Quote: @AGRforever said:
at least with case we have a dude with two healthy knees. yall that want to start teddy are nuts. theres a dang good chance that hes never the same let alone improves upon where he was.
Yeah, WTF does Sugarman and the surgeons know.... and by the way IIRC Case blew a knee in college.
The reality is Teddy can not make the majority of the intermediate-deep throws that Sam made against the Saints, and has never produced the results we saw from Keenum this season. Add in the knee injury and I just can't put my trust in him as THE guy. After being out of football for 2 years.
As someone mentioned don't count Sam out, if that cleanup of his knee fixed the problem.
Quote: @Norse said:
The reality is Teddy can not make the majority of the intermediate-deep throws that Sam made against the Saints, and has never produced the results we saw from Keenum this season. Add in the knee injury and I just can't put my trust in him as THE guy. After being out of football for 2 years.
As someone mentioned don't count Sam out, if that cleanup of his knee fixed the problem.
Reality is you are passing judgement on a kid who was only entering his 3rd year, had made improvements in each of his ford 2 years, and from all accounts was looking to make a big leap into that 3rd year. Reality is you don't know what Teddy can or cannot do at this point. The coaches know, and they've said he is looking very good, his teammates know and they say the same, but you want to create your own version of "reality"?
I am actually to the point of hoping he does get to move on, because so many fans here are expecting him to fail that no matter how good he would play it would never be good enough. So many people are getting so invested in the notion of him being unable to improve on what we saw in 15 or that his leg is going to fall off that he will never be able to convince them otherwise.
I dont think its worth chancing next season to see if Teddy can get it done or not.The time to strike is now.
Quote: @prairieghost said:
I don't know how we could keep both Case and Teddy. If by some miracle we convinced both of them to stay and compete for the starter's job, how would we pay them? I mean in order to keep Case supposedly he may command over 20 mil. There's no way Teddy would sign for a lesser amount than Case and that's because I have to believe that in Teddy's mind he'd win that camp competition (and I honestly think he would, too). He isn't going to be the starter and get paid backup money. And, conversely, I'm sure Case wouldn't want to back up Teddy. Both guys are going to want to be the starter.
Geoff, I know you already said in this thread that the team won't guarantee the starter's job to either Teddy or Sam. If we don't resign Case and we don't enter the Kirk Cousins sweepstakes, wouldn't that then guarantee either Teddy or Sam as starter for 2018 if we sign either one of them? If neither are guaranteed the job, who (if not Case or Cousins) would be any kind of competition for the starting job for Sam or Teddy? The only way I can see not guaranteeing either of them the job would be if we resigned both of them. But why in the world would Sam and Teddy agree to a camp competition against each other?
Just going on what we know about the Vikings not signing Teddy or Sam as unquestioned starter, that leads me to believe we're going to be either retaining Case as the starter (by virtue of tag or an actual long-term deal) or we are indeed getting in the Cousins sweepstakes. It makes sense in light of Sam and Teddy's injuries and the uncertainty that those injuries create, but at this point if we let Teddy go then I'm all for going after Cousins.
I think they'll toll Bridgewater.
Quote: @Norse said:
I dont think its worth chancing next season to see if Teddy can get it done or not.The time to strike is now.
and i think that Case is the worst option of the bunch to try and develop a stronger offense. his limited arm and tendencies to lock onto receivers makes him a liability that cant be over come with better blocking. I hate to sound like I think he is complete shit, but of the 3 he gives me the most pause in terms of elevating the offense. I think he is a quality back up or short term starter, but as far as giving the league another year of taking away the out routes and jamming Diggs and Theilen or using bracket coverages to force him into holding the ball and or making overly contested throws, that is the chance I dont see worth taking.
if the team isnt going to go the economical route and try and get at least one good QB out of the 2 lower cost prospects in Sam and Teddy, then they should go all out for Cousins. why go middle of the road? Do you honestly think that Case has more game than what we saw this year? I dont see his arm getting stronger, nor do I think he will suddenly start to see the entire field and use his eyes to move defenders. he is a school yard QB and that is great for a while, but his short comings are becoming more apparent to opposing defensive coordinators.
with all of the case criticism you would think he lead us to a 7-9 season. smh....
Jets are reportedly willing to pay Cousins $60 million in his first year...So, he can say what he wants to about going to a winner, but $60 million will go a long way towards easing the discomfort of a sub .500 team...
