Quote: @Poiple said:
@ Maple Surple said:
On a cross thread note...
PFF re graded the 2015 #1 draft picks
a year later...
& still thought it sucked
Not sure if they have re re graded since 
11. Trae Waynes, CB, Minnesota Vikings
Draft Grade: C
We were not high on the Waynes pick at the time, as he’s more of a straight-line speed prospect that we saw as second-round value. He wasn’t ready to play as a rookie, but he went to a good situation in Minnesota and held his own on 196 snaps (+0.1). Still, we have our concerns that he can live up to the hype of a full-time role in the future.
- Just shows they don’t have any more clues or insights than anyone else, all along with the added luxury of...
Zero accountability !
Wasnt Waynes a little slow coming on? I mean its great that he developed into a starter but it seemed there was some question if the light bulb was going to come on. My memory sucks so dont feel bad about correcting my perception.
PFF grades him as "Average". I think he's "Above Average" and uses his speed to make up for his deficiencies in coverage. Hopefully he will continue to improve this year. Improving our pass rush will definitely make all of our secondary look better.
Quote: @Wetlander said:
@ FSUVike said:
TBro, Daniels went 9 picks later and has many of the functional strength questions that O'Neill has.
Something nobody is taking about so far: this was a real learning experience for Rick and Mike. They aren't used to picking this deep in the Draft. And it showed.
Lesson learned for future years as I'm sure they will be in this spot again for the next 2-3 years and hopefully longer.
I don't think this was inexperience in picking this late... it was just a really weird draft with how some of these players came off the board. First time in how long that 5 QBs were drafted in the first round... then tell me the last draft where there were 4 OGs picked in the first round...
Most drafts will have a couple OTs go in the first and maybe 1-2 C/OGs in any given year, but to have four selected in the first round??? And then have 3 more C/OGs go in the first five picks of the 2nd round??? That's INSANE.
I really think that the Vikings were expecting at least one of Price, Ragnow, or Corbett to be there at 62. I also think they expected Wynn to be available at #30 and I have a feeling they would considered taking him there. When Wynn, Price, and Ragnow came off the board before their first round pick, I don't doubt for a second that the Vikings figured the next best OGs would drop into the latter half of the 2nd round.
They didn't... but I would say it was more of a strange draft than anything the Vikings did wrong.
Agreed. Considering Elf was a 3rd round pick and his equal went in the low 20s of round 1 this year. They may have gambled and left to reach in round 2, but I like the Hughes pick. I think he contributes right away at PR and gets some snaps at the nickel. Newman coming back is probably more as a mentor IMO. Consider Hughes will likely contribute more than Waynes did year one.
I have no issue with special teams contributions and some limited snaps on D if he turns out like Rhodes and Waynes.
Quote: @TBro said:
This is exactly how I feel. It was a below average draft strategy and a below average draft.
Time will tell or course, but can we afford to wait 2-3 years for this draft class to develop and contribute?
http://www.startribune.com/vikings-better-hope-theyre-right-about-draft-and-pro-football-focus-is-wrong/481256141/
Yes, I believe that we can. We were one lousy game away from getting to the Super Bowl. In the meantime, we upgraded at QB, RB (Cook was out most of the year), DT and DB. I don't think we got worse anywhere. And, yes, our OL is still a question mark. But we are already a REALLY good team. I think we CAN afford to draft talented players for depth... and then coach them up.
some good points greed... no doubt. Especially about CBs being higher valued than OGs. That wasnt forefront in my thinking.
They (Our O line) were looking pretty good but maybe for us Vike fans that means average lol. And part of them looking good was Keenum scrambling.
Then an entire season with little rotation and one injury and it all fell apart a bit didnt it? It seemed to me that it did. I believe there was some commentary along the same lines. At least in pass protection they suffered a big setback.
I wont even begin to tackle how good these lineman grade out especially coming in from college. Instead i have to rely on you guys who follow it and of course the talking heads.
I mentioned this a while ago... remember the Packers draft immediatly after Moss’s first year? They drafted 4 CBs because they had been shredded and knew they were going ti be shredded for years. Those guys went on to be a pain for us for years to come. We hated those guys. Their secondary became a strength. Thats how you fix a problem, how you turn it into a strength.
I really think if the Vikes want to be a long term contender they need to turn this weakness into a strength. Drafting a #3-4 CB in the first round and a project tweener OT in the second, isnt sending the message that they are serious about it.
I think Rick blew it. He knew the need. He guessed wrong. He didnt anticipate correctly. He didnt trade up to fill the hole. He stood pat and guessed wrong. I still like Rick. Im not calling for his head. But I am disappointed that a well known weakness wasnt corrected and it will limit their success. I fully expect it to reduce their ability in securing a first round bye and home field advantage in the playoffs.
