Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Senior Bowl practices live now on NFLN. DJ just said 11 WRs in the top 50. 11 OTs in the top 50. What are the two positions the Vikings don't need? Yeah.
I would like to see an OG/C taken this draft.
Depends a lot of what happens with Risner and Bradbury. If Risner comes back, I don't think you need to take a guard at any point in the draft.
Bradbury's a different story. He ranked middle of the pack last year. Then, in his first five games this season he was the only offensive lineman in the NFL to not allow a single pressure. It all fell apart at mid year and got worse with each game. By the end of the season he was playing as poorly as he did when he was a rookie. You can maybe blame some of that on the QB turnover, but probably not all of it.
What's more, releasing him frees up a good amount of cap space, and I don't believe he has a dead cap hit in 2024. I doubt that was an accident. But if we do, we have to make sure we're upgrading the position and not downgrading. And short of a trade, that's hard to see. Schlottmann might be the guy. He wasn't that bad actually.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Senior Bowl practices live now on NFLN. DJ just said 11 WRs in the top 50. 11 OTs in the top 50. What are the two positions the Vikings don't need? Yeah.
I would like to see an OG/C taken this draft.
Depends a lot of what happens with Risner and Bradbury. If Risner comes back, I don't think you need to take a guard at any point in the draft.
Bradbury's a different story. He ranked middle of the pack last year. Then, in his first five games this season he was the only offensive lineman in the NFL to not allow a single pressure. It all fell apart at mid year and got worse with each game. By the end of the season he was playing as poorly as he did when he was a rookie. You can maybe blame some of that on the QB turnover, but probably not all of it.
What's more, releasing him frees up a good amount of cap space, and I don't believe he has a dead cap hit in 2024. I doubt that was an accident. But if we do, we have to make sure we're upgrading the position and not downgrading. And short of a trade, that's hard to see. Schlottmann might be the guy. He wasn't that bad actually.
there shouldnt be a discussion at all on Bradbury, he needs to be replaced and I think is a primary issue with a lot of what ails the IOL, he just isnt stout enough for the position and hes proven it year after year since he got here. the cap savings is just gravy.
According to @alec_lewis, #Vikings GM Kwesi Adofo-Mensah was on the field this morning at the Senior Bowl and watched the throwing sessions of #Ducks QB Bo Nix and #Huskies QB Michael Penix Jr.
ESPN (Siefert) has us re-signing Cousins to a 2-year deal and taking JJ McCarthy at pick 42. That would be an ideal scenario as McCarthy is only 21 years old and could use some time for development. I'd guess more likely we'd actually trade up a little and expend some draft capital as everybody knows we're looking for a QBOTF and would jump ahead of us in the 2nd if McCarthy is still on the board.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3936...raft-picks
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ FLVike said:
I think with the 35 million saved from Cousins we will be active in FA and get oline good enough to give a rookie ample time to chuck it downfield.
I'll have what he's smoking.
Hes right, with the cap savings from Cousins over the next 2 years they could really add a lot of talent to the roster, but I doubt you find enough available talent in 1 year in FA to create an OL that is among the tops in the league and would make a rookie QB comfortable. To many moving pieces for that to happen.
Not in 2024. If Cousins is not extended by March 13, $28.5M will hit the Vikings' salary cap in '24 in dead money. Cousins' cap number likely comes down if he is extended. Of course, the $28.5M is a one-time hit in 2024 and we would be completely done with Cousins after that, if he is not extended.
Yes, but you arent going to get any quality free agents to sign 1 year deals so any added players deals would be able to be configured to use the cap savings from Kirk in year 2. And no, his cap number of 28.5 is not likely to come down with an extension unless the fuck around and push that money out past his playing time, which how we got into this stupid situation in the first place. Dumb as hell that they let it get to this point.
That's not how the cap works. You can push money paid this year to have a bigger cap hit next year where you have a lot more cap space. Everyone does it all the time. So yes, you can sign relevant FAs for more than one year with our current cap situation. And I strongly suspect that if we re-sign KC, his cap number for 2024 will go down. You can call it fuck around if you like but all 32 teams are fucking around. The cap situation now is actually pretty good. Your criticism is better directed at years past.
