Sam Darnold Ugh

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@supafreak84 said:
Lots if talk the Raiders could be on the outside looking in for a quarterback in the draft (much like us) and could make a strong push for Kirk Cousins in free agency. 

Going to be very interesting to see what Kirk's market actually is for a soon to be 36 year old coming off major injury. It's all going to come down to the most guaranteed money and most years, not the best situation for him as a player. I dont think that comes as a shock to anyone here. I still have to believe though the Vikings have a hard line in the sand they won't cross on an extension. Unfortunately at least a couple teams will probably cross that line, and I say let them. 

Curious why people continue to believe this considering the fact that the last time he was a free agent, he took the 3rd best offer on the table because it was a better situation. 

This is his last chance (likely) to cash in on a contract before retirement and he is the top rated quarterback on the market, even with the injury. I think he is going to have some options and a decision to make, but ultimately takes the deal that pays him the most and the longest. Teams I've heard in the mix; Minnesota, Denver, Oakland, New England, and Atlanta. We'll see what happens soon

[Guest]

@supafreak84 said:

@MaroonBells said:

@supafreak84 said:
Lots if talk the Raiders could be on the outside looking in for a quarterback in the draft (much like us) and could make a strong push for Kirk Cousins in free agency. 

Going to be very interesting to see what Kirk's market actually is for a soon to be 36 year old coming off major injury. It's all going to come down to the most guaranteed money and most years, not the best situation for him as a player. I dont think that comes as a shock to anyone here. I still have to believe though the Vikings have a hard line in the sand they won't cross on an extension. Unfortunately at least a couple teams will probably cross that line, and I say let them. 

Curious why people continue to believe this considering the fact that the last time he was a free agent, he took the 3rd best offer on the table because it was a better situation. 

This is his last chance (likely) to cash in on a contract before retirement and he is the top rated quarterback on the market, even with the injury. I think he is going to have some options and a decision to make, but ultimately takes the deal that pays him the most and the longest. Teams I've heard in the mix; Minnesota, Denver, Oakland, New England, and Atlanta. We'll see what happens soon

Not the most necessarily, but the longest? Yeah. I think we should take him at his word. It's not about the money. It obviously wasn't in 2018 either. It's much more about guarantees, length of term and situation. 

I think if it's close, he signs with Minnesota. It's easily the best situation. Unless the Vikings have pissed him off somehow. There's something he said a couple weeks ago that makes me nervous in that regard. 

"I'm not going to try to sell myself, if you will. I kind of like to let people make their own decisions, because I do think the league needs quarterbacks, and if you're trying to talk yourself out of a quarterback, then I can't help you much."

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@supafreak84 said:

@MaroonBells said:

@supafreak84 said:
Lots if talk the Raiders could be on the outside looking in for a quarterback in the draft (much like us) and could make a strong push for Kirk Cousins in free agency. 

Going to be very interesting to see what Kirk's market actually is for a soon to be 36 year old coming off major injury. It's all going to come down to the most guaranteed money and most years, not the best situation for him as a player. I dont think that comes as a shock to anyone here. I still have to believe though the Vikings have a hard line in the sand they won't cross on an extension. Unfortunately at least a couple teams will probably cross that line, and I say let them. 

Curious why people continue to believe this considering the fact that the last time he was a free agent, he took the 3rd best offer on the table because it was a better situation. 

This is his last chance (likely) to cash in on a contract before retirement and he is the top rated quarterback on the market, even with the injury. I think he is going to have some options and a decision to make, but ultimately takes the deal that pays him the most and the longest. Teams I've heard in the mix; Minnesota, Denver, Oakland, New England, and Atlanta. We'll see what happens soon

Not the most necessarily, but the longest? Yeah. I think we should take him at his word. It's not about the money. It obviously wasn't in 2018 either. It's much more about guarantees, length of term and situation. 

I think if it's close, he signs with Minnesota. It's easily the best situation. Unless the Vikings have pissed him off somehow. There's something he said a couple weeks ago that makes me nervous in that regard. 

"I'm not going to try to sell myself, if you will. I kind of like to let people make their own decisions, because I do think the league needs quarterbacks, and if you're trying to talk yourself out of a quarterback, then I can't help you much."

"If you're trying to talk yourself out of a QB, then I can't help you." When he said this, I thought it was a strange comment to make. Who is he talking about if he's not talking about the Vikings? Could there be some frustration directed at the team in that comment? Was Kwesi openly playing with game-manager type scenarios for the future? Negotiating contracts is tough enough when both sides love each other. But if one side is pissed off, it's probably over. Even if it's just a perception. 

