Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
So many questions…
Why trade two 2nd rounders so we can have two 1st rounders just so we can draft two 2nd rounders in the 1st round? Why take a center in the 1st round at all? Ever? Take one in the 4th. Why pay Bradbury a $5M bonus if you were just going to replace him in the draft? Why ignore all that DL talent in the late 1st round in order to bolster a top half offensive line when Flores’s front three is practically begging for talent?
I agree with you, but think Powers Johnson could also play left guard as well as center, which is still an unsettled position for us currently. Just put your best 5 lineman out there. If Bradbury is still one of those guys, so be it, but we know he's a liability in half the games he plays. If we draft a rookie quarterback who has to play earlier rather than later, having some semblance of an interior offensive line that can protect him would be helpful..
The Vikings were reportedly very close to signing Christian Wilkins until the Raiders upped their offer. They clearly want and need some help on the DL. What's more, while Bradbury and Brandel can be upgraded, the rookie QB will be much better served with veterans there than rookies. It's just the more prudent move.
Also, everybody and his brother wanted John Michael Schmitz last year. He graded out as the worst center in the NFL last year. I don't think you want your rookie QB to suffer through that. Before Bradbury fell off a cliff when Cousins went down, he was grading as a top 10 center. It's not a given the JPJ would even start over Bradbury. I think it's unlikely actually.
Meanwhile our 5Ts are currently Jerry Tillery and Jonathan Bullard. I draft IOL on day three and use that second 1st on a DT...Murphy, Newton, Fiske. It's not just that DT is where the value is, it's the bigger need.
Yeah, not bad analysis here. I was reading that teams might want Powers-Johnson to play a year at OG before transitioning over to center.
The Vikings desperately need a DT.
I agree with both of you. I've been beating the drum for Byron Murphy for a while now, but you could certainly make an argument that addressing the unsettled interior of our offensive line is just as big of a need. Bottom line is we have a long list of needs on this roster which makes blowing our collective draft wads to move up for a quarterback might not be the best idea. We need players, lots of them, and good ones.
Yep, might not be. Agreed. But....if they LOVE someone and they can get that person, then it's a discussion. Has to be. But KOC and KAM's careers would be tied to this QB. And rightly so. I'm not going to blow a gasket either way. But its obviously going to be very interesting.
I think the only guy they'd do that for is Drake Maye. I think he is clearly the franchise preference, fits the organization, and would probably be the guy theyd give up the 1st in 2025 for. If they can't land him, they'll probably try to maneuver up to 4 or 5 for McCarthy, but I'm just not convinced the difference between McCarthy and even Nix is significant. That's why I say, if they can make it work for reasonable compensation, great, otherwise stand pat, take Penix and retain that extra first to use on another position of need, which are in abundance. It will be very interesting to see how it plays out.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
So many questions…
Why trade two 2nd rounders so we can have two 1st rounders just so we can draft two 2nd rounders in the 1st round? Why take a center in the 1st round at all? Ever? Take one in the 4th. Why pay Bradbury a $5M bonus if you were just going to replace him in the draft? Why ignore all that DL talent in the late 1st round in order to bolster a top half offensive line when Flores’s front three is practically begging for talent?
I agree with you, but think Powers Johnson could also play left guard as well as center, which is still an unsettled position for us currently. Just put your best 5 lineman out there. If Bradbury is still one of those guys, so be it, but we know he's a liability in half the games he plays. If we draft a rookie quarterback who has to play earlier rather than later, having some semblance of an interior offensive line that can protect him would be helpful..
The Vikings were reportedly very close to signing Christian Wilkins until the Raiders upped their offer. They clearly want and need some help on the DL. What's more, while Bradbury and Brandel can be upgraded, the rookie QB will be much better served with veterans there than rookies. It's just the more prudent move.
Also, everybody and his brother wanted John Michael Schmitz last year. He graded out as the worst center in the NFL last year. I don't think you want your rookie QB to suffer through that. Before Bradbury fell off a cliff when Cousins went down, he was grading as a top 10 center. It's not a given the JPJ would even start over Bradbury. I think it's unlikely actually.
Meanwhile our 5Ts are currently Jerry Tillery and Jonathan Bullard. I draft IOL on day three and use that second 1st on a DT...Murphy, Newton, Fiske. It's not just that DT is where the value is, it's the bigger need.
Yeah, not bad analysis here. I was reading that teams might want Powers-Johnson to play a year at OG before transitioning over to center.
The Vikings desperately need a DT.
I agree with both of you. I've been beating the drum for Byron Murphy for a while now, but you could certainly make an argument that addressing the unsettled interior of our offensive line is just as big of a need. Bottom line is we have a long list of needs on this roster which makes blowing our collective draft wads to move up for a quarterback might not be the best idea. We need players, lots of them, and good ones.
Yep, might not be. Agreed. But....if they LOVE someone and they can get that person, then it's a discussion. Has to be. But KOC and KAM's careers would be tied to this QB. And rightly so. I'm not going to blow a gasket either way. But its obviously going to be very interesting.
I think the only guy they'd do that for is Drake Maye. I think he is clearly the franchise preference, fits the organization, and would probably be the guy theyd give up the 1st in 2025 for. If they can't land him, they'll probably try to maneuver up to 4 or 5 for McCarthy, but I'm just not convinced the difference between McCarthy and even Nix is significant. That's why I say, if they can make it work for reasonable compensation, great, otherwise stand pat, take Penix and retain that extra first to use on another position of need, which are in abundance. It will be very interesting to see how it plays out.
