Quote: @Poiple said:
What does shoe leather will slap oak mean??
I'll be banging my shoe on the table...a la Nikita Khrushchev...
Quote: @medaille said:
I think it goes without saying that the higher a draft pick the more expectations a team has for them, but it doesn't really explain the strategy of why Spielman brings in 4-5x 6th-7th rounders while the Packers draft strategy leads them to bring in 3x 6th-7th rounders. Why does Spielman target 10 draft picks when the average team drafts less than 8? Why does Spielman choose quantity over quality in the draft?
That strategy might make sense when you have lots of holes on your roster. We did not too long ago. But we don’t now. We need quality more than quantity. I hope RS sees that.
Quote: @dadevike said:
@ medaille said:
I think it goes without saying that the higher a draft pick the more expectations a team has for them, but it doesn't really explain the strategy of why Spielman brings in 4-5x 6th-7th rounders while the Packers draft strategy leads them to bring in 3x 6th-7th rounders. Why does Spielman target 10 draft picks when the average team drafts less than 8? Why does Spielman choose quantity over quality in the draft?
That strategy might make sense when you have lots of holes on your roster. We did not too long ago. But we don’t now. We need quality more than quantity. I hope RS sees that.
I'm not sure the load-up-on-late-picks "strategy" has EVER made much sense for the Vikings, regardless of how deep the roster was at a given time. Do you remember any year when we were coming off a depleted team and several 5th-7th round picks were able to step in, even as key backups?
Not after the departures of either Childress or Frazier: - Draft after Childress (2011), we had 7 late picks: Brandon Burton, DeMarcus Love, Mistral Raymond, Brandon Fusco, Ross Homan, D'Aundre Reed, and Stephen Burton. Remember all those big hits by Ross Homan? The great catches by Stephen Burton? No, me either. Yes, Fusco was a good player for a few years.
- Draft after Frasier (2014), we had 6 late picks: David Yankey, Antone Exum, Kendall James, Shamar Stephen, Brandon Watts, and Jabari Price. Again, Shamar gave us some decent snaps, but everyone else was nothing.
Sure, we got 1 decent player each of those years, but that wasn't "quantity over quality". They could have acquired Fusco and Stephen with the team's first pick in each 5th round and skipped all the frenetic trades for "quantity".
Since 2010, the Vikings have accumulated draft picks in the 5th-7th rounds: 45 picks from 2010-2017, almost double the standard number per team (24 for 3 rounds in 8 years). What do they have to show for those?
- Stefon Diggs
- Brandon Fusco
- Shamar Stephen
- Blair Walsh
- Jeff Locke
- Audie Cole
- David Morgan
Diggs is a stud, no argument, borderline Pro Bowl receiver. Fusco was paid like a good starting RG, so count him as that. Stephen, Cole, and Morgan are backups. Walsh and Locke, well...insert your own judgments. I didn't rate 2017 picks, too soon to judge (though 3 of 7 are already gone).
Someone is bound to argue that the Vikings should get credit for identifying Diggs, Fusco, and Stephen. Sure, but acknowledge those were luck, not genius - all were picked after the team traded away higher picks to turn them into a bunch of lower ones. If they knew Diggs was a star, why didn't they keep an earlier pick and select him sooner rather than take the risk of someone else picking him?? Why didn't they pick Diggs with their original 5th-rounder, or the one they used to pick MyCole Pruitt (before Diggs), or in the 4th instead of TJ Clemmings???
Because, after the 4th round, the Vikings draft team is throwing darts blindfolded. 3 productive players from 45 selections? Come on, don't kid yourself. Diggs was just the nut a blind squirrel occasionally finds. I don't hate Spielman, and most of his picks in rounds 1-3 have been strong, and there are a LOT of other aspects of being a GM besides late-round drafting. But have no illusions: on Day 3 he's just playing games.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ dadevike said:
@ medaille said:
I think it goes without saying that the higher a draft pick the more expectations a team has for them, but it doesn't really explain the strategy of why Spielman brings in 4-5x 6th-7th rounders while the Packers draft strategy leads them to bring in 3x 6th-7th rounders. Why does Spielman target 10 draft picks when the average team drafts less than 8? Why does Spielman choose quantity over quality in the draft?
That strategy might make sense when you have lots of holes on your roster. We did not too long ago. But we don’t now. We need quality more than quantity. I hope RS sees that.
I'm not sure the load-up-on-late-picks "strategy" has EVER made much sense for the Vikings, regardless of how deep the roster was at a given time. Do you remember any year when we were coming off a depleted team and several 5th-7th round picks were able to step in, even as key backups?
Not after the departures of either Childress or Frazier: - Draft after Childress (2011), we had 7 late picks: Brandon Burton, DeMarcus Love, Mistral Raymond, Brandon Fusco, Ross Homan, D'Aundre Reed, and Stephen Burton. Remember all those big hits by Ross Homan? The great catches by Stephen Burton? No, me either. Yes, Fusco was a good player for a few years.