Yep, the cap number will go down for every contract we extend. Right now, JJ's hit is $19M because of the 5th year average of the franchise tender for WR. If he's extended, that number becomes whatever we want it to be. If we want it to be $5M so we can add some other players? Then it's $5M. That's why people call the cap a myth. It has 53 dimensions of flexibility. And what you choose to do with it is much more about where you are in your window than it is about money.
I know it sounds great to pay as you go. But all teams use future years. If you don't, you can't compete. Teams not using future years would be like a business not having a line of credit to invest in equipment, staffing, etc. They wouldn't be able to compete.
I have no problem with using future years... when you really have a reason to do it. This team was not realistically ready to contend last offseason, extending Kirk and creating the issues this offseason did nothing. Maybe they would have found lightning in a bottle, but realistically we all know that this team was not ready to make a playoff run with the issues we were facing.
It's easy to predict last year's results. It's harder to predict next year's. Coming off a 13 win season with Cousins having one more year in KOC's offense and getting rid of a terrible DC, it was not clear to all that we would lose our 2 best offensive players + Hockenson and miss the playoffs this season. But that's what happened. We know that now. It was hard to predict that before last season. It may have made some sense to try to do whatever we could to win last season considering our success the prior season. But view points can differ.
any objective fan would have told you that 22 was not the real Vikings team, hell anybody that watched enough football could have looked at that team and said they were a 9-11 win team with major holes on the OL, and the DL, which neither were adequately addressed in the offseason so why would anyone assume they would be better? The team that got ousted by the Giants at home was closer to the real team as was evidenced by how this season started.
until they address, in a major way, the IOL and the DL, this team is just wasting its time worrying about QBs and playoff runs.
The Vikings' biggest weakness in '22 was Donatell/defense. They replaced him with Flores. That was an upgrade. You really think that some hyper competitive athletes and coaches who won 13 games the prior year and were addressing their biggest weakness should have told themselves and each other that '22 was just a fluke; that we were not nearly that good; that there was no way we were ready to compete, even if we significantly improve our glaring weakness? I don't think those people make it to the NFL. People like that write about football. Usually in Minnesota.
You say the Vikings have not address the iol? In '22 and to start '23, the Vikings' iol consisted of a first round Center and 2 second round Guards. So by "address" you must mean that the Vikings did not spend first round picks at both guard spots?
When some NFL experts were predicting the Lions would win the NFCN in '23, the "objective fans" here went nuts. We all said we won the division and we did it with a lousy defense and the D will be much better under Flores and the Detroit Kittens never win anything, etc. etc. In other words, we sounded exactly like you would expect Vikings fans to sound.
Like I said above, everything is clearer in hindsight.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
According to @alec_lewis, #Vikings GM Kwesi Adofo-Mensah was on the field this morning at the Senior Bowl and watched the throwing sessions of #Ducks QB Bo Nix and #Huskies QB Michael Penix Jr.
But does he actually know what he's looking at?
Quote: @dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ FLVike said:
I think with the 35 million saved from Cousins we will be active in FA and get oline good enough to give a rookie ample time to chuck it downfield.
I'll have what he's smoking.
Hes right, with the cap savings from Cousins over the next 2 years they could really add a lot of talent to the roster, but I doubt you find enough available talent in 1 year in FA to create an OL that is among the tops in the league and would make a rookie QB comfortable. To many moving pieces for that to happen.
Not in 2024. If Cousins is not extended by March 13, $28.5M will hit the Vikings' salary cap in '24 in dead money. Cousins' cap number likely comes down if he is extended. Of course, the $28.5M is a one-time hit in 2024 and we would be completely done with Cousins after that, if he is not extended.
Yes, but you arent going to get any quality free agents to sign 1 year deals so any added players deals would be able to be configured to use the cap savings from Kirk in year 2. And no, his cap number of 28.5 is not likely to come down with an extension unless the fuck around and push that money out past his playing time, which how we got into this stupid situation in the first place. Dumb as hell that they let it get to this point.