Now we're hearing rumors that Cousins and his family were indeed frustrated by the Vikings approach. I do think there's still a chance Cousins signs with Minnesota if they match the best offer and the Vikings employ a PR campaign using KOC, JJ and others to lobby on their behalf. But it's looking more and more bleak by the day. 

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@MaroonBells said:

@supafreak84 said:

@MaroonBells said:

@supafreak84 said:
Lots if talk the Raiders could be on the outside looking in for a quarterback in the draft (much like us) and could make a strong push for Kirk Cousins in free agency. 

Going to be very interesting to see what Kirk's market actually is for a soon to be 36 year old coming off major injury. It's all going to come down to the most guaranteed money and most years, not the best situation for him as a player. I dont think that comes as a shock to anyone here. I still have to believe though the Vikings have a hard line in the sand they won't cross on an extension. Unfortunately at least a couple teams will probably cross that line, and I say let them. 

Curious why people continue to believe this considering the fact that the last time he was a free agent, he took the 3rd best offer on the table because it was a better situation. 

This is his last chance (likely) to cash in on a contract before retirement and he is the top rated quarterback on the market, even with the injury. I think he is going to have some options and a decision to make, but ultimately takes the deal that pays him the most and the longest. Teams I've heard in the mix; Minnesota, Denver, Oakland, New England, and Atlanta. We'll see what happens soon

Not the most necessarily, but the longest? Yeah. I think we should take him at his word. It's not about the money. It obviously wasn't in 2018 either. It's much more about guarantees, length of term and situation. 

I think if it's close, he signs with Minnesota. It's easily the best situation. Unless the Vikings have pissed him off somehow. There's something he said a couple weeks ago that makes me nervous in that regard. 

"I'm not going to try to sell myself, if you will. I kind of like to let people make their own decisions, because I do think the league needs quarterbacks, and if you're trying to talk yourself out of a quarterback, then I can't help you much."

"If you're trying to talk yourself out of a QB, then I can't help you." When he said this, I thought it was a strange comment to make. Who is he talking about if he's not talking about the Vikings? Could there be some frustration directed at the team in that comment? Was Kwesi openly playing with game-manager type scenarios for the future? Negotiating contracts is tough enough when both sides love each other. But if one side is pissed off, it's probably over. Even if it's just a perception. 

Now we're hearing rumors that Cousins and his family were indeed frustrated by the Vikings approach. I do think there's still a chance Cousins signs with Minnesota if they match the best offer and the Vikings employ a PR campaign using KOC, JJ and others to lobby on their behalf. But it's looking more and more bleak by the day. 

Who cares if he and his family 'are frustrated'? Seriously. He'll be 36 coming back from a major injury. Will the wife and kids be able to scrape enough money together to feed themselves until Kirk gets a new contact? And also: who knows if ANY of this rumor shit is even true. Its LIAR SEASON.

I really like Kirko and want him back. But if some fans think that KAM and KOC aren't being strategic here and its not part of their plan, then I guess I just have to laugh a bit. They are saying the right things but read the writing on the wall and you'll see that they've always been at least partially ok with not resigning Cousins. Preferred? Probably not. But planned for nonetheless.

There's still things to unfold yet. 

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:
"I'm not going to try to sell myself, if you will. I kind of like to let people make their own decisions, because I do think the league needs quarterbacks, and if you're trying to talk yourself out of a quarterback, then I can't help you much."

Do we know the original source for these quotes?  Like surely this is a response to some sort of question he received.  It seems like that question would provide a lot of context.

[Guest]

@medaille said:

@MaroonBells said:
"I'm not going to try to sell myself, if you will. I kind of like to let people make their own decisions, because I do think the league needs quarterbacks, and if you're trying to talk yourself out of a quarterback, then I can't help you much."

Do we know the original source for these quotes?  Like surely this is a response to some sort of question he received.  It seems like that question would provide a lot of context.

I've not been able to find a full Q&A dialogue. It was a lengthy interview about how he was approaching the offseason--the injury, being a free agent, taking a hometown discount, whether he thought the Vikings can compete for a championship. Here's the whole thing with just his quotes. But now that I see this comment was made in the context of the injury, maybe the Vikings first offer to Kirk included some kind of injury discount. Still, it's a puzzling thing to say. It seems a little bitchy. But maybe that's just me. 

