Quote: @Poiple said:
Sure, why not take a few more CBs first and maybe a safety. Plenty of O lineman in the 6th and 7th right? :p
I wouldn't advise that... If we don't take an offensive lineman in the 2nd or 3rd round, I'll be right there with you holding a pitch fork. ;-)
Quote: @Poiple said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ Poiple said:
It isnt the number of O lineman. It is the quality of them. They are a below average group. If the Vikings want to reliably compete they need an above average group.
There is no ignoring or rationalizing that will explain away the fact that Rick and Zimmer neglect the offense for the sake of the defense. If you cant see it, no problem. If your season is made happy by having a number one D and going home empty handed in the playoffs, then good for you. But there is no way you can convince me that a Nickle or Dime CB is needed as much as an offensive lineman on this sub par O line.
The fact that you guys count the number of lineman and say “problem solved” or that you believe a late round pick is the same as a first round pick already rules you out of intelligent discussions.
So you already think Flipper is a bust? Cuz he's doubtlessly the one who pushed Rick to sign the kid from the Eagles but what does he know.
And you already think Isidora can't play?
And you already think Minnesota can't add a good player to the Line in the next two rounds of what is inarguably a deeper interior O-Line class than the one that produced Elf in the 3rd last year?
Sounds to me like someone has their mind made up for sure. Intelligent discussion indeed.
I do have my mind made up. A lot of us do. The fact that you cant see the problem is your problem.
The problem is you have elevated your opinion to the level of fact. You can yell it and repeat it all you want and be rude and condescending, but your opinion is just an opinion. The only fact is that you do, in fact, hold an opinion. My opinion is equally valid -- of course I think mine is better, but I do not know that for a fact.
I am open to a reasoned argument about why I am wrong. And if it is sufficiently persuasive I have no problem changing my mind -- it won't have any impact on what the Vikings do, but I'm OK with that. But simply repeating yourself, casting your opinion as fact, belittling others, and ignoring or misrepresenting other arguments is not what I would call a reasoned argument. If that is all you have to argue with, that's fine, but it is not persuasive. I still think I am right.
Like I said, we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
Go back a couple years + and our oline was a crapfest(29th or so), Last year much better(great no, but improving) and they say it takes several seasons to gel as a unit. Try a little faith that they want their new shiny toy(Cousins) upright and have a plan to achieve it.
I listened to Geoff.s pre draft analysis and commented about depth issues on the Db front and it seems the front office also questions what good signing a 3T to go next to Linval if we are gonna just let the Qb have outlets.
Quote: @ATXVIKE said:
Come on we've drafted 5 dbs in the 1st or 2nd rd since 2011...when is this group done being built....otoh just 2 Ol since then in 1st and 3rd rds. FUCK this reasoning...start building a decent OL!!!!!! 3 yrs in a row it's been a shit show on the OL. even last yr had dismal display. I rarely get upset about the draft. But we need OL help like 4 yrs ago. We had calls to trade back and geez we got a day 1 starting K returner....remember Cordarrel he could actually play a starting role day 1 beside K returner! Oh BTW the kid has issues and is short and slow! Great!
This is disingenuous. While the Vikings only added a 1st and 3rd high draft pick lineman they also added 3 high priced free agents in Boone, Remmers, and Reiff.
You cannot say they have not tried to upgrade the line since 2011 without mentioning free agents.
It is unfortunate that they missed out on Beavers and Clemmings both of whom were 4th round picks.
The Packers selected Sitton and Lang in the 4th round. The Panthers got Trai Turner after the Vikings took Clemmings. The Patriots got Shaw Mason in the 4th round.
If the Vikings would have done better with those 4th round picks then maybe things would be different now.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ Poiple said:
It isnt the number of O lineman. It is the quality of them. They are a below average group. If the Vikings want to reliably compete they need an above average group.
There is no ignoring or rationalizing that will explain away the fact that Rick and Zimmer neglect the offense for the sake of the defense. If you cant see it, no problem. If your season is made happy by having a number one D and going home empty handed in the playoffs, then good for you. But there is no way you can convince me that a Nickle or Dime CB is needed as much as an offensive lineman on this sub par O line.
The fact that you guys count the number of lineman and say “problem solved” or that you believe a late round pick is the same as a first round pick already rules you out of intelligent discussions.
So you already think Flipper is a bust? Cuz he's doubtlessly the one who pushed Rick to sign the kid from the Eagles but what does he know.
And you already think Isidora can't play?
And you already think Minnesota can't add a good player to the Line in the next two rounds of what is inarguably a deeper interior O-Line class than the one that produced Elf in the 3rd last year?
Sounds to me like someone has their mind made up for sure. Intelligent discussion indeed.
I have yet to see much from Isidora to show he is the answer. Last season with all the injuries was his chance. And he had hardly any playing time. Bottom line is, the offense line is not going to improve signing tier 4 players. How many tier 4 players has Rick signed to the team in the last 3 years? "a lot"
Quote: @Norse said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ Poiple said:
It isnt the number of O lineman. It is the quality of them. They are a below average group. If the Vikings want to reliably compete they need an above average group.
