Quote: @Ralphie said:
I'm not saying Case is any better than Cousins. Yes, he has a stronger arm and is a better deep ball passer. But he hasn't been on the Browns and has had some very good WR's. He's been in 1 1/2 playoff games, so it's not like he's this proven post-season asset.
If we could land him for a reasonable contract, fine. But to back the Brinks truck up to his house is something that leaves me scratching my head. As someone else posted, why is Wash. so willing to let him go for the likes of Alex Smith?
Who were his very good WR's?
Sigh. The concept of context once again comes up.
Am I the only one with the Redzone? The Skins played from behind a lot. So they were forced to become one dimensional. That meant Kirk had to throw the ball, a ton.
And he had to throw it a ton to players like Pryor (first season with the team), Doctson (always hurt and not exactly making Washington look like geniuses for taking and forcing Minnesota to take Treadwell), Grant (who?), Crowder, whom I like, and Old Man Davis because Reed was always hurt.
Remember how we all thought Washington would be without 3 or even 4 Starters on the O-Line when Minnesota played them? But then the Starters actually got healthy during the week and played. That was actually a rarity for them.
Folks, Cook fumbled a lot at FSU because he was trying to hard to make plays. Why? He was literally the only threat my 'Noles had. Same thing for Cousins. Too many picks for all the reasons I just described.
Amd yet, with a surfeit of talent he easily out produced Keenum, who had a surplus of talent.
And despite being about the same age Kirk has put what, 3 or 4 good seasons together to Case's one. Sure, you can say Keenum never had a roster like this to play with. You know what? Neither has Cousins. But he's still performed.
Now translate that to having better WRs, RB, O-Line and Defense.
Another thing to consider. The Defense won't dominate for the 16 or so games Minnesota will need to win to lock up home field advantage and make it to the Super Bowl. We've already seen what happens when Case tries to carry the load by himself. Time for a QB that can actually bail out the Defense for a change.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ Ralphie said:
Somebody again explain why QB B is worth more money than QB A?
|
CMP
|
ATT
|
YDS
|
CMP%
|
AVG
|
TD
|
LNG
|
INT
|
FUM
|
QBR
|
RAT
|
"A" 2017 Regular Season
|
325
|
481
|
3,547
|
67.6
|
7.37
|
22
|
65
|
7
|
1
|
71.3
|
98.3
|
"B" 2017 Regular Season
|
347
|
540
|
4,093
|
64.3
|
7.58
|
27
|
74
|
13
|
13
|
50.5
|
93.9
|
Because QB A has a stat line of 3,023 yards at a 56.7 CMP% with 15 TD and 9 INT's over 16 games prior to this season. That scream regression. QB B has had a similar stat line the last three seasons. You'd arguably be paying additional money to hedge your risk against regression.
But Case's "starting" time has been spotty at best with the Rams, Houston and Vikes. Hopping back and forth between three teams and different coaches/coordinators as a backup...then starter...then backup...is not a good mix for any young QB.
But for the money we could get Case for and where those other $$$ assets could be placed (OL, DL, DB, et al), again, is Cousins the sure thing some are claiming?
FSU you eloquently stated what i've been trying to say. very well thought out post. we hid our QB this year where the Redskins had to rely on Cousins for EVERYTHING.
Is he A-rod where he can drag his entire team to success? no. but we dont need that. we need a QB who is more than someone we hide, so we can rely on a running game and defense.
Quote: @golfervike said:
@ Ralphie said:
I'm not saying Case is any better than Cousins. Yes, he has a stronger arm and is a better deep ball passer. But he hasn't been on the Browns and has had some very good WR's. He's been in 1 1/2 playoff games, so it's not like he's this proven post-season asset.
If we could land him for a reasonable contract, fine. But to back the Brinks truck up to his house is something that leaves me scratching my head. As someone else posted, why is Wash. so willing to let him go for the likes of Alex Smith?
Who were his very good WR's?
Josh Doctson, Brian Quick, Jamison Crowder, Maurice Harris, Ryan Grant, Robert Davis, Jordan Reed, Vernon Davis. Except for the TE's, most young, but again, not the Browns...
Edit...and these are just 2017's...add Pierre Garcon, Desean Jackson, Santana Moss, Josh Morgan for past years.
But still crappy compared to Thielen/Diggs/Rudolph. With a poor running game and perpetually dinged Line.
But Ralphie hit on something Jimmy also mentioned. The money spent on Cousins could be used to fix holes.
