Jimmy, have you ever been to a Turkish sauna?
I have thought about it Jimmy. Thought about it a lot. I thought that was apparent.
Ask yourself, If I kind of like where I am at? All new facilities and a red hot team. My knee kind of hurts. I wonder how much longer I can play on it? I should probably stay away from drills or my foot might end up backwards. I wonder if they might want to sign me for a couple of years. I would cut a deal to stay here.
Quote: @Poiple said:
Jimmy, have you ever been to a Turkish sauna?
I have thought about it Jimmy. Thought about it a lot. I thought that was apparent.
Ask yourself, If I kind of like where I am at? All new facilities and a red hot team. My knee kind of hurts. I wonder how much longer I can play on it? I should probably stay away from drills or my foot might end up backwards. I wonder if they might want to sign me for a couple of years. I would cut a deal to stay here.
and then you would have no trade clause if you are going to make market concessions to stay at the place which kills your notion of a sign and trade.
Quote: @Norse said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Poiple said:
I am sure there is a reason, I just cant imagine what it would be.
Kenum, if he wins a Superbowl he will be much more expensive.
Bradford/ Bridgewater, other teams are interested. Trade one keep the other?
Its puzzling to me. I am sure there is a reason. One you insiders know anything?
how do you trade a free agent?
Keenums value is what it is, him winning a superbowl without showing much more improvement from what hes shown thus far wont change his value... he is what he is at this point. Besides, I am not sure the coaches are sold on him yet. He really hasnt shown any real consistency in terms of production and has still shown to lock in on targets and his arm strength is a concern.
Teddy and Sam are also huge unknows for their own reasons. I am not sure the coaches are ready to throw in on either of them yet as well.
This might be a case...( yep) where its best to let the market play out and see where we stand as I dont think any of them are worth what they will likely think they are worth.
Keenum has the # 2 QBR in the NFL, He has helped get us to the playoffs with our second best record since 1998.
when is the last time a Viking QB has had a QBR that high?
I guess he is what he is...
Case is in the catbird seat. He plays well, especially a SB appearance and/or win, and he's the next hot thing...here or any other team of his choosing. Arm strength, schmarm strength...he's not Rodgers or Favre, but has a hell of a lot more between the ears than many of the so called "can't misses". He's a winner and took a very rare opportunity and ran with it.
Quote: @Norse said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Poiple said:
I am sure there is a reason, I just cant imagine what it would be.
Kenum, if he wins a Superbowl he will be much more expensive.
Bradford/ Bridgewater, other teams are interested. Trade one keep the other?
Its puzzling to me. I am sure there is a reason. One you insiders know anything?
how do you trade a free agent?
Keenums value is what it is, him winning a superbowl without showing much more improvement from what hes shown thus far wont change his value... he is what he is at this point. Besides, I am not sure the coaches are sold on him yet. He really hasnt shown any real consistency in terms of production and has still shown to lock in on targets and his arm strength is a concern.
Teddy and Sam are also huge unknows for their own reasons. I am not sure the coaches are ready to throw in on either of them yet as well.
This might be a case...( yep) where its best to let the market play out and see where we stand as I dont think any of them are worth what they will likely think they are worth.
Keenum has the # 2 QBR in the NFL, He has helped get us to the playoffs with our second best record since 1998.
when is the last time a Viking QB has had a QBR that high?
I guess he is what he is...
yes, his value is what his value is at this point. what would be the point of signing him now vs in 4 weeks when the season is over? its not like his value is going to sky rocket without significantly better play in the coming weeks, which I find highly unlikely based on the previous 16 weeks. he is what he is and his next contract will reflect that, not some imaginary value inflated by a bobble on his finger. the poster suggested that it would be cheaper now to sign him than to wait, i disagree and what you posted in terms of stats only cements my position, he has had a good year, the playoff results are not likely to increase his value to any GM that is worth a shit, however if he were to play poorly in the playoffs it could limit his offers.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Norse said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Poiple said:
I am sure there is a reason, I just cant imagine what it would be.
Kenum, if he wins a Superbowl he will be much more expensive.
Bradford/ Bridgewater, other teams are interested. Trade one keep the other?
Its puzzling to me. I am sure there is a reason. One you insiders know anything?
how do you trade a free agent?
Keenums value is what it is, him winning a superbowl without showing much more improvement from what hes shown thus far wont change his value... he is what he is at this point. Besides, I am not sure the coaches are sold on him yet. He really hasnt shown any real consistency in terms of production and has still shown to lock in on targets and his arm strength is a concern.
Teddy and Sam are also huge unknows for their own reasons. I am not sure the coaches are ready to throw in on either of them yet as well.
This might be a case...( yep) where its best to let the market play out and see where we stand as I dont think any of them are worth what they will likely think they are worth.
Keenum has the # 2 QBR in the NFL, He has helped get us to the playoffs with our second best record since 1998.
when is the last time a Viking QB has had a QBR that high?
I guess he is what he is...
yes, his value is what his value is at this point. what would be the point of signing him now vs in 4 weeks when the season is over? its not like his value is going to sky rocket without significantly better play in the coming weeks, which I find highly unlikely based on the previous 16 weeks. he is what he is and his next contract will reflect that, not some imaginary value inflated by a bobble on his finger. the poster suggested that it would be cheaper now to sign him than to wait, i disagree and what you posted in terms of stats only cements my position, he has had a good year, the playoff results are not likely to increase his value to any GM that is worth a shit, however if he were to play poorly in the playoffs it could limit his offers.
