Quote: @Havoc1649 said:
@ jargomcfargo said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
I’ll go a step further than Merrill Hoge after my review of Caleb Williams. Not only do I think he “isn’t special”, I think there’s a better than average chance he’ll bust. He’s going to have to work his tail off to be a viable NFL QB.
Why? His decision making is too slow. He will struggle in structure because of it and in the NFL you have to be able to play within structure to succeed. The ball has to be out on time, accurate, and anticipatory. There is very little sign of any of this in his game tape. The things he does to make uo for these deficiencies - run all over the place, is unlikely to work for long before defensive coordinators force him to beat them from the pocket. That will necessitate much faster processing than he has shown thus far.
His arm talent is exceptional so there is something to work with. As a prospect he isn’t terrible, but taking him in the top 10 is crazy risky. Can he get it together? Possibly, but it’s probably dependent on where he goes.
My current QB rankings:
1. Jayden Daniels
2. Bo Nix
3. JJM
4. Drake Maye
5. Michael Penix
6. Caleb Williams
Which of these QB's is the fastest processer of the bunch? What stands out to me as a special trait for an NFL QB in addition to all else is rapid processing of the defense after the ball is snapped. Knows what he's looking for. Bang bang bang, one read to the next and getting the ball out when he sees it. That is what CJ Stroud has in addition to his other attributes.
Sometimes when a college QB is lauded for his ability to make plays off script it is because he can't process fast enough to deliver the ball on schedule.
Just wondering what your opinion is since you already see this with Williams?
Fastest processor in my opinion is Bo Nix and it’s not close. I’ve evaluated QB’s for fun for the past 20 years and I struggle to find anyone to compare him to at the college level. Aaron Rodgers in his NFL prime maybe? I don’t know if anyone has sussed it out yet, but Bo Nix will be a top 3 processor in the NFL the moment he’s drafted in my opinion. I’m not sure if there’s any current NFL QB as fast as him. Honestly, I’d love to see his metrics/analytics as they have to out of this world.
I like Daniels extra dimension on the move, but from a pure QB ceiling standpoint, there’s a good chance Nix is the best of the bunch and most likely to be a true generational player. The kid is a freak.
I’m genuinely curious as to what leads you to the idea that Nix will be a top 3 processor in the NFL the second he’s drafted? I mean no one can deny that his offense at Oregon was a simplified 1-read offense…I’m just struggling to see how that translates to a very complex NFL offense.
I mean, if you have this nailed and literally no front office person or scout in the NFL can figure it out…that’s WILD…but good on ya. I mean a rookie that can process an NFL offense and read defenses faster than all but maybe 2 QBs would be a Manning-Level generational talent worthy of the first overall pick. I mean that’s absolute can’t miss, sure-fire Hall of Famer kind of praise.
Quote: @CFIAvike said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
@ jargomcfargo said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
I’ll go a step further than Merrill Hoge after my review of Caleb Williams. Not only do I think he “isn’t special”, I think there’s a better than average chance he’ll bust. He’s going to have to work his tail off to be a viable NFL QB.
Why? His decision making is too slow. He will struggle in structure because of it and in the NFL you have to be able to play within structure to succeed. The ball has to be out on time, accurate, and anticipatory. There is very little sign of any of this in his game tape. The things he does to make uo for these deficiencies - run all over the place, is unlikely to work for long before defensive coordinators force him to beat them from the pocket. That will necessitate much faster processing than he has shown thus far.
His arm talent is exceptional so there is something to work with. As a prospect he isn’t terrible, but taking him in the top 10 is crazy risky. Can he get it together? Possibly, but it’s probably dependent on where he goes.
My current QB rankings:
1. Jayden Daniels
2. Bo Nix
3. JJM
4. Drake Maye
5. Michael Penix
6. Caleb Williams
Which of these QB's is the fastest processer of the bunch? What stands out to me as a special trait for an NFL QB in addition to all else is rapid processing of the defense after the ball is snapped. Knows what he's looking for. Bang bang bang, one read to the next and getting the ball out when he sees it. That is what CJ Stroud has in addition to his other attributes.
Sometimes when a college QB is lauded for his ability to make plays off script it is because he can't process fast enough to deliver the ball on schedule.
Just wondering what your opinion is since you already see this with Williams?
