Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ TBro said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ TBro said:
I think there needs to be a better balance than what we saw last year. When we faced better teams and just sat back and stayed home, we were exposed big time, especially against the Saints and Eagles. Those are also tendencies that can be exploited by better coaching staffs and were in both of those games. Barr had 1 sack last year. Zimmer needs to put him in a position to be more disruptive. He was an amazing pass rusher in college so why not utilize those skills more. Just one example, but there was definitely something off with this team at the end of season where we seemed to sit back and the let the offense dictate want they wanted to do.
I would hardly call what they did to the saints for the first game and a half "sitting back", I think the offense setting the saints up in the 2nd half had as much to do with their come back. as far as the eagles, the D was physically and emotionally gassed and they really didnt have anything to prepare for. there needed to be more rotation early in the year to keep guys healthier/fresher down the stretch IMO. Has blitzing Brees ever been the answer to beating him?
Jimmy,
Nobody said anything about Blitzing Brees. There are several ways to generate pressure on the QB without bringing extra rushers. All I'm saying is that always playing the "stay in your lane" disciplined style that Zimmer preaches also creates tendencies that good Coaches will gameplan against and exploit. You have to change it up and totally agree that Zimmer failed big time on his DLine rotations which he admitted to in the offseason. I think having a coach like DeFillippo who was on the other sideline can certainly bring that outsider perspective to correct some of those issues this season. Time will tell if they learned from those mistakes.
I think you're incredibly off base with this line of thinking... You make it sound like he's a bland, stubborn defensive coach that runs the same formations time and time again.
The beauty of his defense is that it's multiple and exotic, meaning he can run a variety of coverages, blitzes, and pressure packages out of a number of different formations to keep the opposing offense guessing.
The guy is a defensive genius, quit making him sound like Leslie freaking Frazier...
I never compared him to Leslie Frazier so I'm not sure why you are getting so defensive and getting off topic. He is one of the best defensive minds in the NFL, but he also is not perfect and makes mistakes. All I said is that I hope he learns from those mistakes regarding the defensive line rotation, being too conservative at times, and utilizing his playmakers on defense to be more disruptive which is what this post was discussing. 22 teams had more takeaways than the Vikings did last season which supports MB's statement regarding the lack of big plays by this defense.
Pre Zimmer, getting off the field on third down WAS a big play...
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
Pre Zimmer, getting off the field on third down WAS a big play...
This is true. However my question is how many teams win championships playing safe? Seems more win by selling out and going all in. Maybe his way will work. Just seems to me the prize usually goes to the aggressive. He is 1-2 in the playoffs and was a miracle away from 0-2. I know Walsh should have...regardless. Maybe use your formula to get 13 regular season wins then open it up. Or maybe I'm way off base.
Quote: @suncoastvike said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
Pre Zimmer, getting off the field on third down WAS a big play...
This is true. However my question is how many teams win championships playing safe? Seems more win by selling out and going all in. Maybe his way will work. Just seems to me the prize usually goes to the aggressive. He is 1-2 in the playoffs and was a miracle away from 0-2. I know Walsh should have...regardless. Maybe use your formula to get 13 regular season wins then open it up. Or maybe I'm way off base.
I think with a less talented roster amd a weaker scheme, you are likely correct. I think with what we have assembled this year and without the chaos the team dealt with last year they should stay the course and save the "dialing it up" for situational use to get out of bad situations or when they need to flip the field or get t he ball back for the O.
Quote: @TBro said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ TBro said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ TBro said:
I think there needs to be a better balance than what we saw last year. When we faced better teams and just sat back and stayed home, we were exposed big time, especially against the Saints and Eagles. Those are also tendencies that can be exploited by better coaching staffs and were in both of those games. Barr had 1 sack last year. Zimmer needs to put him in a position to be more disruptive. He was an amazing pass rusher in college so why not utilize those skills more. Just one example, but there was definitely something off with this team at the end of season where we seemed to sit back and the let the offense dictate want they wanted to do.
