Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ Skodin said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
The Vikings are in a MUCH better cap position this off-season and moving forward. The one gimme is bonus restructuring Hockenson. His contract was written in a way where it would make less sense not to. Gets you to about $32M in space (this includes all of Kirk, Hunter and Davenport's dead money). We'll see what happens with Harrison Smith. He won't be back at his $19M cap number. Question is whether he takes a pay-cut or ends up released. Puts the cap number between $37 - 43M. Doubt they touch Murphy's deal unless they straight up release him (don't think they will).
With the $37-43 (we'll call it $40M) they have really 2 paths.
1. Resign Kirk, Danielle (or comparable defensive player) and 1-2 role players
2. Go the rookie QB route. If they go this way they honestly have enough money to do whatever they like
Door #2 please. Rookie QB, extend Danielle and add 3 trench pieces (2 by raiding the Dolphins): - Christian Wilkins DT, leading run DL with strong pass rushing capabilities and a history with Flores (Backup options: DJ Reader, Javon Kinlaw)
- Conner Williams C, major upgrade over Bradberry (Backup options: Cushenberry)
- Josh Uche DE, pass rusher (Backup: Campbell, Van Ginkle)
I would also give Davenport (reduced one year deal), Powell, and Risner (3yr/$18million). Upgraded IOL, significantly upgraded front 7 (Uche+Wilkins+Phillips with Hunter-Pace-???-Davenport) that can get pressure without constant blitzing.
A rookie QB with allegedly the right staff and a strong roster (best WR and TE grouping in the league?) and a borderline top 10 defense can get you to the wild card round, potentially beyond.
Unless you draft the next CJ Stroud, you're not making the playoffs with a rookie QB. Williams, Daniels, Maye should all be able to start week 1 and might have the goods to get it done, but there's absolutely no way any of the second tier guys should start unless in case of emergency. Let alone counting on any of them to get us to the "wild card or beyond".
15 times, so not unheard of. Stroud this year, but last year was Brock Purdy, if you build a quality team, you don't need a veteran pro bowler to get to the playoffs. Here's a few more examples.
| Team | Year | Record | Rating | | Russell Wilson | Seahawks | 2012 | 1-1 | 102.4 | | Robert Griffin III | Redskins | 2012 | 0-1 | 77.5 | | Andrew Luck | Colts | 2012 | 0-1 | 59.8 | | Andy Dalton | Bengals | 2011 | 0-1 | 51.4 | | Mark Sanchez | Jets | 2009 | 2-1 | 92.7 | | Joe Flacco | Ravens | 2008 | 2-1 | 50.8 | | Matt Ryan | Falcons | 2008 | 0-1 | 72.8 | | Ben Roethlisberger | Steelers | 2004 | 1-1 | 61.3 | | Jim Everett | Rams | 1986 | 0-1 | 54.2 | | Dieter Brock | Rams | 1985 | 1-1 | 24.0 | | Bernie Kosar | Browns | 1985 | 0-1 | 56.0 | | Dan Marino | Dolphins | 1983 | 0-1 | 77.6 | |
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15 QBs out of every QB drafted in the last 40 years? Unheard of no. Extremely unlikely…yes.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ Knucklehead said:
@ Skodin said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
The Vikings are in a MUCH better cap position this off-season and moving forward. The one gimme is bonus restructuring Hockenson. His contract was written in a way where it would make less sense not to. Gets you to about $32M in space (this includes all of Kirk, Hunter and Davenport's dead money). We'll see what happens with Harrison Smith. He won't be back at his $19M cap number. Question is whether he takes a pay-cut or ends up released. Puts the cap number between $37 - 43M. Doubt they touch Murphy's deal unless they straight up release him (don't think they will).
With the $37-43 (we'll call it $40M) they have really 2 paths.
1. Resign Kirk, Danielle (or comparable defensive player) and 1-2 role players
2. Go the rookie QB route. If they go this way they honestly have enough money to do whatever they like
Door #2 please. Rookie QB, extend Danielle and add 3 trench pieces (2 by raiding the Dolphins): - Christian Wilkins DT, leading run DL with strong pass rushing capabilities and a history with Flores (Backup options: DJ Reader, Javon Kinlaw)
- Conner Williams C, major upgrade over Bradberry (Backup options: Cushenberry)
- Josh Uche DE, pass rusher (Backup: Campbell, Van Ginkle)
I would also give Davenport (reduced one year deal), Powell, and Risner (3yr/$18million). Upgraded IOL, significantly upgraded front 7 (Uche+Wilkins+Phillips with Hunter-Pace-???-Davenport) that can get pressure without constant blitzing.