About winning a championship
"No one thing is in a vacuum. Usually you win football games because there are some other factors that are really important to me that are going to have to be there to be able to win football games, so it ultimately all ties together. The factors work together, but I certainly believe we can do that here. I think it’s you need great leadership, you need to stay healthy, you need to draft well, you need to sign some impactful free agents even if they’re not the big-name free agents."
About taking a hometown discount
“I think God has blessed me financially beyond my wildest dreams, so at this stage in my career, the dollars are really not what it’s about,” Cousins said. “I had a coach who I was with, who was a younger coach at the time, this was back eight, nine years ago, before my first franchise tag, and we were talking about the situation and he made a great comment and he said, ‘Kirk, it’s not about the dollars, but it is about what the dollars represent.’ I thought that was an interesting comment that he made. There will always be some of that, but at today’s point, structure is probably more important.”

About being a free agent
You ultimately just want to try and find a fit that makes the most sense and also where you feel the most peace about,” Cousins said. “I felt great peace and clarity when I committed to Michigan State. I felt great peace when I arrived in Washington and saw the coaches I was going to get to work with. I felt great peace when I came here and that is really what you are looking for this time around. Where am I getting peace from the lord and following it.”
About the injury
"Yeah, I am not going to try to sell myself, if you will," said Cousins when asked how he'll address the injury concerns. "I kind of like to let people make their own decisions, because I do think the league needs quarterbacks. If you are trying to talk yourself out of a quarterback, then I can’t help you much. The Achilles is going to heal. It is on track, and I am a pocket passer and there is a lot of time before next season. So, for a lot of reasons, it doesn’t concern me, but I can’t convince other people that, and that is okay."
About drafting a QB
"Yeah, I think every year in a sense in my career there is always that potential of a new quarterback being brought in. There is always a succession plan. I don’t think you can do your job as a leader of an organization without saying, ‘What is our succession plan? What do we have down the pipeline?’ That is just being responsible. Due diligence. Whether it was Nate Sudfeld being drafted in Washington, Kellen Mond, Jaren Hall, there is always going to be that dynamic of what is our plan moving forward. The contract timing tends to be done in March and the draft is in late April, so you kind of do one before the other. It won’t really matter what happens in April, because once I sign my contract, that is done in March and what’s done is done."

[Guest]

@StickyBun said:

@MaroonBells said:

@MaroonBells said:

@supafreak84 said:

@MaroonBells said:

@supafreak84 said:
Lots if talk the Raiders could be on the outside looking in for a quarterback in the draft (much like us) and could make a strong push for Kirk Cousins in free agency. 

Going to be very interesting to see what Kirk's market actually is for a soon to be 36 year old coming off major injury. It's all going to come down to the most guaranteed money and most years, not the best situation for him as a player. I dont think that comes as a shock to anyone here. I still have to believe though the Vikings have a hard line in the sand they won't cross on an extension. Unfortunately at least a couple teams will probably cross that line, and I say let them. 

Curious why people continue to believe this considering the fact that the last time he was a free agent, he took the 3rd best offer on the table because it was a better situation. 

This is his last chance (likely) to cash in on a contract before retirement and he is the top rated quarterback on the market, even with the injury. I think he is going to have some options and a decision to make, but ultimately takes the deal that pays him the most and the longest. Teams I've heard in the mix; Minnesota, Denver, Oakland, New England, and Atlanta. We'll see what happens soon

Not the most necessarily, but the longest? Yeah. I think we should take him at his word. It's not about the money. It obviously wasn't in 2018 either. It's much more about guarantees, length of term and situation. 

I think if it's close, he signs with Minnesota. It's easily the best situation. Unless the Vikings have pissed him off somehow. There's something he said a couple weeks ago that makes me nervous in that regard. 

"I'm not going to try to sell myself, if you will. I kind of like to let people make their own decisions, because I do think the league needs quarterbacks, and if you're trying to talk yourself out of a quarterback, then I can't help you much."

"If you're trying to talk yourself out of a QB, then I can't help you." When he said this, I thought it was a strange comment to make. Who is he talking about if he's not talking about the Vikings? Could there be some frustration directed at the team in that comment? Was Kwesi openly playing with game-manager type scenarios for the future? Negotiating contracts is tough enough when both sides love each other. But if one side is pissed off, it's probably over. Even if it's just a perception. 