I would hardly call what they did to the saints for the first game and a half "sitting back", I think the offense setting the saints up in the 2nd half had as much to do with their come back. as far as the eagles, the D was physically and emotionally gassed and they really didnt have anything to prepare for. there needed to be more rotation early in the year to keep guys healthier/fresher down the stretch IMO. Has blitzing Brees ever been the answer to beating him?
Jimmy,
Nobody said anything about Blitzing Brees. There are several ways to generate pressure on the QB without bringing extra rushers. All I'm saying is that always playing the "stay in your lane" disciplined style that Zimmer preaches also creates tendencies that good Coaches will gameplan against and exploit. You have to change it up and totally agree that Zimmer failed big time on his DLine rotations which he admitted to in the offseason. I think having a coach like DeFillippo who was on the other sideline can certainly bring that outsider perspective to correct some of those issues this season. Time will tell if they learned from those mistakes.
I think you're incredibly off base with this line of thinking... You make it sound like he's a bland, stubborn defensive coach that runs the same formations time and time again.
The beauty of his defense is that it's multiple and exotic, meaning he can run a variety of coverages, blitzes, and pressure packages out of a number of different formations to keep the opposing offense guessing.
The guy is a defensive genius, quit making him sound like Leslie freaking Frazier...
I never compared him to Leslie Frazier so I'm not sure why you are getting so defensive and getting off topic. He is one of the best defensive minds in the NFL, but he also is not perfect and makes mistakes. All I said is that I hope he learns from those mistakes regarding the defensive line rotation, being too conservative at times, and utilizing his playmakers on defense to be more disruptive which is what this post was discussing. 22 teams had more takeaways than the Vikings did last season which supports MB's statement regarding the lack of big plays by this defense.
I agree with this. I love Zimmer and I think he's the best coach we've had since Bud, but he's not perfect. I think if you look back at some of the breakdowns we've had in recent years--the last 6 quarters of '17, the post bye defensive performance of '16, opening day '15 in San Fran--those were games where we weren't out-manned as much as we were out-coached.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ TBro said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ TBro said:
I think there needs to be a better balance than what we saw last year. When we faced better teams and just sat back and stayed home, we were exposed big time, especially against the Saints and Eagles. Those are also tendencies that can be exploited by better coaching staffs and were in both of those games. Barr had 1 sack last year. Zimmer needs to put him in a position to be more disruptive. He was an amazing pass rusher in college so why not utilize those skills more. Just one example, but there was definitely something off with this team at the end of season where we seemed to sit back and the let the offense dictate want they wanted to do.
I would hardly call what they did to the saints for the first game and a half "sitting back", I think the offense setting the saints up in the 2nd half had as much to do with their come back. as far as the eagles, the D was physically and emotionally gassed and they really didnt have anything to prepare for. there needed to be more rotation early in the year to keep guys healthier/fresher down the stretch IMO. Has blitzing Brees ever been the answer to beating him?
Jimmy,
Nobody said anything about Blitzing Brees. There are several ways to generate pressure on the QB without bringing extra rushers. All I'm saying is that always playing the "stay in your lane" disciplined style that Zimmer preaches also creates tendencies that good Coaches will gameplan against and exploit. You have to change it up and totally agree that Zimmer failed big time on his DLine rotations which he admitted to in the offseason. I think having a coach like DeFillippo who was on the other sideline can certainly bring that outsider perspective to correct some of those issues this season. Time will tell if they learned from those mistakes.
I think you're incredibly off base with this line of thinking... You make it sound like he's a bland, stubborn defensive coach that runs the same formations time and time again.
The beauty of his defense is that it's multiple and exotic, meaning he can run a variety of coverages, blitzes, and pressure packages out of a number of different formations to keep the opposing offense guessing.
The guy is a defensive genius, quit making him sound like Leslie freaking Frazier...