A rookie QB with allegedly the right staff and a strong roster (best WR and TE grouping in the league?) and a borderline top 10 defense can get you to the wild card round, potentially beyond.
Davenport isn't coming back. The team wanted him to ramp up his rehabilitation in order to get back on the field toward the end of the season. He declined & said that he wanted to focus on free agency.
Is that from a reliable source?
That said, there is no way I would re-sign Davenport. I could see the allure at the time, but he is a big fail as a Viking.
He's not under contract and I can't imagine the Vikings, or anyone else for that matter, giving him much more than 1 year at vet min. Chalk that one up as a failure, absorb the dead money and move on.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ Knucklehead said:
@ Skodin said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
The Vikings are in a MUCH better cap position this off-season and moving forward. The one gimme is bonus restructuring Hockenson. His contract was written in a way where it would make less sense not to. Gets you to about $32M in space (this includes all of Kirk, Hunter and Davenport's dead money). We'll see what happens with Harrison Smith. He won't be back at his $19M cap number. Question is whether he takes a pay-cut or ends up released. Puts the cap number between $37 - 43M. Doubt they touch Murphy's deal unless they straight up release him (don't think they will).
With the $37-43 (we'll call it $40M) they have really 2 paths.
1. Resign Kirk, Danielle (or comparable defensive player) and 1-2 role players
2. Go the rookie QB route. If they go this way they honestly have enough money to do whatever they like
Door #2 please. Rookie QB, extend Danielle and add 3 trench pieces (2 by raiding the Dolphins): - Christian Wilkins DT, leading run DL with strong pass rushing capabilities and a history with Flores (Backup options: DJ Reader, Javon Kinlaw)
- Conner Williams C, major upgrade over Bradberry (Backup options: Cushenberry)
- Josh Uche DE, pass rusher (Backup: Campbell, Van Ginkle)
I would also give Davenport (reduced one year deal), Powell, and Risner (3yr/$18million). Upgraded IOL, significantly upgraded front 7 (Uche+Wilkins+Phillips with Hunter-Pace-???-Davenport) that can get pressure without constant blitzing.
A rookie QB with allegedly the right staff and a strong roster (best WR and TE grouping in the league?) and a borderline top 10 defense can get you to the wild card round, potentially beyond.
Davenport isn't coming back. The team wanted him to ramp up his rehabilitation in order to get back on the field toward the end of the season. He declined & said that he wanted to focus on free agency.
Is that from a reliable source?
That said, there is no way I would re-sign Davenport. I could see the allure at the time, but he is a big fail as a Viking.
Don't remember where I read/heard it. Most likely the Purple Daily podcast.
Quote: @CFIAvike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ Skodin said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
The Vikings are in a MUCH better cap position this off-season and moving forward. The one gimme is bonus restructuring Hockenson. His contract was written in a way where it would make less sense not to. Gets you to about $32M in space (this includes all of Kirk, Hunter and Davenport's dead money). We'll see what happens with Harrison Smith. He won't be back at his $19M cap number. Question is whether he takes a pay-cut or ends up released. Puts the cap number between $37 - 43M. Doubt they touch Murphy's deal unless they straight up release him (don't think they will).
With the $37-43 (we'll call it $40M) they have really 2 paths.
1. Resign Kirk, Danielle (or comparable defensive player) and 1-2 role players
2. Go the rookie QB route. If they go this way they honestly have enough money to do whatever they like
Door #2 please. Rookie QB, extend Danielle and add 3 trench pieces (2 by raiding the Dolphins): - Christian Wilkins DT, leading run DL with strong pass rushing capabilities and a history with Flores (Backup options: DJ Reader, Javon Kinlaw)
- Conner Williams C, major upgrade over Bradberry (Backup options: Cushenberry)
- Josh Uche DE, pass rusher (Backup: Campbell, Van Ginkle)
I would also give Davenport (reduced one year deal), Powell, and Risner (3yr/$18million). Upgraded IOL, significantly upgraded front 7 (Uche+Wilkins+Phillips with Hunter-Pace-???-Davenport) that can get pressure without constant blitzing.
