Wonder whats happening with Kwesi?

[JR44]

I am not sure how it can even be on the table for him to have an extension. Out of 3 drafts and 23 picks he has 1 starter. Combine his picks with his awful draft trades and it has been one of the most poor uses of our draft capital in a 3 year stretch. Agree with Sticky, he has been learning on the job and it just not a role you can be learning in. I think JJM works out, but there were 4 QBs already, he had tried to move up and it came down to JJM and Nix. We had to take one, the pick basically selected itself. The use of our 2nd 1st round pick and packaging it with additional draft capital to move up to take a guy who was a total non-factor really cost us this year as those picks could have been used to help our biggest two weaknesses on OL and DL. We just signed two edge rushers and had Jones coming back, why would we invest all that capital on a position that was not our greatest need and a player who was not ready. I have read a lot in his defense about Turner being young, but that is what goes into making smart draft choices, when you are packaging a 1st rounder with additional picks for a non QB it has to be someone who is going to contribute right away, not a development player. It is not going to change, move him to an operations position and get a real GM.

[MaroonBells]

Would guess when it all comes out that he will have final say over the 53 and be very involved in players coming in.

He's not going to have final say over his boss. That is dysfunctional. I think he will have a say tho. But that's where it gets confusing. Where is that line drawn? Because obviously KOC already does have a say, as does Flores. 

One of the things that people take for granted is leadership that doesn't operate unilaterally. There are GMs who will make decisions on their own, without much involvement from their scouting and coaching staff. I think KOC and Flores both have significant roles in deciding which players Kwesi targets in free agency and the draft.

[purplefaithful]

I am not sure how it can even be on the table for him to have an extension.  Out of 3 drafts and 23 picks he has 1 starter.  Combine his picks with his awful draft trades and it has been one of the most poor uses of our draft capital in a 3 year stretch.  Agree with Sticky, he has been learning on the job and it just not a role you can be learning in. I think JJM works out, but there were 4 QBs already, he had tried to move up and it came down to JJM and Nix.  We had to take one, the pick basically selected itself.  The use of our 2nd 1st round pick and packaging it with additional draft capital to move up to take a guy who was a total non-factor really cost us this year as those picks could have been used to help our biggest two weaknesses on OL and DL.  We just signed two edge rushers and had Jones coming back, why would we invest all that capital on a position that was not our greatest need and a player who was not ready.  I have read a lot in his defense about Turner being young, but that is what goes into making smart draft choices, when you are packaging a 1st rounder with additional picks for a non QB it has to be someone who is going to contribute right away, not a development player.  It is not going to change, move him to an operations position and get a real GM.

Let me take a swing at it too...At a very high level, I suspect KAM was charged with winning, culture and financial stability. 

All 3 of those boxes can be checked to some degree;

• Winning: B (no playoff wins, great regular seasons in 2 of his 3)
  
• Culture: A+ (NFLPA rankings etc.)
  
• Financials: B+
  

So from a stoopid fan like me who's just guessing on a Saturday morning, his report card is pretty good. 

Now how he got there? The draft specifically? C- or D. The drafting has to improve or the financial stability crumbles. 

He's not going to have final say over his boss. That is dysfunctional. I think he will have a say tho. But that's where it gets confusing. Where is that line drawn? Because obviously KOC already does have a say, as does Flores. 

One of the things that people take for granted is leadership that doesn't operate unilaterally. There are GMs who will make decisions on their own, without much involvement from their scouting and coaching staff. I think KOC and Flores both have significant roles in deciding which players Kwesi targets in free agency and the draft.

I agree..

KAM strikes me as more collaborative than anything...

This isnt an issue most NFL front offices aren't able to navigate well and avoid dysfunction.

The Vikings with MZ/RS are a poster child for dysfunction unfortunately. 

I'd be surprised if it all of a sudden became an issue causing delays in a KAM extension.  

I suspect its terms causing the hold-up. I gave him a pretty good report card overall, but the draft misses cant be ignored and weighed-in to any contract negotiation. 

I've said it a million times now, there is a systemic drafting problem in the Vikings org that has to be identified and corrected. Either that or start firing some of KOC's staff for not being able to develop IOL and IDL. 

Personally, I think its quality/fit of personnel vs coaching staff deficiencies.

[Canthony]

Let me take a swing at it too...At a very high level, I suspect KAM was charged with winning, culture and financial stability. 

All 3 of those boxes can be checked to some degree;

• Winning: B (no playoff wins, great regular seasons in 2 of his 3)
  
• Culture: A+ (NFLPA rankings etc.)
  
• Financials: B+
  

So from a stoopid fan like me who's just guessing on a Saturday morning, his report card is pretty good. 

Now how he got there? The draft specifically? C- or D. The drafting has to improve or the financial stability crumbles. 


I agree..

KAM strikes me as more collaborative than anything...

This isnt an issue most NFL front offices aren't able to navigate well and avoid dysfunction.

The Vikings with MZ/RS are a poster child for dysfunction unfortunately. 

I'd be surprised if it all of a sudden became an issue causing delays in a KAM extension.  

I suspect its terms causing the hold-up. I gave him a pretty good report card overall, but the draft misses cant be ignored and weighed-in to any contract negotiation. 

I've said it a million times now, there is a systemic drafting problem in the Vikings org that has to be identified and corrected. Either that or start firing some of KOC's staff for not being able to develop IOL and IDL. 

Personally, I think its quality/fit of personnel vs coaching staff deficiencies.

The people blaming KOC is absurd. I am just saying. I just want the terms to come out for KOC. We will see if he has final say or not. To be honest, I will go as far as to say that him and KOC don't have a great working relationship. I don't believe the Wilfs truly buy into KAM either. Otherwise, this deal would be long done by now.