For me, I think our 2017 defense was pretty bland. I don't think that makes him a bland coach because we've seen him have much more variety (2015). I might be wrong, but what my eyes see is a dramatic downturn in blitzing creativity or effectiveness and an increase in putting more guys into coverage and letting the front four provide all the pressure. A couple years ago, I think this defense was predicated on the pass rush. We had a strong front 4 + creative blitzing that would let us get pressure quickly and our DBs only had to cover for a brief period of time. QBs were confused by our defense and made errors. Now, we've lost Floyd, so we're missing that pass rushing presence inside. We've added Waynes and Alexander and Newmans gotten older and Sendejo has improved a lot. I think we've gotten really good at just covering people and letting Griffen and Hunter be our entire pass rush and it worked pretty well up until Griffen got hurt. I'm not entirely sure, but my got says that Waynes and Alexander are more scheme limited than Newman and Munnerlyn were. I know the numbers suggest differently, but I can't help but think that our scheme changes are due to some sort of limitation in our personnel rather than Zimmer being purely stubborn, and that's why we went out and got Hughes because it will allow us to get back to being more flexible on defense.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ suncoastvike said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
Pre Zimmer, getting off the field on third down WAS a big play...
This is true. However my question is how many teams win championships playing safe? Seems more win by selling out and going all in. Maybe his way will work. Just seems to me the prize usually goes to the aggressive. He is 1-2 in the playoffs and was a miracle away from 0-2. I know Walsh should have...regardless. Maybe use your formula to get 13 regular season wins then open it up. Or maybe I'm way off base.
I think with a less talented roster amd a weaker scheme, you are likely correct. I think with what we have assembled this year and without the chaos the team dealt with last year they should stay the course and save the "dialing it up" for situational use to get out of bad situations or when they need to flip the field or get t he ball back for the O.
I guess hopefully with the addition of Richardson we can be disruptive rushing 4. Then as you say in a pinch you mix it up. I just have a hard time getting over what Brees (2nd half) and Foles was doing to us in the playoffs. We were getting no pressure. What we were doing wasn't working. Against the Eagles nothing was. Couldn't pressure or cover deep. Ok ok... time to move on. That's over now. Letting go and moving on is one thing I personally need to work on
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ TBro said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ TBro said:
I think there needs to be a better balance than what we saw last year. When we faced better teams and just sat back and stayed home, we were exposed big time, especially against the Saints and Eagles. Those are also tendencies that can be exploited by better coaching staffs and were in both of those games. Barr had 1 sack last year. Zimmer needs to put him in a position to be more disruptive. He was an amazing pass rusher in college so why not utilize those skills more. Just one example, but there was definitely something off with this team at the end of season where we seemed to sit back and the let the offense dictate want they wanted to do.
I would hardly call what they did to the saints for the first game and a half "sitting back", I think the offense setting the saints up in the 2nd half had as much to do with their come back. as far as the eagles, the D was physically and emotionally gassed and they really didnt have anything to prepare for. there needed to be more rotation early in the year to keep guys healthier/fresher down the stretch IMO. Has blitzing Brees ever been the answer to beating him?
Jimmy,
Nobody said anything about Blitzing Brees. There are several ways to generate pressure on the QB without bringing extra rushers. All I'm saying is that always playing the "stay in your lane" disciplined style that Zimmer preaches also creates tendencies that good Coaches will gameplan against and exploit. You have to change it up and totally agree that Zimmer failed big time on his DLine rotations which he admitted to in the offseason. I think having a coach like DeFillippo who was on the other sideline can certainly bring that outsider perspective to correct some of those issues this season. Time will tell if they learned from those mistakes.
I think you're incredibly off base with this line of thinking... You make it sound like he's a bland, stubborn defensive coach that runs the same formations time and time again.
The beauty of his defense is that it's multiple and exotic, meaning he can run a variety of coverages, blitzes, and pressure packages out of a number of different formations to keep the opposing offense guessing.
The guy is a defensive genius, quit making him sound like Leslie freaking Frazier...