A rookie QB with allegedly the right staff and a strong roster (best WR and TE grouping in the league?) and a borderline top 10 defense can get you to the wild card round, potentially beyond.
Unless you draft the next CJ Stroud, you're not making the playoffs with a rookie QB. Williams, Daniels, Maye should all be able to start week 1 and might have the goods to get it done, but there's absolutely no way any of the second tier guys should start unless in case of emergency. Let alone counting on any of them to get us to the "wild card or beyond".
15 times, so not unheard of. Stroud this year, but last year was Brock Purdy, if you build a quality team, you don't need a veteran pro bowler to get to the playoffs. Here's a few more examples.
| Team | Year | Record | Rating | | Russell Wilson | Seahawks | 2012 | 1-1 | 102.4 | | Robert Griffin III | Redskins | 2012 | 0-1 | 77.5 | | Andrew Luck | Colts | 2012 | 0-1 | 59.8 | | Andy Dalton | Bengals | 2011 | 0-1 | 51.4 | | Mark Sanchez | Jets | 2009 | 2-1 | 92.7 | | Joe Flacco | Ravens | 2008 | 2-1 | 50.8 | | Matt Ryan | Falcons | 2008 | 0-1 | 72.8 | | Ben Roethlisberger | Steelers | 2004 | 1-1 | 61.3 | | Jim Everett | Rams | 1986 | 0-1 | 54.2 | | Dieter Brock | Rams | 1985 | 1-1 | 24.0 | | Bernie Kosar | Browns | 1985 | 0-1 | 56.0 | | Dan Marino | Dolphins | 1983 | 0-1 | 77.6 | |
|
15 QBs out of every QB drafted in the last 40 years? Unheard of no. Extremely unlikely…yes.
Really depends on the rookie, but also the team around them, typically quality teams aren't looking to start a rookie QB because they typically aren't drafting high enough to get a decent prospect that doesn't need seasoning.
Quote: @Skodin said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
The Vikings are in a MUCH better cap position this off-season and moving forward. The one gimme is bonus restructuring Hockenson. His contract was written in a way where it would make less sense not to. Gets you to about $32M in space (this includes all of Kirk, Hunter and Davenport's dead money). We'll see what happens with Harrison Smith. He won't be back at his $19M cap number. Question is whether he takes a pay-cut or ends up released. Puts the cap number between $37 - 43M. Doubt they touch Murphy's deal unless they straight up release him (don't think they will).
With the $37-43 (we'll call it $40M) they have really 2 paths.
1. Resign Kirk, Danielle (or comparable defensive player) and 1-2 role players
2. Go the rookie QB route. If they go this way they honestly have enough money to do whatever they like
Door #2 please. Rookie QB, extend Danielle and add 3 trench pieces (2 by raiding the Dolphins): - Christian Wilkins DT, leading run DL with strong pass rushing capabilities and a history with Flores (Backup options: DJ Reader, Javon Kinlaw)
- Conner Williams C, major upgrade over Bradberry (Backup options: Cushenberry)
- Josh Uche DE, pass rusher (Backup: Campbell, Van Ginkle)
I would also give Davenport (reduced one year deal), Powell, and Risner (3yr/$18million). Upgraded IOL, significantly upgraded front 7 (Uche+Wilkins+Phillips with Hunter-Pace-???-Davenport) that can get pressure without constant blitzing.
A rookie QB with allegedly the right staff and a strong roster (best WR and TE grouping in the league?) and a borderline top 10 defense can get you to the wild card round, potentially beyond.
so…. are we guaranteed to get all these guys and a stud rookie QB if Kirk walks. You make it seem like a forgone conclusion that all these top free agents are going to sign reasonable deals to come play for a team that’s likely going nowhere without a decent QB.
Sounds like JJ wants to be the highest paid non-QB in the league, which will put him around $38M/year.
Can't say I blame him, he's worth it. But man. I know the cap is malleable but giving him that much almost necessitates a QB on a rookie deal, doesn't it? Even if JJ's cap hit this season is low after an extension (fingers crossed), Kirk's dead money of almost $30M would still be on the books if we don't bring him back. So that wipes out almost any savings we'd gain in 2024. Or we re-sign Kirk for a couple years and spread out his money, which also wipes out any possibly savings from extending JJ. Not saying it's either/or because I'm sure they could find a way, but all this money we have might dry up fast if the plan is to run it back with JJ and Kirk.