Now we're hearing rumors that Cousins and his family were indeed frustrated by the Vikings approach. I do think there's still a chance Cousins signs with Minnesota if they match the best offer and the Vikings employ a PR campaign using KOC, JJ and others to lobby on their behalf. But it's looking more and more bleak by the day. 

Who cares if he and his family 'are frustrated'? Seriously. He'll be 36 coming back from a major injury. Will the wife and kids be able to scrape enough money together to feed themselves until Kirk gets a new contact? And also: who knows if ANY of this rumor shit is even true. Its LIAR SEASON.

I really like Kirko and want him back. But if some fans think that KAM and KOC aren't being strategic here and its not part of their plan, then I guess I just have to laugh a bit. They are saying the right things but read the writing on the wall and you'll see that they've always been at least partially ok with not resigning Cousins. Preferred? Probably not. But planned for nonetheless.

There's still things to unfold yet. 

Right? I'm able to scrape together enough money to feed my family on .5% of what Kirk made last year. And I'd bet a well-done round steak with ketchup that my kids eat a helluva lot more than his do. Why should he get more money than me? 

[Guest]

@medaille said:

@MaroonBells said:

@pattersaur said:

@MaroonBells said:

@kmillard said:

@pattersaur said:

@MaroonBells said:

@pattersaur said:

@supafreak84 said:
Lol yup, this is a strong possibility if Kirk leaves. All I can do is laugh and shake my head. I hate it, but I'd also hate getting bent by Kirk on a multi year guaranteed deal where we are once again deferring money into future dead years. It's a shitty situation but it's the situation those in charge have painted themselves into 

Yep. Without Kirk we’re gonna need some kind of miracle to not be terrible. That’s why I think the Vikings will be desperate and ultimately successful in re-signing him. Not my preferred route but I’ll support whatever. I just hope we can fight our way outta this situation since our backs are kind of against the wall. Thankfully it’s the NFL and tides turn quickly. 

I don't think a team with JJ, Addison, Hockenson, two elite tackles and B-Flo on defense is ever going to be terrible. Even if you put the worst QB in the NFL on that team they would be modestly competitive.

The Vikings will sign Cousins because he gives them the best chance to win a Super Bowl in the next couple years, short of landing the next CJ Stroud, which seems pretty unlikely. The Vikings, with Cousins, are Super Bowl contenders. The Vikings without Cousins, using a bridge or a rookie, are probably pretty much the same thing they were this year weeks 9 thru 18. 

Every scrap of evidence from the past ~6 years says this is not true.

Playoff contenders, not Super Bowl contenders. Big FKIN difference.

What's the big FKIN difference? 

https://youtu.be/LluAI0f0N9s?si=sP6Ihsy4auO4mb-U
https://youtu.be/goAvP2I-twQ?si=kEe9YPQaiCoA-X1u

Well we've averaged 8.8 wins/season since Kirk got here and the Chiefs have 3 rings since then. They're a perennial super bowl contender. If you're saying the gap between us and the best of the best isn't wide, you my friend are delusional.
I fully think teams, including us, are capable of a magic season where we catch lightning in a bottle but always counting on that season being just over the horizon is a fool's errand. Let's build something real. That might be with Kirk or it might not I don't really care, but it has not been built in the past 6 years. At all.

Then I'm delusional. Because the gap isn't wide. 

But nor do I think it's wide for the Lions or Ravens either. Or the Packers, Cowboys, or Bills. I think if you replaced the 49ers with the Lions it would've been a similarly competitive game. Same if you replaced the Chiefs with the Ravens. Or the Bills. 

Watch those highlights. Vikings beat the 49ers without JJ. Chiefs game could've gone either way despite an obvious DPI miss in the end zone and the fact that JJ went down in the 2nd half. So yes, I think if Cousins doesn't go down in Green Bay the following week--a game the Vikings were dominating 24-7 at the time--this team walks into the playoffs.

What I think is delusional is the thought that the Super Bowl winner is far and away the best team in the NFL. I think if the Chiefs and 9ers played that game 10 more times, it breaks even. 5-5. Throw in the Lions, maybe the Chiefs win six. I think if you put Cousins back on the team the Vikings pull out a few too. 

The gap between the Vikings and the top tiers of teams was sizeable.  The Vikings didn't have a running game.  The Vikings have like one stud on defense and couldn't withstand hardly any injuries on defense.  If you assume Cousins stays healthy and a normal amount of injuries on defense, we're probably losing in the first or second rounds of the playoffs 9 out of 10 times.  If we restock our defense this year and decide to not have a one dimensional offense, can we become a team that has a better than 50% chance of making it to the championship game?  We need to have one hell of an offseason, but it's completely possible, but it's also possible that we lose Cousins and Hunter and are worse than last year.