- Draft after Frasier (2014), we had 6 late picks: David Yankey, Antone Exum, Kendall James, Shamar Stephen, Brandon Watts, and Jabari Price. Again, Shamar gave us some decent snaps, but everyone else was nothing.
Sure, we got 1 decent player each of those years, but that wasn't "quantity over quality". They could have acquired Fusco and Stephen with the team's first pick in each 5th round and skipped all the frenetic trades for "quantity".
Since 2010, the Vikings have accumulated draft picks in the 5th-7th rounds: 45 picks from 2010-2017, almost double the standard number per team (24 for 3 rounds in 8 years). What do they have to show for those?
- Stefon Diggs
- Brandon Fusco
- Shamar Stephen
- Blair Walsh
- Jeff Locke
- Audie Cole
- David Morgan
Diggs is a stud, no argument, borderline Pro Bowl receiver. Fusco was paid like a good starting RG, so count him as that. Stephen, Cole, and Morgan are backups. Walsh and Locke, well...insert your own judgments. I didn't rate 2017 picks, too soon to judge (though 3 of 7 are already gone).
Someone is bound to argue that the Vikings should get credit for identifying Diggs, Fusco, and Stephen. Sure, but acknowledge those were luck, not genius - all were picked after the team traded away higher picks to turn them into a bunch of lower ones. If they knew Diggs was a star, why didn't they keep an earlier pick and select him sooner rather than take the risk of someone else picking him?? Why didn't they pick Diggs with their original 5th-rounder, or the one they used to pick MyCole Pruitt (before Diggs), or in the 4th instead of TJ Clemmings???
Because, after the 4th round, the Vikings draft team is throwing darts blindfolded. 3 productive players from 45 selections? Come on, don't kid yourself. Diggs was just the nut a blind squirrel occasionally finds. I don't hate Spielman, and most of his picks in rounds 1-3 have been strong, and there are a LOT of other aspects of being a GM besides late-round drafting. But have no illusions: on Day 3 he's just playing games.
Jor El did the work. It's hard to argue with this. The evidence is what it is and is what I suspected. RS values these late picks way too highly. They are long shots.
So seeing them for what they are, I think you should use the 6th and 7th round picks to take fliers on guys with talent who have fallen for other reasons. And do not accumulate a bunch of late picks unless you intend to use them to trade up in an earlier round.
I think the same could be said for most any team drafting in the late rounds. Ive long been in favor of the Vikes bundling all of their round 5-7 to move up in the earlier rounds.
Quote: @Poiple said:
I think the same could be said for most any team drafting in the late rounds. Ive long been in favor of the Vikes bundling all of their round 5-7 to move up in the earlier rounds.
The Vikings definitely are not better than average teams in late-round success, and there are teams who have done much better. Are they worse? I'm not going to add up all teams, but the article below looked at all teams in 2013 and determined that 16.7% of all players drafted in rounds 5-7 were given a second contract by their original team; that's not a bad measure of "success". So in the period I looked at, that would be Fusco, Walsh, and (let's assume) Diggs. That's 3 of 45, or 6.67%. If we add in David Morgan and Audie Cole (did he get a modest 2nd contract?), we are at 11.1%. At best, we're a little below average.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1600451-are-late-round-draft-picks-the-key-to-success-in-the-nfl
I like the idea of trading the late picks for earlier ones. Problem is, who would trade with us? I'm sure the rest of the league likes having Spielman collecting their late picks...
Antonio Callaway - WR - GatorsNFL Media's Chad Reuter labeled Florida WR Antonio Callaway the biggest "Boom or Bust" player among all receivers and tight ends.
Reuter shared his thoughts about Callaway's (5'11/200) boom-or-bust potential by saying, "In his first two seasons with the Gators, Callaway exhibited explosive ability with the ball in his hands, both as a receiver and returner" but "he didn't play a down in the 2017 season as he was suspended after facing charges of credit card fraud, and that wasn't his first off-field issue." He is expected to be a Day 3 pick, but Draft Analyst's Tony Pauline recently mentioned that multiple people have seen "additional and new red flags pop up." This is bad news for Callaway's draft stock as he was already a dicey selection due to his previous off-field issues.Source: NFL.com
All the talent in the world and jello between the ears. They guy is about to be a multi millionaire and gets caught for credit card fraud? He sounds like a broken toy who will steuggle to learn an nfl playbook.
Maybe I'll just accidentally let my sandal fall off and hit a carpeted floor...
Draft Analyst's Tony Pauline reports "new red flags have popped up" for Florida WR Antonio Callaway.
This is a step in the wrong direction after a strong Combine. Callaway was suspended his entire junior year and had multiple off-field issues at Florida. There's starting upside for teams willing to take a chance on Callaway, but character risks have him trending toward a Day 3 pick.
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