NASA, the military and numerous government agencies agree on climate change theory.
The earth has gone through changes of warming and cooling. However those changes took place over tens of thousands, millions of years. Now its happening over decades and centuries. It is the accelerated rate of change that's alarming. Coral reefs are dying for a reason. Ecosystems are being destroyed as the rapid change doesn't allow them to gradually adapt over time.
By the time Pumpf gets his necessary demand for 100% scientific proof it will be too late.
Pumpf also missing the irony here ... a man of faith, with no proof God exists but revolves his entire life around this concept and a story he can not prove is true, refuses to accept any information from scientists and climatologists without proof that they are 100% accurate.
Christians reject the accuracy of modern science but ask everyone to believe the validity of a 2000 year old book of eye witnesses as gospel.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
See!!!!! What yall don't understand is global warming IS causing the cold:
A polar vortex is engulfing the US. Here's what that really means, and why these events might be getting more common.
https://www.businessinsider.com/polar-vo...019-1?r=US&IR=T&utm_source=reddit.com
Look, I know we've got plenty of "climate experts" on VF but I'm kinda sick of any and every weather related event being caused by humans/global warming.
I think even to the most conservative of us we realize that humans burning fossil fuels releases CO2 into the air. What most would question is:
1. To what extent can we curb fossil fuel use without blowing up the economy?
2. Even if we made a say 50% or 75% or 99% reduction in CO2 would it make any difference?3. Most of these doomsdayers have huge financial incentives to manipulate/massage data to make it say what they want to. Why should we trust them?4. The 99% of climate experts agree statement was fake news before the term was invented. Why do you keep using it?5. After everything is said and done as the liberals see it.....does Al Gore still get to fly on his private jet and live in his +10K square foot house?
#3 makes no sense. Who stands to profit more - big oil companies who have trillions of profits at stake to discredit scientists around the world to have the green light to pollute the planet, or the people who are conducting research with the motivation to save the planet. It's ridiculous to suggest climatologists have something to gain financially, but climate change deniers do not.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Do you feel the same way about evolution? Gravity?
Do you understand science? Theory vs law?
**mic drop**
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
Well there is some good news. NBC has recently changed its policy about climate change. It will no longer invite climate deniers on its shows to "debate" the issue, as if there were one. About 10 years too late, NBC, but baby steps.
Yes. Because if there was ever an authority on climate change, it's an assembled NBC News panel.
Be warned, however. Could all be just a deflection to get the news lede off the racist Dean of NBC news, xenophobe Tom Brokaw.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/28/opinions/...index.html
oops. Strike the 'xenophobe' characterization. He's just an ignoramus << per CNN.
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