There is no ignoring or rationalizing that will explain away the fact that Rick and Zimmer neglect the offense for the sake of the defense. If you cant see it, no problem. If your season is made happy by having a number one D and going home empty handed in the playoffs, then good for you. But there is no way you can convince me that a Nickle or Dime CB is needed as much as an offensive lineman on this sub par O line.
The fact that you guys count the number of lineman and say “problem solved” or that you believe a late round pick is the same as a first round pick already rules you out of intelligent discussions.
So you already think Flipper is a bust? Cuz he's doubtlessly the one who pushed Rick to sign the kid from the Eagles but what does he know.
And you already think Isidora can't play?
And you already think Minnesota can't add a good player to the Line in the next two rounds of what is inarguably a deeper interior O-Line class than the one that produced Elf in the 3rd last year?
Sounds to me like someone has their mind made up for sure. Intelligent discussion indeed.
I have yet to see much from Isidora to show he is the answer. Last season with all the injuries was his chance. And he had hardly any playing time. Bottom line is, the offense line is not going to improve signing tier 4 players. How many tier 4 players has Rick signed to the team in the last 3 years? "a lot"
Are there only tier 4 players left in this draft? Cuz it keeps getting described over and over again as very deep. By like everyone.
So if this is a deeper interior lineman draft than last year when they snagged Elf in the 3rd why should they reach in the first?
Seriously. Answer that question instead of responding with generalizations.
And this question is for everyone. Why should they reach in the first when the consensus is that there's serious value in the 2nd and 3rd and the guys they really liked in round one were already gone?
Quote: @FSUVike said:
Are there only tier 4 players left in this draft? Cuz it keeps getting described over and over again as very deep. By like everyone.
So if this is a deeper interior lineman draft than last year when they snagged Elf in the 3rd why should they reach in the first?
Seriously. Answer that question instead of responding with generalizations.
And this question is for everyone. Why should they reach in the first when the consensus is that there's serious value in the 2nd and 3rd and the guys they really liked in round one were already gone?
Good luck getting them to give you a well-reasoned response. They are worked up into a lather that we didn't reach for an offensive lineman at #30. I don't get it...
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
@ ATXVIKE said:
Come on we've drafted 5 dbs in the 1st or 2nd rd since 2011...when is this group done being built....otoh just 2 Ol since then in 1st and 3rd rds. FUCK this reasoning...start building a decent OL!!!!!! 3 yrs in a row it's been a shit show on the OL. even last yr had dismal display. I rarely get upset about the draft. But we need OL help like 4 yrs ago. We had calls to trade back and geez we got a day 1 starting K returner....remember Cordarrel he could actually play a starting role day 1 beside K returner! Oh BTW the kid has issues and is short and slow! Great!
This is disingenuous. While the Vikings only added a 1st and 3rd high draft pick lineman they also added 3 high priced free agents in Boone, Remmers, and Reiff.
You cannot say they have not tried to upgrade the line since 2011 without mentioning free agents.
It is unfortunate that they missed out on Beavers and Clemmings both of whom were 4th round picks.
The Packers selected Sitton and Lang in the 4th round. The Panthers got Trai Turner after the Vikings took Clemmings. The Patriots got Shaw Mason in the 4th round.
If the Vikings would have done better with those 4th round picks then maybe things would be different now.
all very good points. Yet here we are... a stronger D, a weaker O and a team that struggles to put points on the board and a front office that doesnt seem to see a problem.
It is telling to hear Rick and Zimmer talk about how it all unfolded so perfectly that they got their guy. The fact that he is their guy (when he wasnt anyone elses) says pretty much all that needs to be said. They didnt say they had their eyes on on some of the O lineman but there just werent any. No, it unfolded the way that they wanted and its disappointing to see that they dont have the O line as a priority as they do a nickle or dime back.
Sure there is plenty of draft left. Maybe they get lucky and find a later round guy. They have missed often enough with first and second round guys.
Why are you here, Poiple? You don't like the FO, HC or QB. And no matter how anyone presents a counterpoint you just shoot it down instead of debating the points.
Why are you here?
Quote: @FSUVike said:
And this question is for everyone. Why should they reach in the first when the consensus is that there's serious value in the 2nd and 3rd and the guys they really liked in round one were already gone?
My answer is that I think Hughes himself was a reach. - He is likely to play a part-time role or provide depth. Is depth and #3 CB important? Sure - but I think you can find nickelback/returners in later rounds. In round 1, I want someone with a shot to be a full-time starter. There were players like that still available.
- He has physical limitations: average size, average speed. Could he still be an NFL player? Yes, but those are reasons players go in later rounds. Round 1 is where you get players with something that's eye-popping, like, "Wow, he give us deep speed that might change an opponents' plans". There were players with impressive size and/or speed still available.
- His background isn't impressive. Legal problems, kicked out of UNC, junior college, one year at UCF. Again, there are NFL players with worse bios - but there were prospects with far better still available.
Speaking for myself, I didn't have my heart set on OL, but I wanted someone who might excite hope for the future: Maurice Hurst, Justin Reid, Dallas Goedert, DJ Chark, or an OL like James Daniels. Every draft pick is a crapshoot, I know - but I want someone at the top who has a shot at being an every-down star if it all works out. But they picked someone whose ceiling is a combo of Captain Munnerlyn and Marcus Sherels. Whoop-de-do...
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