Vikings Defense and the Big Play

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The Eagles changed things up in the Playoffs because their normal schemes weren't getting anything done offensively once the backup became the full time Starter. The Vikings Defense wasn't in even remotely the same situation.

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@suncoastvike said:

@"BarrNone55" said:
Pre Zimmer, getting off the field on third down WAS a big play...

This is true. However my question is how many teams win championships playing safe? Seems more win by selling out and going all in.  Maybe his way will work. Just seems to me the prize usually goes to the aggressive. He is 1-2 in the playoffs and was a miracle away from 0-2. I know Walsh should have...regardless. Maybe use your formula to get 13 regular season wins then open it up. Or maybe I'm way off base.

Belichik seemed to have some success with another defense that stresses fundamentals.  As much as I dislike both he and the Pats alike, he and Zimmer are both Parcells disciples and that means fundamentals first and foremost.

Changing things up is always on the table, but part of the team's defensive slide late last season was due to wear-and-tear (and Griffen's foot issue) more than anything else.

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@TBro said:

@Wetlander said:

@TBro said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@TBro said:
I think there needs to be a better balance than what we saw last year. When we faced better teams and just sat back and stayed home, we were exposed big time, especially against the Saints and Eagles. Those are also tendencies that can be exploited by better coaching staffs and were in both of those games. Barr had 1 sack last year. Zimmer needs to put him in a position to be more disruptive. He was an amazing pass rusher in college so why not utilize those skills more. Just one example, but there was definitely something off with this team at the end of season where we seemed to sit back and the let the offense dictate want they wanted to do. 

I would hardly call what they did to the saints for the first game and a half "sitting back",  I think the offense setting the saints up in the 2nd half had as much to do with their come back.   as far as the eagles,  the D was physically and emotionally gassed and they really didnt have anything to prepare for.  there needed to be more rotation early in the year to keep guys healthier/fresher down the stretch IMO.  Has blitzing Brees ever been the answer to beating him?  

Jimmy,

Nobody said anything about Blitzing Brees. There are several ways to generate pressure on the QB without bringing extra rushers. All I'm saying is that always playing the "stay in your lane" disciplined style that Zimmer preaches also creates tendencies that good Coaches will gameplan against and exploit. You have to change it up and totally agree that Zimmer failed big time on his DLine rotations which he admitted to in the offseason. I think having a coach like DeFillippo who was on the other sideline can certainly bring that outsider perspective to correct some of those issues this season. Time will tell if they learned from those mistakes. 

I think you're incredibly off base with this line of thinking...  You make it sound like he's a bland, stubborn defensive coach that runs the same formations time and time again.

The beauty of his defense is that it's multiple and exotic, meaning he can run a variety of coverages, blitzes, and pressure packages out of a number of different formations to keep the opposing offense guessing.

The guy is a defensive genius, quit making him sound like Leslie freaking Frazier...

I never compared him to Leslie Frazier so I'm not sure why you are getting so defensive and getting off topic. He is one of the best defensive minds in the NFL, but he also is not perfect and makes mistakes. All I said is that I hope he learns from those mistakes regarding the defensive line rotation, being too conservative at times, and utilizing his playmakers on defense to be more disruptive which is what this post was discussing. 22 teams had more takeaways than the Vikings did last season which supports MB's statement regarding the lack of big plays by this defense. 

And largely the same group of players had 27 turnovers the year prior, which was better than 25 other teams.

I think the you and others have a valid argument that Zimmer could rotate more guys through to keep them fresh, but maybe just didn't have enough good pass rushers to do that?

He had to make due with two one dimensional 3Ts in Shamar Stephen (run stuffer) and Tom Johnson (undersized pass rushing DT).  Robison was a reserve and played quite a few snaps, but he would get a lot of those moving inside on obvious passing downs.

I'm not as high on Weatherly as some and Bower was an UDFA rookie...  Are you going to take Hunter or Griff off the field for one of those guys?  I wouldn't.

I think we'll be much better off this season from the sole fact that we finally added a "Geno Atkins" type player at 3T.  Sheldon Richardson is going to allow Zimmer more flexibility to send Kendricks or Barr on his double A gap looks because teams won't be able to double team Griff and/or Linval.  If they do, we have the horses to beat single blocks and should have a free rusher more often than not.

I guess I don't have the same level of concern about a defense that was downright dominant for most of the season.

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i just hope griffen is just not wearing down. he has dissapeared down the stretch the last two years. Someone else needs to step up and push him at RDE.

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@kmillard said:
i just hope griffen is just not wearing down. he has dissapeared down the stretch the last two years. Someone else needs to step up and push him at RDE.

