Quote: @StickyBun said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
I think he's got a very high ceiling, and 3 years from now he'll probably be a starting caliber T, but damn...we're kind of in win now mode aren't we? This entire draft seemed to be executed with some premise other than we were a game away from a championship...this entire draft has me smh...
I hate this draft. Its nonsensical to me. So many disappointing picks. And trading up to take another 5th round kicker ala Blair Walsh? SMFH.
This team won 13 games last year, it was great. But they were one miracle play from being one and done at home in the playoffs and got ANNIHILATED in Philly. JMO, but every year there are playoffs teams that take a step back the next year: that might be the 2018 Vikings.
Now that the dust has settled, not just from the draft but from 2017 in general, I think we'll see a little bit of a fall off in 2018. I think 2017 was a team of overachievers.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if we reverted to the point of just barely making it into the playoffs.
Quote: @KingBash said:
@ StickyBun said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
I think he's got a very high ceiling, and 3 years from now he'll probably be a starting caliber T, but damn...we're kind of in win now mode aren't we? This entire draft seemed to be executed with some premise other than we were a game away from a championship...this entire draft has me smh...
I hate this draft. Its nonsensical to me. So many disappointing picks. And trading up to take another 5th round kicker ala Blair Walsh? SMFH.
This team won 13 games last year, it was great. But they were one miracle play from being one and done at home in the playoffs and got ANNIHILATED in Philly. JMO, but every year there are playoffs teams that take a step back the next year: that might be the 2018 Vikings.
Now that the dust has settled, not just from the draft but from 2017 in general, I think we'll see a little bit of a fall off in 2018. I think 2017 was a team of overachievers.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if we reverted to the point of just barely making it into the playoffs.
the increased difficulty in our schedule and the fact that we finished with only 3 losses suggests you are right... but what if... imagine the excitement.
Quote: @KingBash said:
@ StickyBun said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
I think he's got a very high ceiling, and 3 years from now he'll probably be a starting caliber T, but damn...we're kind of in win now mode aren't we? This entire draft seemed to be executed with some premise other than we were a game away from a championship...this entire draft has me smh...
I hate this draft. Its nonsensical to me. So many disappointing picks. And trading up to take another 5th round kicker ala Blair Walsh? SMFH.
This team won 13 games last year, it was great. But they were one miracle play from being one and done at home in the playoffs and got ANNIHILATED in Philly. JMO, but every year there are playoffs teams that take a step back the next year: that might be the 2018 Vikings.
Now that the dust has settled, not just from the draft but from 2017 in general, I think we'll see a little bit of a fall off in 2018. I think 2017 was a team of overachievers.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if we reverted to the point of just barely making it into the playoffs.
There is undoubtedly going to be regression regardless if the on-field team is better in 2018 than in 2017 or not. The NFL is set up to keep teams in-line with the pack which leads to regression on both the higher and lower standard deviations. The better teams get later draft picks and tougher schedules. The weaker teams from a season ago get higher draft picks and an easier schedule. So the chances the Vikings are going to win 13 games again are extremely low regardless if the media wants to grade them on win total or not.
The real story will be how quickly the offense can get up to speed with Kirk Cousins under center. Add in a new offensive coordinator and it could take the first 4 games of the season until they finally get into a rhythm. So the 2018 outlook is based on how well the defense plays in those first few games and if they can generate balance the rest of the season. If the offense is ready to go week 1 they could easily win 11-12 games. If it takes the first quarter of the season they are likely a 9-10 win team on the edge of a playoff berth. If they can't find balance they'll fall into the NFL's perpetual limbo of 7-8 win teams.
Quote: @KingBash said:
@ StickyBun said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
I think he's got a very high ceiling, and 3 years from now he'll probably be a starting caliber T, but damn...we're kind of in win now mode aren't we? This entire draft seemed to be executed with some premise other than we were a game away from a championship...this entire draft has me smh...
I hate this draft. Its nonsensical to me. So many disappointing picks. And trading up to take another 5th round kicker ala Blair Walsh? SMFH.
This team won 13 games last year, it was great. But they were one miracle play from being one and done at home in the playoffs and got ANNIHILATED in Philly. JMO, but every year there are playoffs teams that take a step back the next year: that might be the 2018 Vikings.
Now that the dust has settled, not just from the draft but from 2017 in general, I think we'll see a little bit of a fall off in 2018. I think 2017 was a team of overachievers.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if we reverted to the point of just barely making it into the playoffs.
Anything can happen when you consider injuries, schedule and just general bad luck. What's more, 13-3 and an NFCC appearance is a damn high bar to top.
That said, upgrading Case to Cousins, Johnson to Richardson and Murray to Cook should be seen as pretty significant improvements by anyone paying attention.
