Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ PSBLAKE said:
the Vikings have to solve the QB situation. if wenhave a chance to get a franchise QB you must go for it. the consistant contenders all have a franchise QB.
Agreed, just not sure Cousins is truly a "franchise qb"
Maybe he is with this surround?
Will be fascinating and potentially harrowing to see how the Vikings manage this position.
Hes as franchise as you can get that you dont draft or trade for that isnt in his upper 30s
This is sadly what people don't realize. You can argue all day that he isn't a top 10 QB, but when do you expect one of the elite QB's to come available at no cost? Cousins is the best UFA QB since Brees coming off his shoulder injury in 2006. Yes, better than Manning.
You'll pay a premium for that due to scarcity.
If what we're hearing about Cousins (he's ours if we want him) is true (do we have a direct quote?), we just turned our 3-QB dilemma into a 4-QB dilemma. Not that I'm complaining. The Broncos have a 0-QB dilemma.
Money has a lot to do with this decision. For example, I'd probably take Teddy at 10M over Cousins at 25M. But who's the best QB? In my opinion, it's Bradford. Money no object? Cousins. Bradford's 2 ACLs and a missed season due to pain in the same knee, eliminates him from this. Most upside? This is where I have trouble. If I trust my eyes and instinct on what I saw in '14 and '15 and the summer of '16, I go with Teddy, but I'll admit I haven't yet watched Cousins with a critical eye. And Teddy's knee thing is a factor in this as well.
Case is still in the conversation, but I can't imagine a team with this many options going with the shortest, weakest, most inaccurate QB of the four, especially considering what his contract will look like.
Cousins hasn't directly been quoted saying that Minnesota is the preference. But through the back channels a few media outlets have heard its true. Personally I've heard its really a two team race between Denver and Minnesota. Money will obviously play into it but going onto a team that's ready to win helps Cousins as well. Regardless of guarantees/average salary there is a better chance he'll play out the full contract, build legacy, and earn future money as well.
What we don't know is how interested the Vikings are in Cousins. They have personnel meetings later this week and will get their OC squared away ASAP. We probably will start learning/hearing more then.
The Vikings dilemma regardless of QB needs to figure out is how much of our offenses' production was Case vs. the supporting cast. Why? Because it can indirectly give you more confidence in keeping Teddy plus a veteran backup similar to the role Case was in this past season. If that ends up costing $15M or so for two QB's you can make a very good argument in that direction. But if Case's market will be close to Smith's contract value of $23M per year I can't rationalize not waiting to see how much Cousins really wants.
Out of the prospective OC candidates that you know about, are there any that you feel might be better fits for Bradford, Bridgewater, Cousins, or Keenum?
The question of what degree of our success was Case and what was the supporting cast is interesting. In general, I think that the supporting cast was a bigger factor. The OL was improved, they had good depth at running back, and receivers like Diggs and Thielen gave Case a big margin for error. What Case offered was mobility, which allowed him to extend plays and cover for the OL as they got banged up. He was also not afraid to force the ball to receivers. I think better QBs would have checked down on a lot of those throws, but he was confident/single minded enough to trust that Diggs and Thielen would win contested catches. I also think he was lucky. He made a lot of high risk throws and in general the ball bounced his way. Unfortunately, those risky decisions caught up to him in the playoffs, but those plays were there all season.
The question then moves back to the value of the supporting cast. Bradford looked elite in the 1st game and I think the supporting cast allowed Keenum to overachieve. Bridgewater did not have the same level of supporting cast when he was QB, not to mention he was playing in a scheme that was not suited to his strengths. Though we still do not know about his mobility/pocket presence post injury. With Cousins, I'm not familiar enough with Washington to say how much his supporting cast helped/hurt him, but I think we have the pieces here for him to play at a high level. I also think that regardless of whomever we sign at QB, we need an experienced backup.
its not like our offense was the 98 squad. I put alot of our sucess on Pat and Case.