Quote: @pattersaur said:
Sounds like JJ wants to be the highest paid non-QB in the league, which will put him around $38M/year.
Can't say I blame him, he's worth it. But man. I know the cap is malleable but giving him that much almost necessitates a QB on a rookie deal, doesn't it? Even if JJ's cap hit this season is low after an extension (fingers crossed), Kirk's dead money of almost $30M would still be on the books if we don't bring him back. So that wipes out almost any savings we'd gain in 2024. Or we re-sign Kirk for a couple years and spread out his money, which also wipes out any possibly savings from extending JJ. Not saying it's either/or because I'm sure they could find a way, but all this money we have might dry up fast if the plan is to run it back with JJ and Kirk.
You'd write Jefferson's contract so that it doesn't accelerate until Kirk is gone. Tyreek Hill's contract is probably the closest we're going to come to a comp. His AAV was $30M. His cap hit the 1st year was $6M, the 2nd year was $12M, the 3rd year is $31M. That's the year you'd want to be free of Cousins' money.
Quote: @CFIAvike said:
@ Skodin said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
The Vikings are in a MUCH better cap position this off-season and moving forward. The one gimme is bonus restructuring Hockenson. His contract was written in a way where it would make less sense not to. Gets you to about $32M in space (this includes all of Kirk, Hunter and Davenport's dead money). We'll see what happens with Harrison Smith. He won't be back at his $19M cap number. Question is whether he takes a pay-cut or ends up released. Puts the cap number between $37 - 43M. Doubt they touch Murphy's deal unless they straight up release him (don't think they will).
With the $37-43 (we'll call it $40M) they have really 2 paths.
1. Resign Kirk, Danielle (or comparable defensive player) and 1-2 role players
2. Go the rookie QB route. If they go this way they honestly have enough money to do whatever they like
Door #2 please. Rookie QB, extend Danielle and add 3 trench pieces (2 by raiding the Dolphins): - Christian Wilkins DT, leading run DL with strong pass rushing capabilities and a history with Flores (Backup options: DJ Reader, Javon Kinlaw)
- Conner Williams C, major upgrade over Bradberry (Backup options: Cushenberry)
- Josh Uche DE, pass rusher (Backup: Campbell, Van Ginkle)
I would also give Davenport (reduced one year deal), Powell, and Risner (3yr/$18million). Upgraded IOL, significantly upgraded front 7 (Uche+Wilkins+Phillips with Hunter-Pace-???-Davenport) that can get pressure without constant blitzing.
A rookie QB with allegedly the right staff and a strong roster (best WR and TE grouping in the league?) and a borderline top 10 defense can get you to the wild card round, potentially beyond.
so…. are we guaranteed to get all these guys and a stud rookie QB if Kirk walks. You make it seem like a forgone conclusion that all these top free agents are going to sign reasonable deals to come play for a team that’s likely going nowhere without a decent QB.
You act like the cupboard is bare. PLUS Who did we have when we attracted Linval, Captain, Johnson to the 2014 team? MATT CASSELL and a ROOKIE
By not paying Kook we can give these guys good contracts based on their level. Wilkins won't cost as much as Reader. Uche won't be as expensive as a Leonard Williams.
FAs aren't coming to Minnesota because of Kirk Cousins. He can be a part of the picture but it's about fit, money, and upside.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ CFIAvike said:
@ Skodin said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
The Vikings are in a MUCH better cap position this off-season and moving forward. The one gimme is bonus restructuring Hockenson. His contract was written in a way where it would make less sense not to. Gets you to about $32M in space (this includes all of Kirk, Hunter and Davenport's dead money). We'll see what happens with Harrison Smith. He won't be back at his $19M cap number. Question is whether he takes a pay-cut or ends up released. Puts the cap number between $37 - 43M. Doubt they touch Murphy's deal unless they straight up release him (don't think they will).
With the $37-43 (we'll call it $40M) they have really 2 paths.