[MaroonBells]

Let me take a swing at it too...At a very high level, I suspect KAM was charged with winning, culture and financial stability. 

All 3 of those boxes can be checked to some degree;

• Winning: B (no playoff wins, great regular seasons in 2 of his 3)
  
• Culture: A+ (NFLPA rankings etc.)
  
• Financials: B+
  

So from a stoopid fan like me who's just guessing on a Saturday morning, his report card is pretty good. 

Now how he got there? The draft specifically? C- or D. The drafting has to improve or the financial stability crumbles. 


I agree..

KAM strikes me as more collaborative than anything...

This isnt an issue most NFL front offices aren't able to navigate well and avoid dysfunction.

The Vikings with MZ/RS are a poster child for dysfunction unfortunately. 

I'd be surprised if it all of a sudden became an issue causing delays in a KAM extension.  

I suspect its terms causing the hold-up. I gave him a pretty good report card overall, but the draft misses cant be ignored and weighed-in to any contract negotiation. 

I've said it a million times now, there is a systemic drafting problem in the Vikings org that has to be identified and corrected. Either that or start firing some of KOC's staff for not being able to develop IOL and IDL. 

Personally, I think its quality/fit of personnel vs coaching staff deficiencies.

Why do we even assume there's a delay or a hold up? Remember, with KOC there was a degree of urgency, since it was reported by Fox Sports and later confirmed by ESPN that there were teams interested in putting together trade offers for O'Connell. 

I'm sure Kwesi will get done before the draft. Also, keep in mind he has advanced economics degrees from both Princeton and Stanford. If I'm the Wilfs, that's the last person I want to see on the other side of the desk.  lol

[Bullazin]

KAM’s a solid B overall, you really can’t argue outside of we don’t know how the 23 and 24 drafts completely shake out yet.  If his 23-25 drafts don’t pan out, then he becomes average ie replacement level and you gotta look hard at his going concern value. 

Free Agency- A
Coach hire Culture - A
Draft- D. 

GPA =9/3. = 3.0.

[comet52]

He's not going to have final say over his boss. That is dysfunctional. I think he will have a say tho. But that's where it gets confusing. Where is that line drawn? Because obviously KOC already does have a say, as does Flores. 

One of the things that people take for granted is leadership that doesn't operate unilaterally. There are GMs who will make decisions on their own, without much involvement from their scouting and coaching staff. I think KOC and Flores both have significant roles in deciding which players Kwesi targets in free agency and the draft.

I agree with you (shocking, I know ).

Fans come up with weird ideas. Some of the stuff being tossed around here about KAM is frankly silly and/or unintentionally hilarious. The Wilfs learned their lessons (slowly as always) from Chili and to a lesser extent Zim--that giving a coach lots of power is just a mess waiting to happen. They wanted and expressly hired KAM/KOC on the basis of it being a collaborative effort.

What I saw in the EOY pressers was KOC expressing a desire to be here and optimism about the process of getting his extension which happened right afterwards. KAM otoh sounded a bit more contrite, stating he "hoped" he could continue in this job he loved. There's clearly something different in the approach to the two extensions - they extended Rick and Mike as a pair back in 2020, I don't know why they wouldn't do that again.

But I also have no idea what the delay is. Could be all sorts of things. I'm willing to speculate--I think maybe they are asking him for a plan to improve drafting/scouting which has frankly been lousy. If I'm the owner that's what I'm asking for because I'm not just going to blindly re-up a guy without discussing that issue and how does he plan to fix it. It's too critical to any future success this team can have.

But I really have no idea what the actual holdup is so for now, just waiting to see what happens.

[Canthony]

I agree with you (shocking, I know ).

Fans come up with weird ideas.  Some of the stuff being tossed around here about KAM is frankly silly and/or unintentionally hilarious.  The Wilfs learned their lessons (slowly as always) from Chili and to a lesser extent Zim--that giving a coach lots of power is just a mess waiting to happen.  They wanted and expressly hired KAM/KOC on the basis of it being a collaborative effort. 

What I saw in the EOY pressers was KOC expressing a desire to be here and optimism about the process of getting his extension which happened right afterwards.  KAM otoh sounded a bit more contrite, stating he "hoped" he could continue in this job he loved.  There's clearly something different in the approach to the two extensions - they extended Rick and Mike as a pair back in 2020, I don't know why they wouldn't do that again. 

But I also have no idea what the delay is.  Could be all sorts of things.  I'm willing to speculate--I think maybe they are asking him for a plan to improve drafting/scouting which has frankly been lousy.  If I'm the owner that's what I'm asking for because I'm not just going to blindly re-up a guy without discussing that issue and how does he plan to fix it.  It's too critical to any future success this team can have. 

But I really have no idea what the actual holdup is so for now, just waiting to see what happens.

I am not really a fan. I analyze the game far more than being a pom pom cheerleader on Sundays like yourself. It is not silly at all. KAM didn't even show up to the final 53 man roster meeting last year. I won't defend that at all. If the Wilfs had any true faith in KAM, that deal would be done by now. Let's wait till the details come out from KOCs deal. I will bet that is what the hold up is. KOC has a lot of say in his deal.

[comet52]

I am not really a fan. I analyze the game far more than being a pom pom cheerleader on Sundays like yourself.

Really?

[Montana Tom]

I compare Kwesi to our most recent GM, Rick "get me some more 7th round draft picks" Spielman.

Kwesi has proven to me that he's pretty adept at juggling the salary cap with Brezinski and acquiring proven talent through FA (particularly this year, when he got an A+ in Free Agency signings after what we all thought was a slow start).

So do you get a proven talent by trading future "maybes" (draft picks)?

It's not all about building a team via the draft. No matter what you say, draft picks are historically a crap shoot. (Dimitrius Underwood anyone?)