Who gives us best chance to win? Cousins or one of the current 3?

[purplefaithful]

Assuming you get Cousins for a rate that doesn't gut your ability to keep the band together on D...

[Guest]

Can we also assume Teddy and Sam are 100% healthy?

1) Sam
2)Cousins
3)Case
4)Teddy

I'm not a fan of Cousins.  He's ok, but doesn't do it for me long term for big $$s.  I really don't see him being that much better than Case.  He doesn't really have that "big arm" either. 

I still haven't ruled out the possibility of Teddy.  He's a smart QB that can move better than all these guys.  I still hope if Teddy can be healthy, he can be Russell Wilson like.

[Guest]

I'd take Bradford first if they even think the knee is looking pretty good. There has to be some reasons that Washington is so against Cousins....it concerns me. Case or Teddy is a wash for me, I've soured on Teddy's upside some.

[Guest]

Cousins is probably the most reliable at this point...  you'll pay a lot more than you would for Teddy, Bradford, or Case...  but there are no knee issues to worry about (Sam and Teddy) and no ceiling to worry about (Case and Teddy). 
His numbers in his 3 seasons as a starter put Bradford, Teddy, and Keenum to shame.  He's the safest bet to achieve top 12 QB production, but he'll also be the most expensive of the bunch.  Basically the Vikings need to ask themselves whether they are comfortable paying a bunch of a money for a proven option at QB for the next 5 years or hope that one of their 3 in-house candidates can play at Cousins level in 2018 and beyond?

[Guest]

@Wetlander said:
Cousins is probably the most reliable at this point...  you'll pay a lot more than you would for Teddy, Bradford, or Case...  but there are no knee issues to worry about (Sam and Teddy) and no ceiling to worry about (Case and Teddy). 
His numbers in his 3 seasons as a starter put Bradford, Teddy, and Keenum to shame.  He's the safest bet to achieve top 12 QB production, but he'll also be the most expensive of the bunch.  Basically the Vikings need to ask themselves whether they are comfortable paying a bunch of a money for a proven option at QB for the next 5 years or hope that one of their 3 in-house candidates can play at Cousins level in 2018 and beyond?

why can we assume that cousins will be a top 1/3 QB in what ever system that we use?  we have argued that this guy or that guy is a system player,  its tough for me to stomach giving an unproven player that much cash unless we were to know that he can perform in our system,  sure we could change our system to fit his strengths,  but then does that play into the strengths of our other offensive players.   IMO Cousins has would have just as many questions around him as the other 3.

[Guest]

I will say this: although Cousins concerns me a bit, he's highly productive. And I think his skills would be maximized by playing indoors a minimum of 9 games a year like he would in Minnesota (Lions game on the road). He's 6'3", around 215 lbs and has an underrated arm. 29 years old, same as Keenum and 9 months younger than Bradford. 

I just don't think Minnesota is going to get involved with him.

[Guest]

Assuming that Smith and Brees are not in the conversation
and that we don’t know what Bridgewater or Bradford looked like in practice, I
think Cousins is the best short term pick, just because he’s the lowest risk to
not seeing the field while providing competent play, but he’s probably not
worth the cost.  We’d probably get 2
years of keeping the D together before his cost inhibited that.  As Wetlander said, he doesn’t have knee
issues and you know his floor/ceiling pretty well.


I think so much of it comes down to the stuff we don’t know,
but the coaches should know.  Did
Bradfords knee just need to be cleaned or is it a perennial problem?  Is Bridgewater really killing it in practice
such that a dramatic jump in performance is likely.


I think if you feel comfortable at all with either Bradford
or Bridgewater, you roll with them, if not try to get Cousins.  If the knee gods destroy our QB for the 3rd
year in a row, we’ll have to send a nuke into the sun.

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

why can we assume that cousins will be a top 1/3 QB in what ever system that we use?  we have argued that this guy or that guy is a system player,  its tough for me to stomach giving an unproven player that much cash unless we were to know that he can perform in our system,  sure we could change our system to fit his strengths,  but then does that play into the strengths of our other offensive players.   IMO Cousins has would have just as many questions around him as the other 3.

