Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ Poiple said:
@ FSUVike said:
So Poiple, three seasons of 4k yards and top 6 QBR posted by Cousins is mediocre. What does that make Keenum then?
Medicore, Tier 2.
what does it make him to you??
Tier 3. He had a better Everything around him than Kirk and Cousins still put up the better numbers.
Interesting that 4 NFL.GMs have targeted Cousins over Keenum but you have them as equals, isn't it?
Um, what? Cousins' numbers look better to you?
Cousins: 64.3% 4093 yards 27 TDs 13 INTs 93.9 rating 52.3 QBR (15th in NFL) 13 fumbles (!)
Keenum: 67.6% 3547 yards 22 TDs 7 INTs 98.3 rating 69.7 QBR (2nd in NFL) 1 fumble
Cousins had more yards and TDs (playing in 1.5 more games), but I don't think you would find anyone who would say that Cousins had better numbers or played better than Keenum last year.
Last years' numbers are what they are. Cousins also did not have Thielen and Diggs and did not have the same kind of running game. So if you want to ignore that then the numbers make sense.
If you include the last 3 years how do the numbers look?
How many playoff wins does all 4 of the QB's have?
Thats what I'm intrested in =) =)
Y'all getting ready for the tampering period?
Right around the corner boys and girls!
We better get ourselves a starting qb somewhere...Frightening as hell to say that coming off a 13/3, one game from the SB season.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
Y'all getting ready for the tampering period?
Right around the corner boys and girls!
We better get ourselves a starting qb somewhere...Frightening as hell to say that coming off a 13/3, one game from the SB season.
I don't know what to think anymore.
Sir bob---going back two to three years to make an argument on how our Wrs were is a moot point in that we had no oline worth piss in a boot providing qb time to complete passes.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ SmashmouthD said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ SmashmouthD said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ SmashmouthD said:
It's up for debate (ha!), but I think Teddy gives us the most production per dollar. Use the draft and the rest of the cap to improve the Lines, and let's go!
A lot of people are making arguments based on a "price" for Teddy Bridgewater that has no market basis, and I believe Bridgewater himself would not agree with any of the bargain rates which are assumed. Fans have argued that we can sign BOTH Bridgewater and Bradford for less than Cousins, or suggested numbers like $10M/year or less for Bridgewater.
Why would Bridgewater think he is worth so little? Here are 4 QBs who reached free agency after their rookie contracts: - Brock Osweiler: 7 career starts, 11 TDs, 6 INTs - 4 year contract for $18M/year
- Mike Glennon: 18 career starts, 30 TDs, 15 INTs - 3 year contract for $15M/year
- Jimmy Garoppolo: 7 career starts, 12 TDs, 5 INTs - 5 year contract for $27.5M/year
- Teddy Bridgewater: 28 career starts, 28 TDs, 22 INTs
One of these is far more accomplished than the others, and also has an 11-5 season, playoff start, and +3,000 yard passing season on his resume. So why would Bridgewater and his agent say, "Oh thank you so much, Vikings, I'm delighted to sign a deal for half what Osweiler or Glennon got - even though the salary cap and QB salaries are even higher then when they signed!"
If Bridgewater had somehow hit free agency after his 2015 season, he would be offered contracts of $20M per year and above.
The only reason you can discount Teddy is if you believe he is damaged goods. If the Vikings have approached him with that kind of offer, he doesn't want it - he doesn't believe he is damaged goods. He is going to argue with other teams that he is 100% healthy and should be judged on his NFL achievements. Maybe he's fooling himself, but that's his right and he might find some team is impressed with his health and workouts and will give him a lot - at least more than $10M, which is a low salary by NFL starting quarterback standards.
The idea we could either have Cousins, or have Bridgewater PLUS an extra $20M in cap space, is unrealistic. No way Bridgewater would take a cheap deal unless every other team rejects him in free agency.
With any player, his market is his market. What is he likely to be offered that he will accept?
No doubt he's shown more than the other QBs you mention, other than Garoppolo. But it's the knee injury that will make other teams nervous.
I had in mind he'd sign a one-year deal with us for for $8-$12 million. Which would allow us to get an outside 3T signed, as well as all of our free agents.
He might sign that - but only if & after he finds out no team will give him $15M or more. That's starting QB money. Teddy started for 2 years, he thinks of himself as a starter, and many of his teammates reportedly tell him he should be a starter. No doubt his family, friends, and agent tell him he's a starter.
Funny thing is, his biggest fans think he's a starter, too - but most of them also think he should take the kind of contract that Nick Foles signed with the Eagles last year to backup Carson Wentz after being waived by two other teams! Come on - is he the QB of the Vikings' future or is he a bargain-bin project?
Nobody knows whether Teddy is the future or a bargin-bin project. That's why he would bet on himself with a one-year, team-friendly deal.