I get that idea in a vacuum but would like to hear who some of these players are as I've only looked at 3T so far and am not seeing a smart upgrade there.
You guys all get tired of me talking about opportunity vs.cost. But if the opportunity is there to upgrade multiple spots in FA that would be lost by the cost of signing Kirk I can certainly support that.
So let's hear some names!
Quote: @FSUVike said:
Sigh. The concept of context once again comes up.
Am I the only one with the Redzone? The Skins played from behind a lot. So they were forced to become one dimensional. That meant Kirk had to throw the ball, a ton.
And he had to throw it a ton to players like Pryor (first season with the team), Doctson (always hurt and not exactly making Washington look like geniuses for taking and forcing Minnesota to take Treadwell), Grant (who?), Crowder, whom I like, and Old Man Davis because Reed was always hurt.
Remember how we all thought Washington would be without 3 or even 4 Starters on the O-Line when Minnesota played them? But then the Starters actually got healthy during the week and played. That was actually a rarity for them.
Folks, Cook fumbled a lot at FSU because he was trying to hard to make plays. Why? He was literally the only threat my 'Noles had. Same thing for Cousins. Too many picks for all the reasons I just described.
Amd yet, with a surfeit of talent he easily out produced Keenum, who had a surplus of talent.
And despite being about the same age Kirk has put what, 3 or 4 good seasons together to Case's one. Sure, you can say Keenum never had a roster like this to play with. You know what? Neither has Cousins. But he's still performed.
Now translate that to having better WRs, RB, O-Line and Defense.
Another thing to consider. The Defense won't dominate for the 16 or so games Minnesota will need to win to lock up home field advantage and make it to the Super Bowl. We've already seen what happens when Case tries to carry the load by himself. Time for a QB that can actually bail out the Defense for a change.
Excellent points. But you forgot that he had TJ Clemmings starting for 2 games too. Cousins fumbled twice in those games and I would venture a guess it was Clemmings man.
Ultimately it comes down to two factors:
1.) How much does a contract for Cousins end up being (the market will dictate this)
2.) Would he even be willing to come here (from what I've heard the answer is Yes)
Everyone gets so caught up with the salary cap and jump to the conclusion that we can't resign our defensive starters. That isn't necessarily true (I'll write something up in the next few days).
The Vikings account for the cap years in advance and if you think they didn't have a plan to pay up for Bradford if he would have had another strong season, you're simply wrong. That would have been in the range of $25M annually. If the Vikings deem Cousins provides a stable QB situation for the next 4+ years they'll make the contract work.
But if you were to make a bet I wouldn't say the Vikings are the favorites. I'd still put my money on either Keenum or Bridgewater returning in 2018.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
But still crappy compared to Thielen/Diggs/Rudolph. With a poor running game and perpetually dinged Line.
But Ralphie hit on something Jimmy also mentioned. The money spent on Cousins could be used to fix holes.
I get that idea in a vacuum but would like to hear who some of these players are as I've only looked at 3T so far and am not seeing a smart upgrade there.
You guys all get tired of me talking about opportunity vs.cost. But if the opportunity is there to upgrade multiple spots in FA that would be lost by the cost of signing Kirk I can certainly support that.
So let's hear some names!
The Vikings have done a great job the last couple seasons of building up their roster in FA and drafting well. I don't think there is a high priced FA available this season that would be worth pursuing unless we make a run at Cousins.
The biggest decision the Vikings have to make is at QB. Once that's done, I think we'll be relatively quiet... re-sign a couple of our own FAs... maybe a veteran CB if Newman decides to retire. I would expect the biggest chunk of our off-season spending will go to whoever we sign at QB and extending Diggs, Hunter, Kendricks, and potentially Barr.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
But still crappy compared to Thielen/Diggs/Rudolph. With a poor running game and perpetually dinged Line.
But Ralphie hit on something Jimmy also mentioned. The money spent on Cousins could be used to fix holes.
I get that idea in a vacuum but would like to hear who some of these players are as I've only looked at 3T so far and am not seeing a smart upgrade there.
You guys all get tired of me talking about opportunity vs.cost. But if the opportunity is there to upgrade multiple spots in FA that would be lost by the cost of signing Kirk I can certainly support that.
So let's hear some names!
Really pointless to try until we get a better idea of what the pool will look like. Still weeks away from looking for the who's among a lot of guys that won't see free agency.
|