Because he's been at least a top 12 QB in just about every major statistical category since he took over as Washington's starter.  He had Pierre Garcon, Desean Jackson, and Jordan Reed as his top targets in 2015 and 2016.  Those two left in 2017 and Reed was injured most of this past season...  and he still put up very good numbers with Jamison Crowder (good slot WR), the oft-injured Josh Doctson, Ryan Grant (who?), and an old Vernon Davis.
2015
CMP: 69.8% (1st)
PY: 4,166 (10th)
YPA: 7.67 (8th)
TDs: 29 (Tied 12th)
QBR: 101.6 (5th)
2016
CMP: 67.0% (8th)
PY: 4,917 (3rd)
YPA: 8.11 (3rd)
TDs: 25 (13th)
QBR: 97.2 (7th)
2017
CMP: 64.3% (9th)
PY: 4,093 (7th)
YPA: 7.58 (9th)
TDs: 27 (8th)
QBR: 93.9 (12th)
Further...  Cousins played in a West Coast scheme under Jay Gruden similar to what we ran here.  I would assume the Vikings would try to keep a similar scheme to what Shurmur ran since our offensive line is suited to that type of blocking scheme and our offensive skill players fit that system.  Thielen, Diggs, Rudy, and Cook are a much better supporting cast than anything he's had in Washington.
Most of these same players helped Bradford have a career year in 2016 behind a shitty offensive line and helped Case have a career year this season.  It's not that hard to project that Cousins would be able to replicate the same statistical success he had in Washington.  In fact, he could even have his best season to date.

[Guest]

@Wetlander said:

@JimmyinSD said:

why can we assume that cousins will be a top 1/3 QB in what ever system that we use?  we have argued that this guy or that guy is a system player,  its tough for me to stomach giving an unproven player that much cash unless we were to know that he can perform in our system,  sure we could change our system to fit his strengths,  but then does that play into the strengths of our other offensive players.   IMO Cousins has would have just as many questions around him as the other 3.

Because he's been at least a top 12 QB in just about every major statistical category since he took over as Washington's starter.  He had Pierre Garcon, Desean Jackson, and Jordan Reed as his top targets in 2015 and 2016.  Those two left in 2017 and Reed was injured most of this past season...  and he still put up very good numbers with Jamison Crowder (good slot WR), the oft-injured Josh Doctson, Ryan Grant (who?), and an old Vernon Davis.
2015
CMP: 69.8% (1st)
PY: 4,166 (10th)
YPA: 7.67 (8th)
TDs: 29 (Tied 12th)
QBR: 101.6 (5th)
2016
CMP: 67.0% (8th)
PY: 4,917 (3rd)
YPA: 8.11 (3rd)
TDs: 25 (13th)
QBR: 97.2 (7th)
2017
CMP: 64.3% (9th)
PY: 4,093 (7th)
YPA: 7.58 (9th)
TDs: 27 (8th)
QBR: 93.9 (12th)
Further...  Cousins played in a West Coast scheme under Jay Gruden similar to what we ran here.  I would assume the Vikings would try to keep a similar scheme to what Shurmur ran since our offensive line is suited to that type of blocking scheme and our offensive skill players fit that system.  Thielen, Diggs, Rudy, and Cook are a much better supporting cast than anything he's had in Washington.
Most of these same players helped Bradford have a career year in 2016 behind a shitty offensive line and helped Case have a career year this season.  It's not that hard to project that Cousins would be able to replicate the same statistical success he had in Washington.  In fact, he could even have his best season to date.

sorry,  i am just not all that thrilled with him as a QB.  stats can be very misleading.

heres some that can be considered as well.

2015   9-7
2016   8-7-1
2017   7-9

big time stats are great,  but they dont tell a whole picture.  how much of those gaudy numbers are built on prevent defenses because they are playing from behind?   

I dont watch a ton of skins games,  but what I have watched of him has left me thinking that he is a good (not great) QB with some glaring deficiencies in his game and that snyder was dumb to get into a pissing match with him,  but even dumber to make him stay and grossly overpay for the performance he was getting.  good not great and certainly not worth 25+ million per year IMO.

If he would sign for a contact that built up to bigger money after he shows that he can play better,  maybe,  but I would be hesitant to pay what others might.

[Guest]

Just not a Kirk fan - can't really say why. I just don't think he's "The Guy". I see his stats over the past three years, and I SHOULD think we should go get him. But my head just can't wrap my head around having him. Probably illogical on my part. I do think he kind of flamed out the last 1/4 of the year - Skins averaged 17.3 points a game - including only 10 points against the Giants the last game of the season - He  was 20 for 37 / 158 total yards / 0 TD's / 3 Ints.