Quote: @Tyr said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ PSBLAKE said:
the Vikings have to solve the QB situation. if wenhave a chance to get a franchise QB you must go for it. the consistant contenders all have a franchise QB.
Agreed, just not sure Cousins is truly a "franchise qb"
Maybe he is with this surround?
Will be fascinating and potentially harrowing to see how the Vikings manage this position.
Hes as franchise as you can get that you dont draft or trade for that isnt in his upper 30s
This is sadly what people don't realize. You can argue all day that he isn't a top 10 QB, but when do you expect one of the elite QB's to come available at no cost? Cousins is the best UFA QB since Brees coming off his shoulder injury in 2006. Yes, better than Manning.
You'll pay a premium for that due to scarcity.
If what we're hearing about Cousins (he's ours if we want him) is true (do we have a direct quote?), we just turned our 3-QB dilemma into a 4-QB dilemma. Not that I'm complaining. The Broncos have a 0-QB dilemma.
Money has a lot to do with this decision. For example, I'd probably take Teddy at 10M over Cousins at 25M. But who's the best QB? In my opinion, it's Bradford. Money no object? Cousins. Bradford's 2 ACLs and a missed season due to pain in the same knee, eliminates him from this. Most upside? This is where I have trouble. If I trust my eyes and instinct on what I saw in '14 and '15 and the summer of '16, I go with Teddy, but I'll admit I haven't yet watched Cousins with a critical eye. And Teddy's knee thing is a factor in this as well.
Case is still in the conversation, but I can't imagine a team with this many options going with the shortest, weakest, most inaccurate QB of the four, especially considering what his contract will look like.
Cousins hasn't directly been quoted saying that Minnesota is the preference. But through the back channels a few media outlets have heard its true. Personally I've heard its really a two team race between Denver and Minnesota. Money will obviously play into it but going onto a team that's ready to win helps Cousins as well. Regardless of guarantees/average salary there is a better chance he'll play out the full contract, build legacy, and earn future money as well.
What we don't know is how interested the Vikings are in Cousins. They have personnel meetings later this week and will get their OC squared away ASAP. We probably will start learning/hearing more then.
The Vikings dilemma regardless of QB needs to figure out is how much of our offenses' production was Case vs. the supporting cast. Why? Because it can indirectly give you more confidence in keeping Teddy plus a veteran backup similar to the role Case was in this past season. If that ends up costing $15M or so for two QB's you can make a very good argument in that direction. But if Case's market will be close to Smith's contract value of $23M per year I can't rationalize not waiting to see how much Cousins really wants.
Out of the prospective OC candidates that you know about, are there any that you feel might be better fits for Bradford, Bridgewater, Cousins, or Keenum?
The question of what degree of our success was Case and what was the supporting cast is interesting. In general, I think that the supporting cast was a bigger factor. The OL was improved, they had good depth at running back, and receivers like Diggs and Thielen gave Case a big margin for error. What Case offered was mobility, which allowed him to extend plays and cover for the OL as they got banged up. He was also not afraid to force the ball to receivers. I think better QBs would have checked down on a lot of those throws, but he was confident/single minded enough to trust that Diggs and Thielen would win contested catches. I also think he was lucky. He made a lot of high risk throws and in general the ball bounced his way. Unfortunately, those risky decisions caught up to him in the playoffs, but those plays were there all season.
The question then moves back to the value of the supporting cast. Bradford looked elite in the 1st game and I think the supporting cast allowed Keenum to overachieve. Bridgewater did not have the same level of supporting cast when he was QB, not to mention he was playing in a scheme that was not suited to his strengths. Though we still do not know about his mobility/pocket presence post injury. With Cousins, I'm not familiar enough with Washington to say how much his supporting cast helped/hurt him, but I think we have the pieces here for him to play at a high level. I also think that regardless of whomever we sign at QB, we need an experienced backup.
You hope that any OC is able to work with the personnel he's given. But I think that either Stefanski or DeFilippo would have a preference for which QB they'd prefer to work with.