Fastest processor in my opinion is Bo Nix and it’s not close. I’ve evaluated QB’s for fun for the past 20 years and I struggle to find anyone to compare him to at the college level. Aaron Rodgers in his NFL prime maybe? I don’t know if anyone has sussed it out yet, but Bo Nix will be a top 3 processor in the NFL the moment he’s drafted in my opinion. I’m not sure if there’s any current NFL QB as fast as him. Honestly, I’d love to see his metrics/analytics as they have to out of this world.
I like Daniels extra dimension on the move, but from a pure QB ceiling standpoint, there’s a good chance Nix is the best of the bunch and most likely to be a true generational player. The kid is a freak.
I’m genuinely curious as to what leads you to the idea that Nix will be a top 3 processor in the NFL the second he’s drafted? I mean no one can deny that his offense at Oregon was a simplified 1-read offense…I’m just struggling to see how that translates to a very complex NFL offense.
I mean, if you have this nailed and literally no front office person or scout in the NFL can figure it out…that’s WILD…but good on ya. I mean a rookie that can process an NFL offense and read defenses faster than all but maybe 2 QBs would be a Manning-Level generational talent worthy of the first overall pick. I mean that’s absolute can’t miss, sure-fire Hall of Famer kind of praise.
not defending the notion of Nix's reading abilities, but if the Oregon offense was, by your evaluation, a simple 1 read offense, then why were they able to succeed more often than not? Shouldnt even shitty defensive coaches and players be able to disguise the coverages and schemes to trick the QB into making the wrong decisions pre snap? I have my doubts that it was really that simple and tend to think that it was likely more to do with Nix's ability to read pre snap and understand what the D was doing and make the correct look at the snap allowing him to get the ball out quickly looking like it was pre determined by the play call. At that level I dont think its as simple as look at one guy, if hes not open then take off and run, unless you understand who that first guy is going to be based on your ability to process what the D is doing at the time of the snap.
Quote: @CFIAvike said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
@ jargomcfargo said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
I’ll go a step further than Merrill Hoge after my review of Caleb Williams. Not only do I think he “isn’t special”, I think there’s a better than average chance he’ll bust. He’s going to have to work his tail off to be a viable NFL QB.
Why? His decision making is too slow. He will struggle in structure because of it and in the NFL you have to be able to play within structure to succeed. The ball has to be out on time, accurate, and anticipatory. There is very little sign of any of this in his game tape. The things he does to make uo for these deficiencies - run all over the place, is unlikely to work for long before defensive coordinators force him to beat them from the pocket. That will necessitate much faster processing than he has shown thus far.
His arm talent is exceptional so there is something to work with. As a prospect he isn’t terrible, but taking him in the top 10 is crazy risky. Can he get it together? Possibly, but it’s probably dependent on where he goes.
My current QB rankings:
1. Jayden Daniels
2. Bo Nix
3. JJM
4. Drake Maye
5. Michael Penix
6. Caleb Williams
Which of these QB's is the fastest processer of the bunch? What stands out to me as a special trait for an NFL QB in addition to all else is rapid processing of the defense after the ball is snapped. Knows what he's looking for. Bang bang bang, one read to the next and getting the ball out when he sees it. That is what CJ Stroud has in addition to his other attributes.
Sometimes when a college QB is lauded for his ability to make plays off script it is because he can't process fast enough to deliver the ball on schedule.
Just wondering what your opinion is since you already see this with Williams?
Fastest processor in my opinion is Bo Nix and it’s not close. I’ve evaluated QB’s for fun for the past 20 years and I struggle to find anyone to compare him to at the college level. Aaron Rodgers in his NFL prime maybe? I don’t know if anyone has sussed it out yet, but Bo Nix will be a top 3 processor in the NFL the moment he’s drafted in my opinion. I’m not sure if there’s any current NFL QB as fast as him. Honestly, I’d love to see his metrics/analytics as they have to out of this world.
I like Daniels extra dimension on the move, but from a pure QB ceiling standpoint, there’s a good chance Nix is the best of the bunch and most likely to be a true generational player. The kid is a freak.
I’m genuinely curious as to what leads you to the idea that Nix will be a top 3 processor in the NFL the second he’s drafted? I mean no one can deny that his offense at Oregon was a simplified 1-read offense…I’m just struggling to see how that translates to a very complex NFL offense.
I mean, if you have this nailed and literally no front office person or scout in the NFL can figure it out…that’s WILD…but good on ya. I mean a rookie that can process an NFL offense and read defenses faster than all but maybe 2 QBs would be a Manning-Level generational talent worthy of the first overall pick. I mean that’s absolute can’t miss, sure-fire Hall of Famer kind of praise.