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Norse said:
The reality is Teddy can not make the majority of the intermediate-deep throws that Sam made against the Saints, and has never produced the results we saw from Keenum this season. Add in the knee injury and I just can't put my trust in him as THE guy. After being out of football for 2 years.
As someone mentioned don't count Sam out, if that cleanup of his knee fixed the problem.
Reality is you are passing judgement on a kid who was only entering his 3rd year, had made improvements in each of his ford 2 years, and from all accounts was looking to make a big leap into that 3rd year. Reality is you don't know what Teddy can or cannot do at this point. The coaches know, and they've said he is looking very good, his teammates know and they say the same, but you want to create your own version of "reality"?
I am actually to the point of hoping he does get to move on, because so many fans here are expecting him to fail that no matter how good he would play it would never be good enough. So many people are getting so invested in the notion of him being unable to improve on what we saw in 15 or that his leg is going to fall off that he will never be able to convince them otherwise.
I think this is a bit much. The reality is that Teddy did not suffer just a ligament tear or tears. He suffered an injury where there are not many examples of players coming back AND returning to their old form.
That old form of Teddy's still needed work and yes, he did look good in the 2016 pre-season but that is still just the pre-season. He still needed to do it in the regular season.
It is perfectly normal for people to be unsure about Teddy and not 100% sold on him going forward due to the injury.
If the team was not ready to win NOW then maybe they take a shot and see if Teddy is able to do the things they see in "practice" in real games.
Taking a chance on that is risking wasting the efforts of the defense.
The reality is that anyone who expresses a lack of confidence due to that injury is being a labelled a hater for the most part.
What players have returned from this kind of injury and what are the percentages? Extremely low.
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Norse said:
The reality is Teddy can not make the majority of the intermediate-deep throws that Sam made against the Saints, and has never produced the results we saw from Keenum this season. Add in the knee injury and I just can't put my trust in him as THE guy. After being out of football for 2 years.
As someone mentioned don't count Sam out, if that cleanup of his knee fixed the problem.
Reality is you are passing judgement on a kid who was only entering his 3rd year, had made improvements in each of his ford 2 years, and from all accounts was looking to make a big leap into that 3rd year. Reality is you don't know what Teddy can or cannot do at this point. The coaches know, and they've said he is looking very good, his teammates know and they say the same, but you want to create your own version of "reality"?
I am actually to the point of hoping he does get to move on, because so many fans here are expecting him to fail that no matter how good he would play it would never be good enough. So many people are getting so invested in the notion of him being unable to improve on what we saw in 15 or that his leg is going to fall off that he will never be able to convince them otherwise.
I think this is a bit much. The reality is that Teddy did not suffer just a ligament tear or tears. He suffered an injury where there are not many examples of players coming back AND returning to their old form.
That old form of Teddy's still needed work and yes, he did look good in the 2016 pre-season but that is still just the pre-season. He still needed to do it in the regular season.
It is perfectly normal for people to be unsure about Teddy and not 100% sold on him going forward due to the injury.
If the team was not ready to win NOW then maybe they take a shot and see if Teddy is able to do the things they see in "practice" in real games.
Taking a chance on that is risking wasting the efforts of the defense.
The reality is that anyone who expresses a lack of confidence due to that injury is being a labelled a hater for the most part.
What players have returned from this kind of injury and what are the percentages? Extremely low.
Show me a list of players that have dislocated their knee. I van only think of a handful and know of 1 that came back, but they were WRs and RBs which are much more physically demanding positions on the knee.
Teddy was a kid when he was drafted, and was only beginning to mature when he got hurt. I think any issues that we had with his arm were going to be laid to rest as he matured and the Vikings put a decent line in front of him and gave him some quality targets and decent play calling. All things Case had the advantages of when people want to make comparisons.
If he was a running QB I could understand the concern of his knee holding up, but he isnt so I think if the coaches are happy with where he is at in relation to 2016 and his mobility is on par with then, no reason not to give him a shot.
I used to believe in windows, I don't anymore. I believe in systems and we've got a good one, no need to change what they are doing to take a shot. Keep building a strong team the way they have and good things will happen.
Lots of comparisons of Zim and Green, I don't see it. Green was an egotist that dismissed the importance of defense, while Zim has been pretty hands off with his offenses, he has shown that he wants to see it improve as he has always tried to surround himself with the best offensive minds available. In Zim I trust and with him our window will be open more than closed. If he is good with Teddy I am good with Teddy. We should know in a few weeks I guess.
|