Stefanski has worked with everyone on the Vikings roster but probably has the best feel for both Case and Teddy. Either fits more of a traditional WCO. Cousins also probably fits but I think the offense would be more conservative than what Gruden gave him in Washington. There also have been rumors that Stefanski and Keenum are a package deal due to their relationship.
DeFilippo is more of a wild card but has experience with Bradford. Without seeing him in an OC role recently you don't know what system he'd install. Cousins would likely be the best fit for his system though due to a combination of his durability and ability to work the entire field.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ Tyr said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ PSBLAKE said:
the Vikings have to solve the QB situation. if wenhave a chance to get a franchise QB you must go for it. the consistant contenders all have a franchise QB.
Agreed, just not sure Cousins is truly a "franchise qb"
Maybe he is with this surround?
Will be fascinating and potentially harrowing to see how the Vikings manage this position.
Hes as franchise as you can get that you dont draft or trade for that isnt in his upper 30s
This is sadly what people don't realize. You can argue all day that he isn't a top 10 QB, but when do you expect one of the elite QB's to come available at no cost? Cousins is the best UFA QB since Brees coming off his shoulder injury in 2006. Yes, better than Manning.
You'll pay a premium for that due to scarcity.
If what we're hearing about Cousins (he's ours if we want him) is true (do we have a direct quote?), we just turned our 3-QB dilemma into a 4-QB dilemma. Not that I'm complaining. The Broncos have a 0-QB dilemma.
Money has a lot to do with this decision. For example, I'd probably take Teddy at 10M over Cousins at 25M. But who's the best QB? In my opinion, it's Bradford. Money no object? Cousins. Bradford's 2 ACLs and a missed season due to pain in the same knee, eliminates him from this. Most upside? This is where I have trouble. If I trust my eyes and instinct on what I saw in '14 and '15 and the summer of '16, I go with Teddy, but I'll admit I haven't yet watched Cousins with a critical eye. And Teddy's knee thing is a factor in this as well.
Case is still in the conversation, but I can't imagine a team with this many options going with the shortest, weakest, most inaccurate QB of the four, especially considering what his contract will look like.
Cousins hasn't directly been quoted saying that Minnesota is the preference. But through the back channels a few media outlets have heard its true. Personally I've heard its really a two team race between Denver and Minnesota. Money will obviously play into it but going onto a team that's ready to win helps Cousins as well. Regardless of guarantees/average salary there is a better chance he'll play out the full contract, build legacy, and earn future money as well.
What we don't know is how interested the Vikings are in Cousins. They have personnel meetings later this week and will get their OC squared away ASAP. We probably will start learning/hearing more then.
The Vikings dilemma regardless of QB needs to figure out is how much of our offenses' production was Case vs. the supporting cast. Why? Because it can indirectly give you more confidence in keeping Teddy plus a veteran backup similar to the role Case was in this past season. If that ends up costing $15M or so for two QB's you can make a very good argument in that direction. But if Case's market will be close to Smith's contract value of $23M per year I can't rationalize not waiting to see how much Cousins really wants.
Out of the prospective OC candidates that you know about, are there any that you feel might be better fits for Bradford, Bridgewater, Cousins, or Keenum?
The question of what degree of our success was Case and what was the supporting cast is interesting. In general, I think that the supporting cast was a bigger factor. The OL was improved, they had good depth at running back, and receivers like Diggs and Thielen gave Case a big margin for error. What Case offered was mobility, which allowed him to extend plays and cover for the OL as they got banged up. He was also not afraid to force the ball to receivers. I think better QBs would have checked down on a lot of those throws, but he was confident/single minded enough to trust that Diggs and Thielen would win contested catches. I also think he was lucky. He made a lot of high risk throws and in general the ball bounced his way. Unfortunately, those risky decisions caught up to him in the playoffs, but those plays were there all season.