Yeah, I agree with much of this. I like Maye. A lot. He's big and more stout than people think. I think Maye and JJM are more the best pieces of clay than anything. I'm probably higher on JJM than you are, that's fine, just differing opinions. Although Maye might have a slightly higher upside, I think JJM has a better and stronger mentality for the NFL. Both good athletes, but JJM probably has him by a tick in that department.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
Here is the one thing we can all agree on;
About 1/2 the fanbase will be unhappy with the decisions they make.
I think in the age of social media and information, that's always going to be the case. Fans are fickle. They are easily influenced. And many tend to get locked into their own opinions.
Anyone that's followed Penix knows that he's a baller, but he's also already injury prone before he's so much as taken a walk-thru snap at the NFL level...so yeah, that worries me a ton. I wouldn't want to burn a first-round pick on someone that's already an injury liability, especially as we can't seem to put a consistent IOL together...for, y'know, the last decade or more.
As I've said on other threads, I'd spend every game terrified any time a defender hit him in the legs...just like I was when Teddy returned from injury. It's hard for me to be enthusiastic; I actually like Darnold's chances at resurgence more than I like Penix's potential endurance.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Here is the one thing we can all agree on;
About 1/2 the fanbase will be unhappy with the decisions they make.
I think in the age of social media and information, that's always going to be the case. Fans are fickle. They are easily influenced. And many tend to get locked into their own opinions.
I call it the age of enrage...
Its starts with our politics and is malignant to all else.
Quote: @Zanary said:
Anyone that's followed Penix knows that he's a baller
Yep, an underrated quality. He's a dawg. To me, he's Deshaun Watson lite. Watson has scrambled more, but I think Penix's injury history has him deciding to not do that as often. But as we saw from his Pro Day, more athletic than many gave him credit for.
Penix is the kind of kid that will get in a shootout in the NFL and answer score for score. Something to be said for that.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ Zanary said:
Anyone that's followed Penix knows that he's a baller
Yep, an underrated quality. He's a dawg. To me, he's Deshaun Watson lite. Watson has scrambled more, but I think Penix's injury history has him deciding to not do that as often. But as we saw from his Pro Day, more athletic than many gave him credit for.
Penix is the kind of kid that will get in a shootout in the NFL and answer score for score. Something to be said for that.
OK, two things:
1. Don't compare anyone to Watson, unless you're guessing at potential STDs or tens of millions lost to sexual assaults...
2. You left out his crunch-n-munch injury history, which doesn't make his judgement a positive. He may have been a "dawg" to come back in against Michigan, but that didn't make it a good idea.
Quote: @Zanary said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ Zanary said:
Anyone that's followed Penix knows that he's a baller
Yep, an underrated quality. He's a dawg. To me, he's Deshaun Watson lite. Watson has scrambled more, but I think Penix's injury history has him deciding to not do that as often. But as we saw from his Pro Day, more athletic than many gave him credit for.
Penix is the kind of kid that will get in a shootout in the NFL and answer score for score. Something to be said for that.
OK, two things:
1. Don't compare anyone to Watson, unless you're guessing at potential STDs or tens of millions lost to sexual assaults...
2. You left out his crunch-n-munch injury history, which doesn't make his judgement a positive. He may have been a "dawg" to come back in against Michigan, but that didn't make it a good idea.
Nah, I recognize his injury history. Said it many times here over the last few weeks. But he has a dawg mentality. Tough minded.
Any QB needs some protection to be successful. I think the thought that Penix needs some kind of absolutely clean pocket at all times to be productive is goofy. He does remind me of DeShaun Watson throwing the football. As far as STDs, that's why they make antibiotics: Penix takes us to the Superbowl, get him a Valtrex sponsorship, I really won't care at that point, lol.
Quote: @Zanary said:
Anyone that's followed Penix knows that he's a baller, but he's also already injury prone before he's so much as taken a walk-thru snap at the NFL level...so yeah, that worries me a ton. I wouldn't want to burn a first-round pick on someone that's already an injury liability, especially as we can't seem to put a consistent IOL together...for, y'know, the last decade or more.
As I've said on other threads, I'd spend every game terrified any time a defender hit him in the legs...just like I was when Teddy returned from injury. It's hard for me to be enthusiastic; I actually like Darnold's chances at resurgence more than I like Penix's potential endurance.
I agree 100%. I think Darnold has a less than 10% chance of even looking like an average back up level QB…. And that’s STILL a better chance than I give Penix of EVER playing 17 games in a season.
Quote: @CFIAvike said:
@ Zanary said:
Anyone that's followed Penix knows that he's a baller, but he's also already injury prone before he's so much as taken a walk-thru snap at the NFL level...so yeah, that worries me a ton. I wouldn't want to burn a first-round pick on someone that's already an injury liability, especially as we can't seem to put a consistent IOL together...for, y'know, the last decade or more.
As I've said on other threads, I'd spend every game terrified any time a defender hit him in the legs...just like I was when Teddy returned from injury. It's hard for me to be enthusiastic; I actually like Darnold's chances at resurgence more than I like Penix's potential endurance.
I agree 100%. I think Darnold has a less than 10% chance of even looking like an average back up level QB…. And that’s STILL a better chance than I give Penix of EVER playing 17 games in a season.
That's a little hot takey. Penix has a serious injury history, and that should be reflected in where he's drafted. But he also hasn't missed a game in two years. Sometimes players put the injuries behind them. I remember thinking the 49ers were nuts for drafting Frank Gore in the 3rd round. He had TWO ACLs at Miami. Not a QB, but a RB with two ACLs! Went on to play 16 years in the NFL.
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