The first mistake draft talking heads and evaluators make is thinking it’s a one read offense. It isn’t. They get that impression because Nix almost always knows where he's going with it pre-snap based on what the defense is doing.
Before he ever takes the snap, he’s chosen his progressions and it appears to me he decides primarily based on highest liklihood of success (there are positives and negatives to this). Bo Nix has complete autonomy in that offense and can essentially do whatever he wants based on what he is seeing. If he wants to change it completely, he can. If he wants to run progressions different, he can. If he wants to adjust a player or two he can. There doesn’t appear to be any limitations put on him.
If it was indeed a one read offense, it would be much easier to stop. NFL QB’s don’t typically have that kind of autonomy, but they are expected to do a lot of pre-snap reading of the defense and unlike some college programs who never have the QB do some of the common NFL things, he’s been doing it every play for a couple of years now. He’s not always right in his assesment, but he’s on the vast majority of the time.
This is one of the reasons he’s so fast. It will be more difficult at the next level, but it shows he can do it and has consistently.
I’ll dig around. I expect someone has actually timed how quick these guys are. There are a lot of analytics guys out there who chart everything, I just need to find it. As for the more advanced analytics that I suspect are elite, I don’t have access to them. I’m not into that stuff (other than draft time) enough to pay for PFF premium or something similar. I’ll post simething on processing speed if I can find it.
Found the numbers on how fast these guys are and comparison to current NFL QB’s
Michael Penix: 2.68 compares to Stafford 2.68
Drake Maye: 2.79 compares to Justin Herbert 2.80
Caleb Williams: 3.21 compares to Justin Fields 3.23 - Williams would be second slowest in NFL
Spencer Rattler: 2.82 compares to Sam Howell 2.82
Joe Milton: 2.64 compares to Stafford 2.68
JJM: 2.84 compares to Geno Smith 2.84
Jayden Daniels: 2.91 compares to Zach Wilson 2.91
Bo Nix: 2.44 compares to Tua 2.36 - Would be 2nd fastest time in the NFL
Quote: @Havoc1649 said:
Found the numbers on how fast these guys are and comparison to current NFL QB’s
Michael Penix: 2.68 compares to Stafford 2.68
Drake Maye: 2.79 compares to Justin Herbert 2.80
Caleb Williams: 3.21 compares to Justin Fields 3.23- Williams would be second slowest in NFL
Spencer Rattler: 2.82 compares to Sam Howell 2.82
Joe Milton: 2.64 compares to Stafford 2.68
JJM: 2.84 compares to Geno Smith 2.84
Jayden Daniels: 2.91 compares to Zach Wilson 2.91
Bo Nix: 2.44 compares to Tua 2.36- Would be 2nd fastest time in the NFL
What are these numbers a measurement of?
Here's another throw of the dart against the wall. A very expensive move that would give me some pause to say the least lol!
Vikings trade picks 11, 2025 first round pick and 2026 first round pick to the Patriots for pick 3The Vikings need to make a move for a quarterback and Maye could easily be at the top of their board with his ability to attack down the field and create outside of structure. This would be a home run, yet expensive move for the Vikings.
StrengthsMaye is a talented passer with the frame of a prototypical quarterback and it shows in many facets of his game.
His footwork is crisp, especially in the quick game. Knows how to get his feet and hips setup and flipped with speed and efficiency. His transition to the NFL will be significantly easier because of his success and consistency in quick game concepts.
Maye throws a beautiful football. He can drive the ball to all levels of the field with accuracy and power. Throws a javelin deep ball and gives his receivers a consistent chance to win down the field.
Maye takes care of the football having only threw 16 interceptions and 26 turnover-worthy plays to 80 big-time throws.
WeaknessMaye has a tendency to bail the pocket early. His internal clock is off and he defaults way too often to bailing the pocket instead of staying patient and climbing the pocket. He misses some easy throws and big plays this way. The good news is that he showed improvement in that department as the season went on.
His mechanics are really good in the quick game but his processing can slow him down. Maye will see it downfield but his legs won’t be set and he has to hitch one extra time, causing him to be late on throws.
Maye tends to try and run the football a little too much. While he can take advantage of the defense in the running game, he tries to make plays he’s not quite capable of.
