Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ Jor-El said:
Sam Hubbard, a DE? Hmmm, but if the Vikings can sign Hunter to a 4 year extension, we have our starting DEs under contract through 2021.
Most of the mocks I'm seeing include either a DE to replace Hunter, CB to replace Waynes, or LB to replace Barr. Has it become a widespread assumption the Vikings have totally mismanaged their salary cap plan and have to spend draft capital to plan for a mass exodus of talent after the 2018 season?
Do I think Hubbard is the type of DE they're looking for? Probably not. But you really need to be 3-4 deep at DE to have a solid rotation. You also want to have a good mix of speed/power. It's almost like having a change of pace back but on the defensive line instead. As the league has become more pass driven teams have figured this out.
Its not that you need a DE to replace Hunter or a CB to replace Waynes. You need a DE since Robison is a year from retirement and you need a year to develop a DE to make a real impact. Waynes is a whole different story since his 5th year option at $10M isn't a given. Corners need a year to develop and they honestly need the depth. Currently if any of Rhodes, Waynes, or Alexander went down they'd be completely screwed.
Geoff, Are you hearing any rumbling from the team on BRob? We heard a rumor that he was approached to take a pay cut at the same time as Murry was approached but we havent heard that the team either recinded that request or that BRob has accepted any restructured contract. What is happening with our longest tenured Viking?
I haven't heard anything lately. The team isn't in a hurry to clear cap space so I'd imagine the decision is more in Brian's court if he wants to return for another season or not.
why if the team isnt needing the cap space are they beating up a seasoned vet in what hes called his last year? how much are they hoping to save? I think (if they honestly went to BRob) that this is pure shit and fails to show any class from the organization. IIRC Brian took a pay cut last year didnt he to reflect his reduced role however he still ended up playing a shit ton of snaps for a veteran reserve player and filled a very important role when he was on the field. I wish the team wouldnt do its loyal players like this. Its not like he is on a monster contract to begin with.
personally if I was BRob I would have my agent looking into other options, sure the Vikes are a team on the verge, but theyve been there so many times in the past. tell Rick to shove it up his ass and play out my last year in another teams colors. preferably one that is in contention and has the Vikings on the schedule.
I cannot find any articles (that are legitimate) that speculate about the Vikings considering asking BRob to take another cut this year. I do not see how they are doing him wrong. I expect that they think he is returning since he is under contract.
If he changes his mind, so be it. Hopefully it would be before the draft so that they can plan accordingly.
I always believed they should have trade Edwards instead of keeping him another year because they probably would have done better than a 4th round comp pick based on the contract Edwards signed and Robison was ready to play.
I think that people forget about how the Vikings did Winfield and then did not let Hutchinson get his last year either.
Sometimes it is just business but I expect Robison will play under his current deal next year.
it was put out at the same time that Murray was asked to restructure or be released. I dont think much is put into "articles" anymore, most the minor news like this is twitter fodder until something solid is out there like the team cutting him or the contract getting redone so they can spin it positively. I hate the fully guranteed contracts of baseball, but I am starting to think that pro sports would be much better if teams and players were locked into their commitments. No more pulling the rug out from under vets and no more bull shit about holding out for more, once a deal is reached its a done deal until it expires.
But the NFL does have guaranteed contracts - a guaranteed portion, at least. The Vikings signed Robison to a contract that guarantees him $1.25M this year, even if they waive him. That's their commitment and have they threatened that they won't honor it? No.
His contract also includes a team option to keep him on the roster in 2018 for a couple million more. They aren't committed to that part of the deal, as every player knows when they sign. They can ask him if he would stay for less rather than be waived, but he's going to get the guaranteed part of his deal.
If the Vikings tried to renege on guaranteed portions of their player contracts, they would deserve all the venom you direct at them.
Quote: @dadevike said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
@ dadevike said:
Replace the Hubbard pick with a CB and that would be a really good draft.
Why? A CB in the first wouldn't play meaningful snaps until 2019, probably more like 2020. While a DL could work his way into a rotation that just lost a couple rotational players.
To me, this pick should go to the OL that just lost one starter, and has two other starters returning from injury.
I'm not convinced a first round CB will not contribute this season. Waynes was not a sound CB coming out of college. He relied on his speed and the fact that CBs can get away with a lot more contact in college - plus a PI penalty in college is limited to 15 yards. He has become a good CB. Mac has had to learn a new position. He was not a slot CB at Clemson. (He also was not taken in the first.)
We at least have a backup or two on the roster that we like at DE. We have nothing behind Rhodes, Waynes, and Mac. I shudder every time Sherels comes in to play CB.
As for the OL, I have not heard any concerns about Easton's or Elf's return from injury. If they cannot go, then that could certainly affect how we draft. But I am assuming they come back at full strength. So we lost Berger to retirement and a backup in Sirles. But we signed Evans and Compton. And is it reasonable to assume that Isidora and Hill will continue to develop?
OL would be an OK pick. But there are more good OL in this draft than good CBs. My preference, all else equal, is CB in the first, OL in the second.