Yes. He did admit he went to a call one too many times that allowed the Saints to pick up that 4th down. But if I recall the preseason after the Seattle game, everyone was freaking out because we struggled in a preseason game as he was experimenting with coverages and pattern matching in the secondary. There is a reason top notch QBs struggle against our D. Like Brees did in the first half before they took out Sendejo with a cheap shot, Rhodes got a bit emotional and was limping and then our offense gave them a huge lift with the INT.
I would wager any reasonable saints fan was screaming at their TV wondering what the hell was wrong with Brees and Payton.
Quote: @suncoastvike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ suncoastvike said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
Pre Zimmer, getting off the field on third down WAS a big play...
This is true. However my question is how many teams win championships playing safe? Seems more win by selling out and going all in. Maybe his way will work. Just seems to me the prize usually goes to the aggressive. He is 1-2 in the playoffs and was a miracle away from 0-2. I know Walsh should have...regardless. Maybe use your formula to get 13 regular season wins then open it up. Or maybe I'm way off base.
I think with a less talented roster amd a weaker scheme, you are likely correct. I think with what we have assembled this year and without the chaos the team dealt with last year they should stay the course and save the "dialing it up" for situational use to get out of bad situations or when they need to flip the field or get t he ball back for the O.
I guess hopefully with the addition of Richardson we can be disruptive rushing 4. Then as you say in a pinch you mix it up. I just have a hard time getting over what Brees (2nd half) and Foles was doing to us in the playoffs. We were getting no pressure. What we were doing wasn't working. Against the Eagles nothing was. Couldn't pressure or cover deep. Ok ok... time to move on. That's over now. Letting go and moving on is one thing I personally need to work on
The eagles game was a different story. On the road, we shut them down for the first drive or 2 and were up 7-0. Then a horrible pick 6 got the crowd in it and gave them life. A fumble came next and pretty soon the Eagles were ahead and started opening up their offense. With the crowd in the game, our O was struggling mightily. Credit the Eagles staff, they had a great game plan (and did it again in the Superbowl) to take advantage of the unknowns of Foles. They changed their offense and did double moves. We had a defensive plan to stop their RPO short game and they used that against us. Yes we got outcoached, but so did Billicheck.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ suncoastvike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ suncoastvike said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
Pre Zimmer, getting off the field on third down WAS a big play...
This is true. However my question is how many teams win championships playing safe? Seems more win by selling out and going all in. Maybe his way will work. Just seems to me the prize usually goes to the aggressive. He is 1-2 in the playoffs and was a miracle away from 0-2. I know Walsh should have...regardless. Maybe use your formula to get 13 regular season wins then open it up. Or maybe I'm way off base.
I think with a less talented roster amd a weaker scheme, you are likely correct. I think with what we have assembled this year and without the chaos the team dealt with last year they should stay the course and save the "dialing it up" for situational use to get out of bad situations or when they need to flip the field or get t he ball back for the O.
I guess hopefully with the addition of Richardson we can be disruptive rushing 4. Then as you say in a pinch you mix it up. I just have a hard time getting over what Brees (2nd half) and Foles was doing to us in the playoffs. We were getting no pressure. What we were doing wasn't working. Against the Eagles nothing was. Couldn't pressure or cover deep. Ok ok... time to move on. That's over now. Letting go and moving on is one thing I personally need to work on
The eagles game was a different story. On the road, we shut them down for the first drive or 2 and were up 7-0. Then a horrible pick 6 got the crowd in it and gave them life. A fumble came next and pretty soon the Eagles were ahead and started opening up their offense. With the crowd in the game, our O was struggling mightily. Credit the Eagles staff, they had a great game plan (and did it again in the Superbowl) to take advantage of the unknowns of Foles. They changed their offense and did double moves. We had a defensive plan to stop their RPO short game and they used that against us. Yes we got outcoached, but so did Billicheck.
They (Eagles) did change in the playoffs. That's what I was getting at with the aggressive teams get the championship statement I made earlier. We had a defense planned and it got destroyed. The deep balls completions were most bothersome. Yes things broke down quickly after a promising start. We were out coached. Moving on...lol.
|