The question then moves back to the value of the supporting cast. Bradford looked elite in the 1st game and I think the supporting cast allowed Keenum to overachieve. Bridgewater did not have the same level of supporting cast when he was QB, not to mention he was playing in a scheme that was not suited to his strengths. Though we still do not know about his mobility/pocket presence post injury. With Cousins, I'm not familiar enough with Washington to say how much his supporting cast helped/hurt him, but I think we have the pieces here for him to play at a high level. I also think that regardless of whomever we sign at QB, we need an experienced backup.
You hope that any OC is able to work with the personnel he's given. But I think that either Stefanski or DeFilippo would have a preference for which QB they'd prefer to work with.
Stefanski has worked with everyone on the Vikings roster but probably has the best feel for both Case and Teddy. Either fits more of a traditional WCO. Cousins also probably fits but I think the offense would be more conservative than what Gruden gave him in Washington. There also have been rumors that Stefanski and Keenum are a package deal due to their relationship.
DeFilippo is more of a wild card but has experience with Bradford. Without seeing him in an OC role recently you don't know what system he'd install. Cousins would likely be the best fit for his system though due to a combination of his durability and ability to work the entire field.
It will be an interesting decision. The Vikings were doing a lot of good things on offense under Shurmur and you'd think that Stefanski is the best bet to continue that. That being said, Philly was doing some really nice things from a game planning perspective and I think there are things we can learn from that. Is the assumption that if we don't hire Stefanski as OC, then he would join Shurmur in New York, or could they pull off a best of both worlds and hire DeFilippo and keep Stefanski as a QB coach or passing game coordinator?
One concern I would have with DeFilippo is that he was already getting HC buzz this year, so if we could entice him away from Philly, then he may only be around for a year. We'd likely be able to get a few seasons out of Stefanski before you'd need to worry about losing him.
Quote: @Tyr said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ Tyr said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Agreed, just not sure Cousins is truly a "franchise qb"
Maybe he is with this surround?
Will be fascinating and potentially harrowing to see how the Vikings manage this position.
Hes as franchise as you can get that you dont draft or trade for that isnt in his upper 30s
This is sadly what people don't realize. You can argue all day that he isn't a top 10 QB, but when do you expect one of the elite QB's to come available at no cost? Cousins is the best UFA QB since Brees coming off his shoulder injury in 2006. Yes, better than Manning.
You'll pay a premium for that due to scarcity.
If what we're hearing about Cousins (he's ours if we want him) is true (do we have a direct quote?), we just turned our 3-QB dilemma into a 4-QB dilemma. Not that I'm complaining. The Broncos have a 0-QB dilemma.
Money has a lot to do with this decision. For example, I'd probably take Teddy at 10M over Cousins at 25M. But who's the best QB? In my opinion, it's Bradford. Money no object? Cousins. Bradford's 2 ACLs and a missed season due to pain in the same knee, eliminates him from this. Most upside? This is where I have trouble. If I trust my eyes and instinct on what I saw in '14 and '15 and the summer of '16, I go with Teddy, but I'll admit I haven't yet watched Cousins with a critical eye. And Teddy's knee thing is a factor in this as well.
Case is still in the conversation, but I can't imagine a team with this many options going with the shortest, weakest, most inaccurate QB of the four, especially considering what his contract will look like.
Cousins hasn't directly been quoted saying that Minnesota is the preference. But through the back channels a few media outlets have heard its true. Personally I've heard its really a two team race between Denver and Minnesota. Money will obviously play into it but going onto a team that's ready to win helps Cousins as well. Regardless of guarantees/average salary there is a better chance he'll play out the full contract, build legacy, and earn future money as well.
What we don't know is how interested the Vikings are in Cousins. They have personnel meetings later this week and will get their OC squared away ASAP. We probably will start learning/hearing more then.
The Vikings dilemma regardless of QB needs to figure out is how much of our offenses' production was Case vs. the supporting cast. Why? Because it can indirectly give you more confidence in keeping Teddy plus a veteran backup similar to the role Case was in this past season. If that ends up costing $15M or so for two QB's you can make a very good argument in that direction. But if Case's market will be close to Smith's contract value of $23M per year I can't rationalize not waiting to see how much Cousins really wants.