Barring injury, I would be shocked as hell if the '18 Vikings weren't better than the '17 Vikings. Does that mean we'll have a better record? Not necessarily, but this should be a better team.
The biggest question in my mind is how does Flip replace Shurmur. Shurmur was the best play-calling OC we've had in years. I'm fairly confident in Flip's ability to craft an offense that works well with our personnel. But does he have a feel for the rhythm of play calling? That remains to be seen.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ KingBash said:
@ StickyBun said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
I think he's got a very high ceiling, and 3 years from now he'll probably be a starting caliber T, but damn...we're kind of in win now mode aren't we? This entire draft seemed to be executed with some premise other than we were a game away from a championship...this entire draft has me smh...
I hate this draft. Its nonsensical to me. So many disappointing picks. And trading up to take another 5th round kicker ala Blair Walsh? SMFH.
This team won 13 games last year, it was great. But they were one miracle play from being one and done at home in the playoffs and got ANNIHILATED in Philly. JMO, but every year there are playoffs teams that take a step back the next year: that might be the 2018 Vikings.
Now that the dust has settled, not just from the draft but from 2017 in general, I think we'll see a little bit of a fall off in 2018. I think 2017 was a team of overachievers.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if we reverted to the point of just barely making it into the playoffs.
Anything can happen when you consider injuries, schedule and just general bad luck. What's more, 13-3 and an NFCC appearance is a damn high bar to top.
That said, upgrading Case to Cousins, Johnson to Richardson and Murray to Cook should be seen as pretty significant improvements by anyone paying attention.
Barring injury, I would be shocked as hell if the '18 Vikings weren't better than the '17 Vikings. Does that mean we'll have a better record? Not necessarily, but this should be a better team.
The biggest question in my mind is how does Flip replace Shurmur. Shurmur was the best play-calling OC we've had in years. I'm fairly confident in Flip's ability to craft an offense that works well with our personnel. But does he have a feel for the rhythm of play calling? That remains to be seen.
I overlooked the replacement of Shurmur with Flip. Shurmur did a great job calling plays last year. That will be hard to replicate. But Flip should be fine.
I would not give Cousins a pass re getting up to speed with a new offense and new receivers. Didn’t Case do precisely that last year? And he certainly did not get the starter’s reps like Cousins will.
We had some things go our way last year en route to 13-3. But we had our share of bad luck, too: losing Bradford after 1 great game and Cook in game 4; Griifen’s foot injury at the end of the Cleveland game; losing Easton late; ...
13-3 is tough to replicate, and we will likely face Rodgers twice next season, but I see no reason to think this won’t be one of the elite teams inthe NFC next year.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ KingBash said:
@ StickyBun said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
I think he's got a very high ceiling, and 3 years from now he'll probably be a starting caliber T, but damn...we're kind of in win now mode aren't we? This entire draft seemed to be executed with some premise other than we were a game away from a championship...this entire draft has me smh...
I hate this draft. Its nonsensical to me. So many disappointing picks. And trading up to take another 5th round kicker ala Blair Walsh? SMFH.
This team won 13 games last year, it was great. But they were one miracle play from being one and done at home in the playoffs and got ANNIHILATED in Philly. JMO, but every year there are playoffs teams that take a step back the next year: that might be the 2018 Vikings.
Now that the dust has settled, not just from the draft but from 2017 in general, I think we'll see a little bit of a fall off in 2018. I think 2017 was a team of overachievers.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if we reverted to the point of just barely making it into the playoffs.
Anything can happen when you consider injuries, schedule and just general bad luck. What's more, 13-3 and an NFCC appearance is a damn high bar to top.
That said, upgrading Case to Cousins, Johnson to Richardson and Murray to Cook should be seen as pretty significant improvements by anyone paying attention.
Barring injury, I would be shocked as hell if the '18 Vikings weren't better than the '17 Vikings. Does that mean we'll have a better record? Not necessarily, but this should be a better team.
The biggest question in my mind is how does Flip replace Shurmur. Shurmur was the best play-calling OC we've had in years. I'm fairly confident in Flip's ability to craft an offense that works well with our personnel. But does he have a feel for the rhythm of play calling? That remains to be seen.
I actually went back and watched the Browns offense when Flip was the OC to get a better feel for him as a play caller. When it comes to the technical aspects of the game I agree that he has a very good understanding of how to get the most out of his personnel and puts them in positions to take advantage of their strengths. But the play calling is still a concern for me. He didn't generate good rhythm and really seemed to struggle when the offense got in a rut.
He has had time to improve and look back at that experience without a doubt. But he still has to prove that in my opinion. Good point.