He's a guy that needs more rest early in the season.  When the game is in  hand we need to cycle our starters snaps down to less than half.  Don't do wholesale unit changes,  but work in  the reserves with the starters to get them experience and the 1s some rest.

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@JimmyinSD said:

@kmillard said:
i just hope griffen is just not wearing down. he has dissapeared down the stretch the last two years. Someone else needs to step up and push him at RDE.

He's a guy that needs more rest early in the season.  When the game is in  hand we need to cycle our starters snaps down to less than half.  Don't do wholesale unit changes,  but work in  the reserves with the starters to get them experience and the 1s some rest.

He takes on alot of double duty. Unfortunately we didn't have games in hand often enough to give him rest.  A few games early last year we dominated start to finish, Tampa, Chicago however most times the final score did not reflect how early we could breeze throughout the season. Even if it looked one sided at the end.
Richardson is going to help Griffen's health.

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@suncoastvike said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@kmillard said:
i just hope griffen is just not wearing down. he has dissapeared down the stretch the last two years. Someone else needs to step up and push him at RDE.

He's a guy that needs more rest early in the season.  When the game is in  hand we need to cycle our starters snaps down to less than half.  Don't do wholesale unit changes,  but work in  the reserves with the starters to get them experience and the 1s some rest.

He takes on alot of double duty. Unfortunately we didn't have games in hand often enough to give him rest.  A few games early last year we dominated start to finish, Tampa, Chicago however most times the final score did not reflect how early we could breeze throughout the season. Even if it looked one sided at the end.
Richardson is going to help Griffen's health.

There were several games along the way where he didn't need to be in the field.  Cleveland comes to mind.  I think that stupid sack streak kept him on the field more than it should.

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@JimmyinSD said:

@suncoastvike said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@kmillard said:
i just hope griffen is just not wearing down. he has dissapeared down the stretch the last two years. Someone else needs to step up and push him at RDE.

He's a guy that needs more rest early in the season.  When the game is in  hand we need to cycle our starters snaps down to less than half.  Don't do wholesale unit changes,  but work in  the reserves with the starters to get them experience and the 1s some rest.

He takes on alot of double duty. Unfortunately we didn't have games in hand often enough to give him rest.  A few games early last year we dominated start to finish, Tampa, Chicago however most times the final score did not reflect how early we could breeze throughout the season. Even if it looked one sided at the end.
Richardson is going to help Griffen's health.

There were several games along the way where he didn't need to be in the field.  Cleveland comes to mind.  I think that stupid sack streak kept him on the field more than it should.

Yeah Cleveland was close at the half then we dominated the 2nd half. Could have rested more in the 4th. Late in the year we controlled games more. Bengals, Pack and Bears. There were opportunities throughout the year I guess. Mostly our game was grinding down then putting away. That doesn't give you alot of halfs to rest guys. Maybe the last 10 minutes. 

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The only stat that matters on defense is points given up the rest are a means to that end.  Like said above, our turnover stats were much better the year before but who cares we were the #1 defense in points given up and 13-3.  

The whole team collapsed vs the Eagles but the Defense was fine vs the Saints.  They shut Bree's down like no defense had done for all year for 3 Quarters until Keenum's Int set them up at our 30 and then a blocked punt set them up from our 40.  Offense and ST's miscues got the Saints back in the game - IMO.  

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@minny65 said:
The only stat that matters on defense is points given up the rest are a means to that end.  Like said above, our turnover stats were much better the year before but who cares we were the #1 defense in points given up and 13-3.  

The whole team collapsed vs the Eagles but the Defense was fine vs the Saints.  They shut Bree's down like no defense had done for all year for 3 Quarters until Keenum's Int set them up at our 30 and then a blocked punt set them up from our 40.  Offense and ST's miscues got the Saints back in the game - IMO.  

I disagree the defense was fine against the Saint's. Not in the 2nd half. Brees ended up with 294 yards and 3 td. Most in the 2nd half. We did come up with a huge sack that set up the long FG miss. There was also a illegal shift penalty that wiped out a long Saints TD. Then Griff deflected the pass with the back of his hand. Barr INT in the redzone it later resulted. So they ended up empty still. It wasn't all on us giving them short fields. Which as you pointed out we did. That bad Case INT did swing momentum giving the ball back right after they scored. If you only look at our miscues you won't see theirs. They had us dead to rights on a trick play Kamara missed a wide open receiver easy 6 there. Starting really just before the half Drew started finding holes everywhere. Just be it dumb luck or what they kept shooting their own foot. When they stopped that they nearly won. Should have maybe. If it wasn't for one more magical dumb luck play on our part. I guess I remember that game differently.