OverviewI think Maye is easily a first-round quarterback and should go in the top five. However, there is this idea that he’s a slam dunk in the top five and that’s just not the case. He needs some work to get there but the tools and raw ability is both impressive and something worth developing.
https://vikingswire.usatoday.com/lists/vikings-2024-nfl-draft-scouting-report-north-carolina-qb-drake-maye/
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
Here's another throw of the dart against the wall. A very expensive move that would give me some pause to say the least lol!
Vikings trade picks 11, 2025 first round pick and 2026 first round pick to the Patriots for pick 3The Vikings need to make a move for a quarterback and Maye could easily be at the top of their board with his ability to attack down the field and create outside of structure. This would be a home run, yet expensive move for the Vikings.
StrengthsMaye is a talented passer with the frame of a prototypical quarterback and it shows in many facets of his game.
His footwork is crisp, especially in the quick game. Knows how to get his feet and hips setup and flipped with speed and efficiency. His transition to the NFL will be significantly easier because of his success and consistency in quick game concepts.
Maye throws a beautiful football. He can drive the ball to all levels of the field with accuracy and power. Throws a javelin deep ball and gives his receivers a consistent chance to win down the field.
Maye takes care of the football having only threw 16 interceptions and 26 turnover-worthy plays to 80 big-time throws.
WeaknessMaye has a tendency to bail the pocket early. His internal clock is off and he defaults way too often to bailing the pocket instead of staying patient and climbing the pocket. He misses some easy throws and big plays this way. The good news is that he showed improvement in that department as the season went on.
His mechanics are really good in the quick game but his processing can slow him down. Maye will see it downfield but his legs won’t be set and he has to hitch one extra time, causing him to be late on throws.
Maye tends to try and run the football a little too much. While he can take advantage of the defense in the running game, he tries to make plays he’s not quite capable of.
OverviewI think Maye is easily a first-round quarterback and should go in the top five. However, there is this idea that he’s a slam dunk in the top five and that’s just not the case. He needs some work to get there but the tools and raw ability is both impressive and something worth developing.
https://vikingswire.usatoday.com/lists/vikings-2024-nfl-draft-scouting-report-north-carolina-qb-drake-maye/
3 first round picks to move up 8 spots it way too much IMO. I'm thinking more like our 11 pick, 2025 1st round pick and maybe a 2025 4th rounder?
Quote: @minny65 said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Here's another throw of the dart against the wall. A very expensive move that would give me some pause to say the least lol!
Vikings trade picks 11, 2025 first round pick and 2026 first round pick to the Patriots for pick 3The Vikings need to make a move for a quarterback and Maye could easily be at the top of their board with his ability to attack down the field and create outside of structure. This would be a home run, yet expensive move for the Vikings.
StrengthsMaye is a talented passer with the frame of a prototypical quarterback and it shows in many facets of his game.
His footwork is crisp, especially in the quick game. Knows how to get his feet and hips setup and flipped with speed and efficiency. His transition to the NFL will be significantly easier because of his success and consistency in quick game concepts.
Maye throws a beautiful football. He can drive the ball to all levels of the field with accuracy and power. Throws a javelin deep ball and gives his receivers a consistent chance to win down the field.
Maye takes care of the football having only threw 16 interceptions and 26 turnover-worthy plays to 80 big-time throws.
WeaknessMaye has a tendency to bail the pocket early. His internal clock is off and he defaults way too often to bailing the pocket instead of staying patient and climbing the pocket. He misses some easy throws and big plays this way. The good news is that he showed improvement in that department as the season went on.
His mechanics are really good in the quick game but his processing can slow him down. Maye will see it downfield but his legs won’t be set and he has to hitch one extra time, causing him to be late on throws.
Maye tends to try and run the football a little too much. While he can take advantage of the defense in the running game, he tries to make plays he’s not quite capable of.
OverviewI think Maye is easily a first-round quarterback and should go in the top five. However, there is this idea that he’s a slam dunk in the top five and that’s just not the case. He needs some work to get there but the tools and raw ability is both impressive and something worth developing.
https://vikingswire.usatoday.com/lists/vikings-2024-nfl-draft-scouting-report-north-carolina-qb-drake-maye/
3 first round picks to move up 8 spots it way too much IMO. I'm thinking more like our 11 pick, 2025 1st round pick and maybe a 2025 4th rounder?
I agree it is too much, unless you are convinced he is going to be a stud then just do it. I can live without a few years of Cines and Hughes just fine. Personally I think two firsts a second and possibly a 3rd may be enough.
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