1. Resign Kirk, Danielle (or comparable defensive player) and 1-2 role players
2. Go the rookie QB route. If they go this way they honestly have enough money to do whatever they like
Door #2 please. Rookie QB, extend Danielle and add 3 trench pieces (2 by raiding the Dolphins): - Christian Wilkins DT, leading run DL with strong pass rushing capabilities and a history with Flores (Backup options: DJ Reader, Javon Kinlaw)
- Conner Williams C, major upgrade over Bradberry (Backup options: Cushenberry)
- Josh Uche DE, pass rusher (Backup: Campbell, Van Ginkle)
I would also give Davenport (reduced one year deal), Powell, and Risner (3yr/$18million). Upgraded IOL, significantly upgraded front 7 (Uche+Wilkins+Phillips with Hunter-Pace-???-Davenport) that can get pressure without constant blitzing.
A rookie QB with allegedly the right staff and a strong roster (best WR and TE grouping in the league?) and a borderline top 10 defense can get you to the wild card round, potentially beyond.
Unless you draft the next CJ Stroud, you're not making the playoffs with a rookie QB. Williams, Daniels, Maye should all be able to start week 1 and might have the goods to get it done, but there's absolutely no way any of the second tier guys should start unless in case of emergency. Let alone counting on any of them to get us to the "wild card or beyond".
15 times, so not unheard of. Stroud this year, but last year was Brock Purdy, if you build a quality team, you don't need a veteran pro bowler to get to the playoffs. Here's a few more examples.
| Team | Year | Record | Rating | | Russell Wilson | Seahawks | 2012 | 1-1 | 102.4 | | Robert Griffin III | Redskins | 2012 | 0-1 | 77.5 | | Andrew Luck | Colts | 2012 | 0-1 | 59.8 | | Andy Dalton | Bengals | 2011 | 0-1 | 51.4 | | Mark Sanchez | Jets | 2009 | 2-1 | 92.7 | | Joe Flacco | Ravens | 2008 | 2-1 | 50.8 | | Matt Ryan | Falcons | 2008 | 0-1 | 72.8 | | Ben Roethlisberger | Steelers | 2004 | 1-1 | 61.3 | | Jim Everett | Rams | 1986 | 0-1 | 54.2 | | Dieter Brock | Rams | 1985 | 1-1 | 24.0 | | Bernie Kosar | Browns | 1985 | 0-1 | 56.0 | | Dan Marino | Dolphins | 1983 | 0-1 | 77.6 | |
|
15 QBs out of every QB drafted in the last 40 years? Unheard of no. Extremely unlikely…yes.
Really depends on the rookie, but also the team around them, typically quality teams aren't looking to start a rookie QB because they typically aren't drafting high enough to get a decent prospect that doesn't need seasoning.
EXACTLY. Taking history on rookie QBs is a lazy exercise. For this team, it's foolish to project on what has been done by early round QBs.
How many 1st round rookies stepped into a team with a top set of offensive weapons and a good defense? Very rare and when they do? They can make a playoff run.
Big Ben took a team that had a misstep in 2003 to the AFC Championship game
Falcons were 4-12 before Matt Ryan joined them
Sanchez and Flacco joined teams with strong defense and solid offenses. Same for Wilson.
This defense with a couple of quality FA pick ups (DE, DT, LB) can be a top 10 defense. The offense has Jets, JA, TJ, and a pair of very good tackles. There is no reason to compare history, it's lazy and not applicable.
Draft your QB this year, either go up and get him, stay, or even move back if you like JJ, Penix, etc. but get him.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ pattersaur said:
Sounds like JJ wants to be the highest paid non-QB in the league, which will put him around $38M/year.
Can't say I blame him, he's worth it. But man. I know the cap is malleable but giving him that much almost necessitates a QB on a rookie deal, doesn't it? Even if JJ's cap hit this season is low after an extension (fingers crossed), Kirk's dead money of almost $30M would still be on the books if we don't bring him back. So that wipes out almost any savings we'd gain in 2024. Or we re-sign Kirk for a couple years and spread out his money, which also wipes out any possibly savings from extending JJ. Not saying it's either/or because I'm sure they could find a way, but all this money we have might dry up fast if the plan is to run it back with JJ and Kirk.
You'd write Jefferson's contract so that it doesn't accelerate until Kirk is gone. Tyreek Hill's contract is probably the closest we're going to come to a comp. His AAV was $30M. His cap hit the 1st year was $6M, the 2nd year was $12M, the 3rd year is $31M. That's the year you'd want to be free of Cousins' money.
Agreed... But is that even possible? Considering Kirk already has almost $30M in dead money, in what world are we going to be free and clear of his contract 3 years from now if we extend him?
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