How Elite is Bradford?

[Guest]

@Poiple said:

@BattleLakeRaider said:
Case is a great kid, but don't kid yourself about when healthy who the better quarterback is.

I would hardly call him a kid.  And like many here, you have your own definition of a what makes a quarterback.  It is an antiquated view of a statue in the pocket with an accurate arm.
 
Your view fails to aknowledge that abilities like sensing pressure, knowing when and which direction to move and then knowing when its time to break for it and run aren’t really skills at all. You dont place a premium in the ability to keep your eyes downfield or being able to throw accurately on the run.

With the shape of the vikings offensive line our fans should appreciate that maybe a guy who knows when its time to run and who had 22 TDs and only 7 interceptions while going 13-3, was actually a great match for this team.  

Each Qb wins or loses based on his abilities to move the ball forward and win the game.  Instead of meeting some peoples view of how it should be done, I will take the “W”

And you fail to acknowledge that Case threw a MINIMUM of 6 INTs that were flat out dropped by Defenders.

And that's before factoring in Diggs & Thielen being Top 5 in Contested Catches.

Neither is sustainable. More of those passes hitting Defenders will get caught. You can't ask Diggs & Thielen to keep making all those tightly contested catches.

And do you even want them to? Elite Route Runners like they are should be hit in stride all over the field to maximize YAC. Not be forced to go over guys to catch passes like TEs and Possession WRs.

And let's talk about that vaunted mobility for a second. When the Line is playing great he extends plays even longer with that ability to slide around.

But when the Line isn't playing great he's getting hit and taking sacks just like any other QB.

So Case needs great Line play every bit as much as Sam, Teddy or Kirk. 

There's also that myopia thing where he decides where he's going to throw pre-snap then stares his target down while often missing someone who's wide open. And don't get me started about his propensity to throw into coverage on early downs while missing the open checkdown.

None of this sounds like a 'modern QB' to me.

[Guest]

The words "elite" and "franchise" are fleeting.

Like about a third of the QBs in the NFL, with a good supporting cast and a good offense, Bradford would be considered elite by most. He's got size, arm, accuracy, he's smart, makes good decisions. The biggest factor that goes into it is supporting cast IMO. 

[Guest]

Bradford needs an elite O-Line because of lack of mobility and injury concerns, but his arm talent means he can be great with lesser receivers;
Keenum is mobile and can make due with a mediocre O-Line, but he needs elite receivers to make up for average accuracy.

Two completely different styles of QB.

Do you know who would be good in our offense?  Pre-injury Teddy.  Both mobile and accurate, especially short-to-intermediate.

[Guest]

@medaille said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@Poiple said:

@BattleLakeRaider said:
Case is a great kid, but don't kid yourself about when healthy who the better quarterback is.

I would hardly call him a kid.  And like many here, you have your own definition of a what makes a quarterback.  It is an antiquated view of a statue in the pocket with an accurate arm.
 
Your view fails to aknowledge that abilities like sensing pressure, knowing when and which direction to move and then knowing when its time to break for it and run aren’t really skills at all. You dont place a premium in the ability to keep your eyes downfield or being able to throw accurately on the run.

With the shape of the vikings offensive line our fans should appreciate that maybe a guy who knows when its time to run and who had 22 TDs and only 7 interceptions while going 13-3, was actually a great match for this team.  

Each Qb wins or loses based on his abilities to move the ball forward and win the game.  Instead of meeting some peoples view of how it should be done, I will take the “W”

statue in a pocket... i have read a lot made about Sams lack of mobility and yes it seemed as such... but doing a little research says thats hardly the case.

year      games        sack %     league rank (best being #1)
2010- 16 games     5.4%          #12
2011    10 games    9.2%          #30
2012   16 games     6%             #14
2013    7 games      5.4%          #9
2014   IR
2015    14 games    5%             #15
2016   15 games     6.3%           #20

and we know the only time he ever really had much of an OL was in 15 with Philly  overall career sack% is 6.2%

Case in 16 in 10 games was 6.7% with the Rams for 24th   and 4.4% this year for 6th.  5.3% for his career with the about 40% of his attempts coming this year.  If Case is the poster child for mobility in this picture Sam is really only taking about one more sack per 100 pass attempts or roughly 1 additional sack every 3 games.

sure this doesnt paint the complete picture, but considering how historically shitty the olines have been for Sam... I dont know that he is as much of a pocket liability as we are making him out to be. (although considering our last memory was that chicago game.. its kinda understandable to think that way.)

for the record... rogers has career sack % of 6.9%,  great arms will often negate mobility issues.  

I think Sam behind the line that Case had this year would have been surprisingly better than his career numbers...at least when he isnt stoned ( i am pretty sure he wasnt in his right mind for that bears game)

Mobility is over rated.  If you add mobility to a top QB, that's a game changer.  If you're a mediocre QB that's mobile, it's going to average out that you're still mediocre, but you'll have some splashy plays thrown in there.  The most important part of being QB is still mental processing.  It's figuring out what the defense is doing and where to go with the ball half a second quicker and thinking on your feet when things start to break down.  If you take away Rodgers mobility or Wilson's mobility, they will still be great QBs.