Clarify: do you mean that Bridgewater would take a 1-year, $12M deal from the Vikings, rather than a 3-year $45M deal from another team (like what the Bears gave Glennon)?
I don't see why, unless he tries to take some free agent visits next week and every other team tells his agent that they think Teddy is finished in the NFL / not worth the risk. If that happens, I don't really want to bet more on him than we wasted on Sharrif Floyd last season.
I don't mean to be rude, but I want to understand what scenario could put Bridgewater here at such a bargain. I think most of these "alternatives" - Teddy or Sam for $10M, Case for $18M - are just fan fantasies that aren't realistic.
Due to the severity of Teddy's injury, I don't think he'll be offered a multi-year contract by anyone. If he is, it will be extremely low-value.
I do think he could be offered $8-12 million on a one-year deal. Maybe someplace like Buffalo or Arizona. Maybe Cleveland.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ Poiple said:
Kirk and Cousins? Is that James Thaddeus Kirk?
James Tiberius Kirk..
Even when they try to get cute they fail.
Here's something else they fail at: responding to specific Keenum critiques.
His mobility makes him special, they say. But it was the Offensive Line's fault for his performance in the Playoffs, not his, they say. So he's only mobile when the Line is good?
He's so accurate and doesn't turn the ball over, they say. But they're silent whenever I bring up the fact that Case had at least 6 Interceptions hit Defenders in the hands and were dropped (Zimmer's 'horseshoe').
And is he really the right kind of accurate? I mean the 'hit your two stud receivers in stride for YAC' accurate. Not the 'chuck up throws that look like punts that resulted in your two stud receivers ranking top five in contested catches and saving several from being picks' accurate.
But he's got that It Factor, they say. Which factor is that exactly? The one where he holds the ball too long and takes awful sacks that knock the team out of FG range? Or the one where he stares down his target and misses guys who are wide open? Or the one where he'd rather throw into coverage on early downs when the checkdown for four easy yards is uncovered?
Keep telling me I see only what I want to see while ignoring valid points raised by many posters.
Here's what I see. Case, with clearly the better team, failed to produce at the level Kirk did this year.
Keenum will get $20-22, Cousins will get $25-27. I'll pay the extra coin for the guy who's produced three straight years, warts and all, over the guy who's only produced once, warts and all.
I disagree
Case got hit 25 % precent of the plays in the playoffs. Edit: And he was under pressure 45 times in 2 games .Not many QB's would have a good game under them conditions.
The injuries really hurt the OL, and in my opinion the straw that broke the camels back was switching everybody around. Not to mention the D laying an egg.
SHOW ME the colum in the NFL stats for almost int's. :p
Case had how many int's through out the season?
My thoughts are, Case would go for 18-20 million. Not bad for a 13 game winner and NFC title game.
Cases seasonal QBR and wins and awards is what counts.
Bottom line is by Wednesday we should know who our new QB is and that's all that really counts.
Keenum is a tough one for me to figure out. He performed much better than any of us could have hoped, but I couldn't shake the feeling that he was riding a hot streak. He made a lot of high risk throws, he tended to extend plays too long at times (his mobility helped a lot more than it hurt, but there were times when the better choice was throw the ball out of bounds or checkdown), he rarely seemed to get past his second read, and he would make a couple passes per game that were just baffling. But through some combination of skill, Diggs and Thielen winning contested passes, luck, and coaching from Shurmur, he was able to not have the questionable decision making/mistakes come back to hurt him. They eventually caught up to him against the Eagles, but the OL and D share the blame as well. I think those are the types of things that give the Vikings pause with Keenum.
It will definitely be very interesting to see what direction the Vikings go for at QB. Cousins is the front runner, but there are a lot of moving pieces.
Quote: @Norse said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ Poiple said:
Kirk and Cousins? Is that James Thaddeus Kirk?
James Tiberius Kirk..
Even when they try to get cute they fail.
Here's something else they fail at: responding to specific Keenum critiques.
His mobility makes him special, they say. But it was the Offensive Line's fault for his performance in the Playoffs, not his, they say. So he's only mobile when the Line is good?
He's so accurate and doesn't turn the ball over, they say. But they're silent whenever I bring up the fact that Case had at least 6 Interceptions hit Defenders in the hands and were dropped (Zimmer's 'horseshoe').
And is he really the right kind of accurate? I mean the 'hit your two stud receivers in stride for YAC' accurate. Not the 'chuck up throws that look like punts that resulted in your two stud receivers ranking top five in contested catches and saving several from being picks' accurate.
But he's got that It Factor, they say. Which factor is that exactly? The one where he holds the ball too long and takes awful sacks that knock the team out of FG range? Or the one where he stares down his target and misses guys who are wide open? Or the one where he'd rather throw into coverage on early downs when the checkdown for four easy yards is uncovered?