I'm okay with being worse than last year.  This team has no chance to be the best team in the league next year, so anything spent to make it better at future expense is a waste.

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@StickyBun said:

@MaroonBells said:

@MaroonBells said:

@supafreak84 said:

@MaroonBells said:

@supafreak84 said:
Lots if talk the Raiders could be on the outside looking in for a quarterback in the draft (much like us) and could make a strong push for Kirk Cousins in free agency. 

Going to be very interesting to see what Kirk's market actually is for a soon to be 36 year old coming off major injury. It's all going to come down to the most guaranteed money and most years, not the best situation for him as a player. I dont think that comes as a shock to anyone here. I still have to believe though the Vikings have a hard line in the sand they won't cross on an extension. Unfortunately at least a couple teams will probably cross that line, and I say let them. 

Curious why people continue to believe this considering the fact that the last time he was a free agent, he took the 3rd best offer on the table because it was a better situation. 

This is his last chance (likely) to cash in on a contract before retirement and he is the top rated quarterback on the market, even with the injury. I think he is going to have some options and a decision to make, but ultimately takes the deal that pays him the most and the longest. Teams I've heard in the mix; Minnesota, Denver, Oakland, New England, and Atlanta. We'll see what happens soon

Not the most necessarily, but the longest? Yeah. I think we should take him at his word. It's not about the money. It obviously wasn't in 2018 either. It's much more about guarantees, length of term and situation. 

I think if it's close, he signs with Minnesota. It's easily the best situation. Unless the Vikings have pissed him off somehow. There's something he said a couple weeks ago that makes me nervous in that regard. 

"I'm not going to try to sell myself, if you will. I kind of like to let people make their own decisions, because I do think the league needs quarterbacks, and if you're trying to talk yourself out of a quarterback, then I can't help you much."

"If you're trying to talk yourself out of a QB, then I can't help you." When he said this, I thought it was a strange comment to make. Who is he talking about if he's not talking about the Vikings? Could there be some frustration directed at the team in that comment? Was Kwesi openly playing with game-manager type scenarios for the future? Negotiating contracts is tough enough when both sides love each other. But if one side is pissed off, it's probably over. Even if it's just a perception. 

Now we're hearing rumors that Cousins and his family were indeed frustrated by the Vikings approach. I do think there's still a chance Cousins signs with Minnesota if they match the best offer and the Vikings employ a PR campaign using KOC, JJ and others to lobby on their behalf. But it's looking more and more bleak by the day. 

Who cares if he and his family 'are frustrated'? Seriously. He'll be 36 coming back from a major injury. Will the wife and kids be able to scrape enough money together to feed themselves until Kirk gets a new contact? And also: who knows if ANY of this rumor shit is even true. Its LIAR SEASON.

I really like Kirko and want him back. But if some fans think that KAM and KOC aren't being strategic here and its not part of their plan, then I guess I just have to laugh a bit. They are saying the right things but read the writing on the wall and you'll see that they've always been at least partially ok with not resigning Cousins. Preferred? Probably not. But planned for nonetheless.

There's still things to unfold yet. 

Right? I'm able to scrape together enough money to feed my family on .5% of what Kirk made last year. And I'd bet a well-done round steak with ketchup that my kids eat a helluva lot more than his do. Why should he get more money than me? 

You know the point I'm making. Its fine if you don't agree with it. 

[Guest]

The team could easily compete for a championship next year. With a healthy Cousins and improving defense we had a very good shot this year. 

This team is way way better than a lot of fans realize. If they can get better on defense and keep Cousins, they are right in it. 

Resigning Cousins and drafting his replacement seems so stupidly obvious to me that it’s the right step. It’s as close as you get to a no brainer in the NFL. 

This idea that you will suck for X amount of time in order to magically be a championship team down the road is literally the stupidest thing I read nowadays. It’s pie in the sky, rainbow and unicorns, wish upon a star ridiculous. 

You’re either doing everything you can to win a title every single year, or you’re not worthy of a GM job. I get Kwesi having issues with the injury, but once in awhile, you have to have faith. If you draft that first round QB, you have a fall back plan. It doesn’t get better than that. Many team GM’s wish they were in Kwesi’s shoes as they risk their jobs rolling with the Sam Darnold’s of the wold. 

My faith in Kwesi is plummeting by the day.