Out of the prospective OC candidates that you know about, are there any that you feel might be better fits for Bradford, Bridgewater, Cousins, or Keenum?
The question of what degree of our success was Case and what was the supporting cast is interesting. In general, I think that the supporting cast was a bigger factor. The OL was improved, they had good depth at running back, and receivers like Diggs and Thielen gave Case a big margin for error. What Case offered was mobility, which allowed him to extend plays and cover for the OL as they got banged up. He was also not afraid to force the ball to receivers. I think better QBs would have checked down on a lot of those throws, but he was confident/single minded enough to trust that Diggs and Thielen would win contested catches. I also think he was lucky. He made a lot of high risk throws and in general the ball bounced his way. Unfortunately, those risky decisions caught up to him in the playoffs, but those plays were there all season.
The question then moves back to the value of the supporting cast. Bradford looked elite in the 1st game and I think the supporting cast allowed Keenum to overachieve. Bridgewater did not have the same level of supporting cast when he was QB, not to mention he was playing in a scheme that was not suited to his strengths. Though we still do not know about his mobility/pocket presence post injury. With Cousins, I'm not familiar enough with Washington to say how much his supporting cast helped/hurt him, but I think we have the pieces here for him to play at a high level. I also think that regardless of whomever we sign at QB, we need an experienced backup.
You hope that any OC is able to work with the personnel he's given. But I think that either Stefanski or DeFilippo would have a preference for which QB they'd prefer to work with.
Stefanski has worked with everyone on the Vikings roster but probably has the best feel for both Case and Teddy. Either fits more of a traditional WCO. Cousins also probably fits but I think the offense would be more conservative than what Gruden gave him in Washington. There also have been rumors that Stefanski and Keenum are a package deal due to their relationship.
DeFilippo is more of a wild card but has experience with Bradford. Without seeing him in an OC role recently you don't know what system he'd install. Cousins would likely be the best fit for his system though due to a combination of his durability and ability to work the entire field.
It will be an interesting decision. The Vikings were doing a lot of good things on offense under Shurmur and you'd think that Stefanski is the best bet to continue that. That being said, Philly was doing some really nice things from a game planning perspective and I think there are things we can learn from that. Is the assumption that if we don't hire Stefanski as OC, then he would join Shurmur in New York, or could they pull off a best of both worlds and hire DeFilippo and keep Stefanski as a QB coach or passing game coordinator?
One concern I would have with DeFilippo is that he was already getting HC buzz this year, so if we could entice him away from Philly, then he may only be around for a year. We'd likely be able to get a few seasons out of Stefanski before you'd need to worry about losing him.
The word on the street is that Stefanski would likely jump shit and head to NYC if he doesn't get the promotion. Who would blame him though? I think the Vikings would still have a chance to retain him though. Even in NY he wouldn't become a play caller since Shurmur is going to hold onto that for the time being. So really it would be a title only promotion with no change coming to his role.
There is a chance DeFilippo would bounce after a single season as OC for a HC job, but that means you have talent. Although it seems like a bad thing you want to be able to feed HC's into the league as an organization since it helps you attract the best coaches in the long run.
DeFilippo seems to have his sights set on becoming a Head Coach despite not being a coordinator. A lot of experts think he is ready to make that jump. I believe he interviewed for the Cardinals job, but the timing of the Eagles success definitely hurt his chances to land one of the open vacancies this year. Since it appears that Patricia is taking over the Lions, and Daniels is taking over in Indy, that doesn't leave him with a head coaching option at this point. I think he ends up staying in Philly and will continue his search for a head coaching opportunity after next season. I also don't want a coordinator who is already looking for his next job to be in charge of our offense. To me Stefanski makes the most sense. He has proven his loyalty to the Vikings and has worked his way up the ladder to earn this opportunity. I also like his analytics capabilities. He's bright young coach who is highly thought of in League circles and is not another retread.
did Stefanski get asked to interview for any positions outside of Minny and the apparent offer to follow Shurmur to NY? just curious how bright his star really is.
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