Keep telling me I see only what I want to see while ignoring valid points raised by many posters.
Here's what I see. Case, with clearly the better team, failed to produce at the level Kirk did this year.
Keenum will get $20-22, Cousins will get $25-27. I'll pay the extra coin for the guy who's produced three straight years, warts and all, over the guy who's only produced once, warts and all.
I disagree
Case got hit 25 % precent of the plays in the playoffs. Edit: And he was under pressure 45 times in 2 games .Not many QB's would have a good game under them conditions.
The injuries really hurt the OL, and in my opinion the straw that broke the camels back was switching everybody around. Not to mention the D laying an egg.
SHOW ME the colum in the NFL stats for almost int's. :p
Case had how many int's through out the season?
My thoughts are, Case would go for 18-20 million. Not bad for a 13 game winner and NFC title game.
Cases seasonal QBR and wins and awards is what counts.
Bottom line is by Wednesday we should know who our new QB is and that's all that really counts.
You have got to love the wisdom of the superfans who know it all while they demean the QB who takes them to the NFCC and has outstanding numbers all season.
I get a kick out of it. The internet is full of guys impressed with themselves and then entertain us with their lunacy. Hilarious.
I am fine with whoever the front office picks but this stuff is entertaining. lol
Quote: @Poiple said:
@ Norse said:
@ FSUVike said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ Poiple said:
Kirk and Cousins? Is that James Thaddeus Kirk?
James Tiberius Kirk..
Even when they try to get cute they fail.
Here's something else they fail at: responding to specific Keenum critiques.
His mobility makes him special, they say. But it was the Offensive Line's fault for his performance in the Playoffs, not his, they say. So he's only mobile when the Line is good?
He's so accurate and doesn't turn the ball over, they say. But they're silent whenever I bring up the fact that Case had at least 6 Interceptions hit Defenders in the hands and were dropped (Zimmer's 'horseshoe').
And is he really the right kind of accurate? I mean the 'hit your two stud receivers in stride for YAC' accurate. Not the 'chuck up throws that look like punts that resulted in your two stud receivers ranking top five in contested catches and saving several from being picks' accurate.
But he's got that It Factor, they say. Which factor is that exactly? The one where he holds the ball too long and takes awful sacks that knock the team out of FG range? Or the one where he stares down his target and misses guys who are wide open? Or the one where he'd rather throw into coverage on early downs when the checkdown for four easy yards is uncovered?
Keep telling me I see only what I want to see while ignoring valid points raised by many posters.
Here's what I see. Case, with clearly the better team, failed to produce at the level Kirk did this year.
Keenum will get $20-22, Cousins will get $25-27. I'll pay the extra coin for the guy who's produced three straight years, warts and all, over the guy who's only produced once, warts and all.
I disagree
Case got hit 25 % precent of the plays in the playoffs. Edit: And he was under pressure 45 times in 2 games .Not many QB's would have a good game under them conditions.
The injuries really hurt the OL, and in my opinion the straw that broke the camels back was switching everybody around. Not to mention the D laying an egg.
SHOW ME the colum in the NFL stats for almost int's. :p
Case had how many int's through out the season?
My thoughts are, Case would go for 18-20 million. Not bad for a 13 game winner and NFC title game.
Cases seasonal QBR and wins and awards is what counts.
Bottom line is by Wednesday we should know who our new QB is and that's all that really counts.
You have got to love the wisdom of the superfans who know it all while they demean the QB who takes them to the NFCC and has outstanding numbers all season.
I get a kick out of it. The internet is full of guys impressed with themselves and then entertain us with their lunacy. Hilarious.
I am fine with whoever the front office picks but this stuff is entertaining. lol
Well, I'm glad you're enjoying it. More people need to laugh and quit taking life so serious... even the Case Keenum fans.
:-D
You guys think because i stick up for Keenum that he is the one that I prefer. Sure I am a Keenum fan. Im more than a little surprised more of you all arent. He played his guts out and had more success than anyone else since Favre. I enjoyed this season a ton. Im nearly 60 and it was in my top 5 sasons. (My favorite was Moss’s first, wrecking Greenbay.)
I like Teddy the best but those knees freak me out. HUGE FAN.
Sam coming in last year and doing what he did... I thought we were set for the next five years.
But I really dont get how everyone isnt a huge Keenum fan. 22-7, took us to the NFCC. What a great story.
There are ways to say that you prefer another QB for next year without demeaning Keenum’s job he did last year. For those that cant... screw them all. I wouldnt want to have a beer with any of ya.
Cousins might be better, and if so I hope the team lands him and can afford to bring back Diggs and co. Diggs is going to be a huge contract.
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