Only in the same way Richard Nixon did...
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
Let's see if we can find some common ground at least on the premises. My premise are that:
(1) fining you to get you to do something (or to prevent you from doing it) is equivalent to forcing you to do it (or forcing you not to do it).
(2) kneeling during the anthem is a form of protest. It is speech and it is protected by the Constitution.
(3) the NFL and its member teams are not the government so they are not violating the players' 1st Amendment rights by fining them for kneeling during the anthem.
(4) as the employers of players, NFL owners have the power to suppress the players' speech without violating their Constitutional rights.
Given these points ....
IMO:
-that billionaire NFL owners have caved in to Trump or to the fans/mob is cowardly.
-an American forcing a fellow American to stand for the flag/anthem when they do not want to is un-American. It is a sad irony.
-I would be far less troubled if the NFL forced players to stand during the half-time show where the dog chases a Frisbee.
they are not forcing them to stand, they are not threatening to fine them if they dont stand. they are giving them an alternative to standing and will fine them if they dont choose one of their 2 options.
as far as the owners caving to Trump... no way, they are caving to the numbers. the majority of America is not supporting these players, and now some are no longer supporting the league. The longer the owners let the players make the game experience for the fan something other than what the average consumer wants the more likely that they will lose future revenue.
So we could not even get past the first premise?
My first premise was that fining you to get you to do something or to prevent you from doing something is the same as being forced to do it or being forced not to do it.
It is a fairly simple premise. Does not seem very controversial. But we can’t even agree on that?
You think the new policy is players can stand without punishment, or they can stay in the lockerroom with no punishment, or they can come out and kneel with no punishment? I doubt it. Do you really think nothing will happen to a player who kneels? You don’t think the threat is that there will be some punishment for him or his team?
I assume you are a reasonable person. I think I am one, too. I know we are a divided country, but it is concerning that we struggle even to begin a conversation.
Apes and cakes?? This is getting good. I likey :p
The Flame of Racism and Intolerance is fueled by constantly telling Groups they are Special Victims.
Without Synthetically-Generated Victimhood, nobody would seriously be attempting to undermine Our Bill Of Rights. These people are being used in a game they aren't even aware is going on.
Quote: @kahsmick said:
The Flame of Racism and Intolerance is fueled by constantly telling Groups they are Special Victims.
Without Synthetically-Generated Victimhood, nobody would seriously be attempting to undermine Our Bill Of Rights. These people are being used in a game they aren't even aware is going on.
i am thinking that everybody is a victim of something these days. i can see the undermining argument in a global foil hat wearing conspiracy sort of way.
using the term "these people" is imply that we arent all in the same boat... arent we all able to claim some sort of victim status?
I agree with Jimmy.
I just find it kinda funny that "those" people got some people all flustered because they're trying to force someone to bake them a cake. I'm pretty sure "those" people are really just trying to make a point. Doubt the "those" people are really concerned about finding someone to...bake a pretty cake, arrange some flowers, decorate a room. Isn't that the sort of thing "them" people are good at? "Those" people are just pushing the boundaries of "them" people to purposely force them to face an uncomfortable issue. In the end "them" people will have a lovely wedding. One that makes any bride jealous. Without "those" other peoples help.
Fearless Leader should activate the National Guard and make the players stand at gun point
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
OMG! You actually voted for the moron! LOL. Well, at least you're honest. I'll give you that.
Sorry you had to run a gauntlet of protesters to hear the idiot speak, but try to remember that those were the good guys. On one side we have a hater who retweets white nationalists, who called white supremacists "very fine people," and was heartily endorsed by the KKK. And on the other side you have people trying to stand up to that hate.
Maybe you should re-think which side you want to be on.
Just going to highlight that little bit o irony and leave it out there. Watching the behavior exhibited, you can't really believe that. Spitting on people, throwing liquids on people, punching them, assaulting them all reminds me of a previous era. But not in the same manner in which you allude. The white hoods have indeed been replaced, but not by red hats.
I don't condone violence. Violence only begets more violence. But I do think it's important to protest this man wherever he goes, if only to show the world that not all of us are so willing to let hate and white nationalism take root in America. Again.
But don't you see... that even describing the president (I'm assuming that that's who you're referring to) in that manner is increasing the hate/violence in our country? Just because the president does things you don't like, that doesn't mean he's "hate-filled" (or a white nationalist). I didn't vote for the guy... and I think he's an idiot. That being said, most of the accusations against him are COMPLETELY rooted in people's hatred for his policies, not for anything that actually is "racist" or "hateful". See, I felt about Obama the same way that alot of people feel about Trump. But you tell me: what's going to happen in our country if "we" continue to stir up hatred against people with whom we don't agree? Do you really think that "protesting" every conservative speaker (which is what many on the Left do, not necessarily you) is going to accomplish anything? Who are you trying to "impress" with your protests? You'll have everyone who agrees with you nodding their heads in agreement... and all the rest shaking their heads in disagreement. Nothing- other than greater divisions in our country- will be accomplished.
If you think it is important to protest against various conservatives, to show that you refuse to let their viewpoints take root... does that also apply to Pro-Life protestors who are lined up on sidewalks outside of Planned Parenthood, trying to prevent the deaths of other human beings?
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