Quote: @dadevike said:
Realistically, there were/are not many open starting positions on this team. I thought all along the Vikings were going CB in the 1st. Now, after the fact, I think that if an athletic tackle (or very athletic guard) was available at 30, the Vikings may have gone in that direction. But no such player was available where we were drafting. And we were already without a 4th round pick so we were a bit hampered in trading up. It became clear during the draft that the Vikings want athletic OL and were not interested in Will Hernandez-type of OL. You can call that bad judgment if you like, but that's the vision they have for the OL. Given what they want, what was available, and the absence of a 4th round pick, Hughes was the right choice.
The big changes for this year are:
-Cousins instead of Case;
-Cook, assuming he is fully recovered, instead of McKinnon (we do need another RB to pick up part of McKinnon's role but that's not a huge issue);
-Richardson instead of Tom Johnson / Shamar Stephen;
-Hughes (potentially) instead Mac at nickel; and
-______________ for Berger. We do not know who our 5th OL will be, but there are lots of guys who will compete for 1 spot this spring and summer. Among the guards we have Isidora, Compton, Andrews, and Gossett. Or if a T steps up among Collins, O'Neill, Hill, or Joseph, then Remmers gets moved to G. I think we are OK here.
The question of whether the Vikings likely improved comes down to whether you think the changes from last year are net positive or net negative. It looks to me to be net positive. The biggest change may be going from Case to Cousins. Case had a tremendous year. Will Cousins be able to match it? Who knows?, but I am hopeful.
good list. I would add that the change at OC may be the biggest. But that for better or worse will likely be attributed to Cousins.
I think replacing TJ is going to show some amazing dividends.
Quote: @dadevike said:
13-3 is tough to replicate, and we will likely face Rodgers twice next season, but I see no reason to think this won’t be one of the elite teams inthe NFC next year.
And Rodgers will face us (Barr) twice. We are the defending NFCN champs, it is up to them to dethrone us.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ Wetlander said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I think that people are being overly critical of the draft class and roster as a whole. But what else is there to talk about when there is still about 2 months until camp opens.
The Hughes pick makes sense and I really do think he is going to get on the field sooner than a lot of people think. He is too much of a quick twitch athlete to keep off the field if he understands his role as slot CB in Zimmer's D. Its a tough job to learn but he was able to come into college and learn an entire defensive playbook in two weeks so there is some hope. That also opens up the ability for Mac to rotate outside where he's proven to be less of a reliability. Add in kick and punt return duties and he'll have some sort of an impact.
A lot of people are selling O'Neill short. He'll need to add weight but he is talented enough technically to play if needed. At the end of the day the Vikings lack one offensive line starter but have a tremendous amount of depth. At this point if they can't find a combination of five O-lineman that work well together its on Sparano and the coaching staff.
From the 3rd onward's Holmes should be a part of a rotation and Conklin has a chance. Carlson is almost a given producer since there really isn't going to be a competition with Kai. They want his leg for kickoff's and if he shows the same level of accuracy he did at Auburn the competition is over before it even started.
Oh, and they're getting Dalvin Cook back who gave D-coordinators absolute nightmares when he was healthy last year. Multiple NFL coaches firmly believe he would have been the ROY last season if he stayed healthy. Before his injury he was on pace for over 2,000 all-purpose yards. If you really kept him in-line with his pace he would have led the NFL in yards from scrimmage.
Great insights, Geoff. I think this draft class was going to get panned by most fans and media no matter what... the Vikings roster is loaded right now and there aren't many starting spots up for grabs. RG/RT will be one spot to watch this offseason, but if everyone looks objectively at our roster, it's loaded with talented guys at almost every position. And now the Vikings just added a bunch of guys with good upside as depth behind our starters... I'm having a hard time understanding how some see that as a bad thing?
BECAUSE WE SPENT $84M ON A QUARTERBACK AND HE IS GOING TO DIE WITHOUT A RIGHT GUARD. That is why Wet. :p
I still believe that Keenum's pocket presence, ability to feel pressure and escape, and scrambling masked many problems and inconsistencies with the OLine all season, especially when we had to reshuffle the line due to injuries at the end of the year.
Cousins does not appear to have the same escapability skills as Keenum, thus the frustration with not taking a plug and play RG/RT with the first round pick. I also hope that Hill does not end up as the starter at RT, he will get Cousins destroyed. I think he belongs as a backup swing tackle.
I am not totally comfortable that a 5th round pick (Isadora), someone signed off the Eagles practice squad (Andrews), or a low level FA (Compton) will be a solid starter at RG. And yes we should be focused on protecting and maximizing the 84M GUARANTEED investment in Cousins.
What I find somewhat confusing is, many say the offensive line was improved and good last year.
But a lot of our linemen had some of their worse ratings in their careers.
How does that work =)
Disappointed in our first round pick this year. The person we picked was ok...just no in the first round.
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