So disappointing...
There was a time not too long ago he was my favorite Viking. He and Teddy were the shining, young north stars,. This was just back in 2015 when we won the North in Lamblow and havent looked back.
Remember the donut club pix back in Winter Park? Now the heroes taking us forward are a completely different cast of characters.
Crazy world this NFL.
Pete Bercich may be a shill for the Vikings and not inclined to throw anyone under the bus, but I think his take is credible. He says Barr's return opens up a myriad of options for the Vikings defense.
Part of the reason Barr doesn't put up gaudy stats is because opposing teams game plan for him. His value is that he does a little bit of everything. He is a good enough pass rusher that you need to assign protection for him. He's also good enough in coverage to play man against TE's and has the speed to get from the LOS out into the flat. In the run game the Vikings use him to set the pin (control the middle of the field to prevent cutbacks) which allows everyone else to play downhill. So he naturally isn't going to get a ton of tackles. Tl;Dr watch him off the ball and you'll quickly see how talented he is.
Ultimately it will be a numbers game. From a value perspective he probably makes a top 10 defense into a top 5 defense. That's worth something. But from an asset allocation standpoint its not cost efficient to lock up $20M+ in your linebackers. The modern NFL is predicated on getting after the CB playing coverage.
TBD what will actually happen but Barr is worth a top 5 LB contract on the open market. Even if the Vikings let him walk I don't think that would indicate he isn't a talented player or isn't worth the money in the least bit. He would be a really nice fit on the Colts who'll have money this off-season.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
Part of the reason Barr doesn't put up gaudy stats is because opposing teams game plan for him. His value is that he does a little bit of everything. He is a good enough pass rusher that you need to assign protection for him. He's also good enough in coverage to play man against TE's and has the speed to get from the LOS out into the flat. In the run game the Vikings use him to set the pin (control the middle of the field to prevent cutbacks) which allows everyone else to play downhill. So he naturally isn't going to get a ton of tackles. Tl;Dr watch him off the ball and you'll quickly see how talented he is.
Ultimately it will be a numbers game. From a value perspective he probably makes a top 10 defense into a top 5 defense. That's worth something. But from an asset allocation standpoint its not cost efficient to lock up $20M+ in your linebackers. The modern NFL is predicated on getting after the CB playing coverage.
TBD what will actually happen but Barr is worth a top 5 LB contract on the open market. Even if the Vikings let him walk I don't think that would indicate he isn't a talented player or isn't worth the money in the least bit. He would be a really nice fit on the Colts who'll have money this off-season.
Barr is the highest paid 4-3 OLB this season at 12.3 mil.
The top 5 average per year for 4-3 OLBs is 10.845 mil.
It is going to be an interesting decision they make with Barr.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
Part of the reason Barr doesn't put up gaudy stats is because opposing teams game plan for him. His value is that he does a little bit of everything. He is a good enough pass rusher that you need to assign protection for him. He's also good enough in coverage to play man against TE's and has the speed to get from the LOS out into the flat. In the run game the Vikings use him to set the pin (control the middle of the field to prevent cutbacks) which allows everyone else to play downhill. So he naturally isn't going to get a ton of tackles. Tl;Dr watch him off the ball and you'll quickly see how talented he is.
Ultimately it will be a numbers game. From a value perspective he probably makes a top 10 defense into a top 5 defense. That's worth something. But from an asset allocation standpoint its not cost efficient to lock up $20M+ in your linebackers. The modern NFL is predicated on getting after the CB playing coverage.
TBD what will actually happen but Barr is worth a top 5 LB contract on the open market. Even if the Vikings let him walk I don't think that would indicate he isn't a talented player or isn't worth the money in the least bit. He would be a really nice fit on the Colts who'll have money this off-season.
Very good points and analysis. I think jimmy said it more simply, but I appreciate this detail more. Often folks will look to stats to depict the player's worth, when it doesn't tell the whole picture. It reminds me of another past Viking LB who had polarizing comments and feelings from the fanbase for his contributions; Ben Leber. Like Barr, Ben was often criticized for not getting enough tackles, picks, etc, but both provided stability, trust, and leadership.
The difference is that Barr is an athletic freak who appears that he should be lighting the world on fire like Mack. In that comparison, Barr is also tied to Mack in the sense that rumors were Zimmer coveted him more than any player in that draft and he went before the Vikings could pick and Zim "settled" for Barr instead.
Lastly, I like the pairing of Barr and Leonard in Indy, but I would prefer he be kept with the Vikings first, if that's possible.
I am still bummed we missed out on Roquon Smith this year and even more bummed he went to an NFC foe, but we do really need to find another LB in the upcoming draft to provide depth and insurance.
Interesting to me they prioritized Kendricks over Barr...Maybe he's having a better year than I think he's having???
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
Interesting to me they prioritized Kendricks over Barr...Maybe he's having a better year than I think he's having???
Did they prioritize Kendricks, or was he just easier to sign? Kendricks was making less than $1M last year, he was happy to get a signing bonus and bump that put him at a level that still only costs about $3M against this year's cap. Barr, OTOH, has +$12M guaranteed this season and the Vikings probably wanted to reduce that in a long-term deal. IMO he just didn't want to surrender this year's big salary.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Interesting to me they prioritized Kendricks over Barr...Maybe he's having a better year than I think he's having???
Did they prioritize Kendricks, or was he just easier to sign? Kendricks was making less than $1M last year, he was happy to get a signing bonus and bump that put him at a level that still only costs about $3M against this year's cap. Barr, OTOH, has +$12M guaranteed this season and the Vikings probably wanted to reduce that in a long-term deal. IMO he just didn't want to surrender this year's big salary.
Kendricks' deal was similar to Thielen's IMO. Good, emerging relatively inexpensive player that you know want long term. Signing him early could be much more cost-efficient than waiting. Barr is another story entirely. Top 10 pick. Supremely talented. Top-level market value. But somewhat inconsistent, and questionable whether he'd be better in a 3-4. That's got wait and see all over it.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Interesting to me they prioritized Kendricks over Barr...Maybe he's having a better year than I think he's having???
Did they prioritize Kendricks, or was he just easier to sign? Kendricks was making less than $1M last year, he was happy to get a signing bonus and bump that put him at a level that still only costs about $3M against this year's cap. Barr, OTOH, has +$12M guaranteed this season and the Vikings probably wanted to reduce that in a long-term deal. IMO he just didn't want to surrender this year's big salary.
Kendricks' deal was similar to Thielen's IMO. Good, emerging relatively inexpensive player that you know want long term. Signing him early could be much more cost-efficient than waiting. Barr is another story entirely. Top 10 pick. Supremely talented. Top-level market value. But somewhat inconsistent, and questionable whether he'd be better in a 3-4. That's got wait and see all over it.
It was probably a combination of both your thoughts. The Vikings got the structure they wanted. In essence they signed Kendricks to a 3 year $23.7M deal, after that its performance based. That would be around the 10th highest inside LB in the game and Kendricks would fall into that category. It was a deal with a lot of window dressing and protected both sides.
As you said Maroon, Barr's deal will be much more complicated. I think the largest barrier was the $12M option. Any future money would have been worked into that and used against the total guarantee. For example if he signed a 5 year extension worth $60M with $30M guaranteed the $12M they were always going to pay him this season would effectively make it a 5 year deal with only $18M guaranteed. It's just a hard negotiating point since the Vikings would have to go against their typical contract language. Barr was effectively on the tag this season and now they'll be able to figure out his true value. The hard part is that the franchise tag in 2019 includes EDGE players which eliminates that from being an option.
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