I agree with you there, majority of signings happen in the off season.
Quote: @Poiple said:
I am sure there is a reason, I just cant imagine what it would be.
Kenum, if he wins a Superbowl he will be much more expensive.
Bradford/ Bridgewater, other teams are interested. Trade one keep the other?
Its puzzling to me. I am sure there is a reason. One you insiders know anything?
Seems like an odd question at this time. In season extensions are rare enough, doubt any would happen in the middle of the playoff run.
Players tend to bet on themselves and are hesitant to take a cheaper deal during the season. The team likely doesn't want to mess with the character of the team. When you are winning, you run with it. Why would you upset what is working right now?
It doesn't matter who is behind center because (these fans) or (those fans) will criticize his play and want someone else, claiming that another guy will do better. In my opinion neither Bradford or Bridgewater would have performed considerably better than Keenum has this season, and I don't believe I'd put more or less faith in any of them in big playoff games. None of the three are elite QBs, but I do think each of them can be above average when healthy. All of them have deficiencies in their game though.
One thing that has stood out for me with Case this year is a turn around
from a very poor redzone offense the previous two seasons. Some will say 'blah blah the o-line, team, playcalling are better blah blah," but Case has helped by making some plays with his feet that Bradford can't and some with throws that Teddy wouldn't try (in '15). Bradford was praised a lot for his play last year despite being sacked a lot. Case's numbers are on par or actually better in some key categories. He's taken fewer sacks due to some better protection, but he's also escaped several that Bradford would not have. Even so, many will never give him credit due to his NFL path. It's like we're using the British royalty line of ascension or social classes to determine how good one can be a QB.
I see absolutely no upside to extending Keenum right now. Even if they're talking now I'm sure they'll wait til the season ends, like it was mentioned earlier in this thread his value isn't going to jump much, if any higher.
As far as Bradford and Bridgewater go, I really think they might wait to see what the market is before jumping into a new contract with either. At this point no one really has any idea how either of them are going to perform once they return. Is Teddy going to be as good or better than he was? Is Sam's knee really going to hold up?
I highly doubt the team is going to do anything with any of them during their time in the playoff.
The Vikings had 0 discussions with Bradford last off-season since they wanted to see him both build on his play in 2016 and stay healthy. Obviously the latter significantly impacted the former. But in hindsight nobody, not even the Vikings, could have seen Keenum jumping into the spotlight like he has. That's complicated things and likely delayed the Vikings negotiating with any of their QB's. But each are going to have a different viewpoint in negotiations:
1. Keenum and his agent haven't engaged the Vikings in contract discussions at this point. Although his value can't get much higher, his reps are smart enough to know the Vikings have no reason to extend Case until they at least see what he does in the post season. They also know UFA is close, which is his best opportunity for significant money over a longer term. Setting aside what he does in the playoffs, there will be a team(s) externally that will view Case as a gap starter and will pony up $15M+ to see if they can recreate this years magic. With the Vikings holding 3 QB's on the roster it is likely in Case's best interest to force his way into the UFA pool unless the Vikings are willing to offer a 3+ year deal or tag him for $20M+.
2. Going into the season the health of Bridgewater was going to simplify which QB the team would feel comfortable moving forward with. Without seeing Bridgewater on the field for any significant playing time what the coaching staff and FO have seen in practice will ultimately dictate his value. Although the MN coaching staff has remained committed to Bridgewater, Teddy is not going to return for a QB competition. The potential of losing a QB competition could tank Bridgewater's value moving forward. At this point the unknown is Teddy's best bargaining chip and with the QB market being ever needy, teams will take significant risk to find a franchise signal caller. The Vikings very well may bet on Teddy, but what is fair? In an ideal world the Vikings can use Tyrod Taylor's contract as precedence. This would get Bridgewater under contract for roughly $12.5M (his would have been 5th year option value) with the option for the Vikings and Teddy to continue or void the deal after a single year. Teddy's injury was horrific but if the Vikings goal was to toll his contract by declining his 5th year option, they may have already made a fatal error.
3. Bradford's situation is likely the least talked about at this point since he's been off the radar since mid-season. People tend to forget that Sam had his best NFL season just a year ago. Go back to his week one performance against New Orleans and you can see the potential that tantalized NFL front offices for years. But quickly the shine wears off after you look at his checkered injury history and the fact his knee is a ticking time bomb. Contractually you cannot franchise Bradford since the cost would be prohibitive, so he is free to leave if that is his preference. When push comes to shove the Vikings may have the most negotiating leverage with Sam. An external team(s) will have interest but it likely won't come with significant term. Sam may be the only QB of the three that would be willing to be in an open QB competition as well since it would pave a path for him to find a long-term deal. I'm not saying Sam is going to be back next year, but I think the foregone conclusion he's out the door is a bit overblown at this juncture.
When you really look at the situation as a whole politics are going to play a significant part in the direction the Vikings move. The Vikings front office has done a good job of finding depth at the QB. But with the franchise tag being the only way to assure a player not making it to the UFA marketplace, each of the QB's on the roster will have the opportunity to have a say in what they want. That lack of leverage over your personnel tends to end poorly for most teams.
thanks for the whole breakdown Geoff. I have a feeling that Teddy will be the QB next year, but my last gut feeling turned out to be gas, so what do I know.
If the Vikes really like what they have in Sloter, then Sam may be a 1 year option. But I don't see them trusting him for more than a 1 year bridge. I like Case and his moxie, but one gets the feeling that Zimmer doesn't trust him. He is gritty and fiery, but is the least talented of the 3.
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