Every single CB we have gets rebuilt in Zim's image...it's a process we've seen with Rhodes, Wayne's, and Alexander...assuming Newman returns a first round CB is going to basically red shirt...
In addition, I'm not seeing any proven DEs behind the starters if Robison leaves...after that we've got a couple PS guys and Weatherly...considering how far south our rush went when Griffen got dinged, if we go D, hopefully it's an end that slid...
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ Jor-El said:
Sam Hubbard, a DE? Hmmm, but if the Vikings can sign Hunter to a 4 year extension, we have our starting DEs under contract through 2021.
Most of the mocks I'm seeing include either a DE to replace Hunter, CB to replace Waynes, or LB to replace Barr. Has it become a widespread assumption the Vikings have totally mismanaged their salary cap plan and have to spend draft capital to plan for a mass exodus of talent after the 2018 season?
Do I think Hubbard is the type of DE they're looking for? Probably not. But you really need to be 3-4 deep at DE to have a solid rotation. You also want to have a good mix of speed/power. It's almost like having a change of pace back but on the defensive line instead. As the league has become more pass driven teams have figured this out.
Its not that you need a DE to replace Hunter or a CB to replace Waynes. You need a DE since Robison is a year from retirement and you need a year to develop a DE to make a real impact. Waynes is a whole different story since his 5th year option at $10M isn't a given. Corners need a year to develop and they honestly need the depth. Currently if any of Rhodes, Waynes, or Alexander went down they'd be completely screwed.
Geoff, Are you hearing any rumbling from the team on BRob? We heard a rumor that he was approached to take a pay cut at the same time as Murry was approached but we havent heard that the team either recinded that request or that BRob has accepted any restructured contract. What is happening with our longest tenured Viking?
I haven't heard anything lately. The team isn't in a hurry to clear cap space so I'd imagine the decision is more in Brian's court if he wants to return for another season or not.
why if the team isnt needing the cap space are they beating up a seasoned vet in what hes called his last year? how much are they hoping to save? I think (if they honestly went to BRob) that this is pure shit and fails to show any class from the organization. IIRC Brian took a pay cut last year didnt he to reflect his reduced role however he still ended up playing a shit ton of snaps for a veteran reserve player and filled a very important role when he was on the field. I wish the team wouldnt do its loyal players like this. Its not like he is on a monster contract to begin with.
personally if I was BRob I would have my agent looking into other options, sure the Vikes are a team on the verge, but theyve been there so many times in the past. tell Rick to shove it up his ass and play out my last year in another teams colors. preferably one that is in contention and has the Vikings on the schedule.
I cannot find any articles (that are legitimate) that speculate about the Vikings considering asking BRob to take another cut this year. I do not see how they are doing him wrong. I expect that they think he is returning since he is under contract.
If he changes his mind, so be it. Hopefully it would be before the draft so that they can plan accordingly.
I always believed they should have trade Edwards instead of keeping him another year because they probably would have done better than a 4th round comp pick based on the contract Edwards signed and Robison was ready to play.
I think that people forget about how the Vikings did Winfield and then did not let Hutchinson get his last year either.
Sometimes it is just business but I expect Robison will play under his current deal next year.
it was put out at the same time that Murray was asked to restructure or be released. I dont think much is put into "articles" anymore, most the minor news like this is twitter fodder until something solid is out there like the team cutting him or the contract getting redone so they can spin it positively. I hate the fully guranteed contracts of baseball, but I am starting to think that pro sports would be much better if teams and players were locked into their commitments. No more pulling the rug out from under vets and no more bull shit about holding out for more, once a deal is reached its a done deal until it expires.
But the NFL does have guaranteed contracts - a guaranteed portion, at least. The Vikings signed Robison to a contract that guarantees him $1.25M this year, even if they waive him. That's their commitment and have they threatened that they won't honor it? No.
His contract also includes a team option to keep him on the roster in 2018 for a couple million more. They aren't committed to that part of the deal, as every player knows when they sign. They can ask him if he would stay for less rather than be waived, but he's going to get the guaranteed part of his deal.
If the Vikings tried to renege on guaranteed portions of their player contracts, they would deserve all the venom you direct at them.
bull shit, Pops told me 3 years ago that Brian wanted to make it through this year with the Vikings and then retire, Brian, I am sure voiced that to the team at the time and even last year when he agreed to the pay cut. IF, ( I havent heard it from any public source) but if they are once again waving an ax over Brians neck and saying restructure or else... that is bull shit. BRob has been a great player for us and continues to perform at a high level when given the opportunity. They are using his desire to finish his career as a Viking as leverage to try and force a veteran player to play for much less than what he deserves. They made their deal with Brian last year, they need to stick to it now. ( I am fairly certain from Pops previous statements on the board that the team or at least spielman has been less than honest with the players in the past and likely continues to do so.)
as far as guaranteed contracts... spell it all out in the contract up front and make every dime of the deal guaranteed. no more bull shit deals that either side can dick around with. take the "gentleman" out of the equation since there seems to be so few left in these deals anyway.
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