I do not expect a Superbowl appearance with this line.
I would be very, very happy to be wrong.
with all these interior guys drafted there will be some older vets getting cut. if we dont already have “it” on the OL there will be more FAs to be had.
id rather get someone who can be great in the first then a marginal guy just because we need that position. as for the oneil pick. whos to say he wasnt the bpa?? hes also one hell of an athlete. i like the chances of turning him into a dang good tackle.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
TBro, Daniels went 9 picks later and has many of the functional strength questions that O'Neill has.
Something nobody is taking about so far: this was a real learning experience for Rick and Mike. They aren't used to picking this deep in the Draft. And it showed.
Lesson learned for future years as I'm sure they will be in this spot again for the next 2-3 years and hopefully longer.
I don't understand why picking at #30 in round 1 is much different from starting in round 2, as they did in 2017 (starting at pick #41). They started at #23 in 2016, and also in 2013. Vikings' first pick in 2010 was #34. In 2014 they had the #9 pick but after using it, worked into the end of round 1 (#32) to draft Bridgewater. Did it matter from that point that he had already picked Barr, or was the rest of the draft - from #32 onward - so different than this year starting at #30?
I know the team has more opportunities to trade DOWN if they start very high, but other than that, don't they treat each pick as, "I have the first pick in the draft of all the REMAINING PLAYERS"? It actually seems like drafting relatively late, #30, they would have watched 29 other teams pick and seen the trends of which positions were in high demand that year, and possibly understand the nature of this year's draft.
The best defense for this draft - or any - is to say the Vikings feel they know who they wanted better than amateurs or sportswriters and are thrilled with who they added. The team's GM and HC should be saying that, and expressing anything else is a disservice to all the players drafted, isn't it? "Well, we were hoping for someone other than O'Neill but I guess we have to settle for him", is hardly a vote of confidence.
Biggest surprise to me was Spielman and Zimmer openly admitting they were taken by surprise and missed some players they wanted. Yes, I do call them out when they are feeding positive spin / PR fluff to the media and fans - but the positive spin is really the correct thing to say.
I agree with Jor-El, i dont buy the excuse that they were some how confused by drafting 30th. although I am not looking for excuses as I really dont have an issue with the draft, but for those that think they pooched it and are making that excuse... thats horse shit, they are professionals, they should be able to extrapolate their experience in the mid 20s and have the resources to calculate how the draft would fall for them at 30, 60, etc.... with that said, if anybody says they saw that run of Guards happening this year... I call bull shit.
Quote: @Poiple said:
@ Wetlander said:
@ FSUVike said:
TBro, Daniels went 9 picks later and has many of the functional strength questions that O'Neill has.
Something nobody is taking about so far: this was a real learning experience for Rick and Mike. They aren't used to picking this deep in the Draft. And it showed.
Lesson learned for future years as I'm sure they will be in this spot again for the next 2-3 years and hopefully longer.
I don't think this was inexperience in picking this late... it was just a really weird draft with how some of these players came off the board. First time in how long that 5 QBs were drafted in the first round... then tell me the last draft where there were 4 OGs picked in the first round...
Most drafts will have a couple OTs go in the first and maybe 1-2 C/OGs in any given year, but to have four selected in the first round??? And then have 3 more C/OGs go in the first five picks of the 2nd round??? That's INSANE.
I really think that the Vikings were expecting at least one of Price, Ragnow, or Corbett to be there at 62. I also think they expected Wynn to be available at #30 and I have a feeling they would considered taking him there. When Wynn, Price, and Ragnow came off the board before their first round pick, I don't doubt for a second that the Vikings figured the next best OGs would drop into the latter half of the 2nd round.
They didn't... but I would say it was more of a strange draft than anything the Vikings did wrong.
I have usually liked Rick’s performance. With exception of lineman i think he has done a very good job. But the draft is a GMs Superbowl and Rick didnt do well. Setting the team’s goals and accomplishing them is his job. Knowing the draft picks and what the team’s needs who pick before are is his job.
He pretty much put himself on report.
I'm not an overzealous Spielman defender, but I have to disagree on at least a couple counts. - The draft is not the GM's Super Bowl. The SUPER BOWL is the GM's Super Bowl, or maybe, "Getting to the Super Bowl" is. The draft is important and it's fun for fans. But IMO its importance is not as great as the attention we fans (me included!) place on it. Free agency, negotiating contracts, hiring coaches - those and other things I haven't even mentioned are just as important.
- We actually don't know if Spielman did well. I'm leery, but time is the only test. As I said above, my biggest surprise is that he made press statements that suggest he isn't sure he did well.
If it's accurate that the team has all but settled on moving Remmers to OG (RG or LG?) they must like what Hill has done so far. If they think he is equal or better than Remmers at RT then the OG NEED was less than we perceived.
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