That's not how the cap works. You can push money paid this year to have a bigger cap hit next year where you have a lot more cap space. Everyone does it all the time. So yes, you can sign relevant FAs for more than one year with our current cap situation. And I strongly suspect that if we re-sign KC, his cap number for 2024 will go down. You can call it fuck around if you like but all 32 teams are fucking around. The cap situation now is actually pretty good. Your criticism is better directed at years past.
Yep, the cap number will go down for every contract we extend. Right now, JJ's hit is $19M because of the 5th year average of the franchise tender for WR. If he's extended, that number becomes whatever we want it to be. If we want it to be $5M so we can add some other players? Then it's $5M. That's why people call the cap a myth. It has 53 dimensions of flexibility. And what you choose to do with it is much more about where you are in your window than it is about money.
I know it sounds great to pay as you go. But all teams use future years. If you don't, you can't compete. Teams not using future years would be like a business not having a line of credit to invest in equipment, staffing, etc. They wouldn't be able to compete.
I have no problem with using future years... when you really have a reason to do it. This team was not realistically ready to contend last offseason, extending Kirk and creating the issues this offseason did nothing. Maybe they would have found lightning in a bottle, but realistically we all know that this team was not ready to make a playoff run with the issues we were facing.
It's easy to predict last year's results. It's harder to predict next year's. Coming off a 13 win season with Cousins having one more year in KOC's offense and getting rid of a terrible DC, it was not clear to all that we would lose our 2 best offensive players + Hockenson and miss the playoffs this season. But that's what happened. We know that now. It was hard to predict that before last season. It may have made some sense to try to do whatever we could to win last season considering our success the prior season. But view points can differ.
any objective fan would have told you that 22 was not the real Vikings team, hell anybody that watched enough football could have looked at that team and said they were a 9-11 win team with major holes on the OL, and the DL, which neither were adequately addressed in the offseason so why would anyone assume they would be better? The team that got ousted by the Giants at home was closer to the real team as was evidenced by how this season started.
until they address, in a major way, the IOL and the DL, this team is just wasting its time worrying about QBs and playoff runs.
The Vikings' biggest weakness in '22 was Donatell/defense. They replaced him with Flores. That was an upgrade. You really think that some hyper competitive athletes and coaches who won 13 games the prior year and were addressing their biggest weakness should have told themselves and each other that '22 was just a fluke; that we were not nearly that good; that there was no way we were ready to compete, even if we significantly improve our glaring weakness? I don't think those people make it to the NFL. People like that write about football. Usually in Minnesota.
You say the Vikings have not address the iol? In '22 and to start '23, the Vikings' iol consisted of a first round Center and 2 second round Guards. So by "address" you must mean that the Vikings did not spend first round picks at both guard spots?
When some NFL experts were predicting the Lions would win the NFCN in '23, the "objective fans" here went nuts. We all said we won the division and we did it with a lousy defense and the D will be much better under Flores and the Detroit Kittens never win anything, etc. etc. In other words, we sounded exactly like you would expect Vikings fans to sound.
Like I said above, everything is clearer in hindsight.
No, meant the IOL sucked ass in pass pro in 22, and they ran it back in 23, that's called not addressing it. Sure some believe the answer is keep doing the same thing over and over and it will fix itself through continuity, I just didn't buy it then, and I still don't.
It's only hindsight if you weren't paying attention last year when many of us said the same thing. And not everyone was crying about the lions prediction, several here in fact called it before the talking heads. I wasn't picking them, but I wasn't saying the Vikes should be favored either. They hadn't fixed their OL or DL issues.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ FLVike said:
I think with the 35 million saved from Cousins we will be active in FA and get oline good enough to give a rookie ample time to chuck it downfield.
I'll have what he's smoking.
Hes right, with the cap savings from Cousins over the next 2 years they could really add a lot of talent to the roster, but I doubt you find enough available talent in 1 year in FA to create an OL that is among the tops in the league and would make a rookie QB comfortable. To many moving pieces for that to happen.
Not in 2024. If Cousins is not extended by March 13, $28.5M will hit the Vikings' salary cap in '24 in dead money. Cousins' cap number likely comes down if he is extended. Of course, the $28.5M is a one-time hit in 2024 and we would be completely done with Cousins after that, if he is not extended.
Yes, but you arent going to get any quality free agents to sign 1 year deals so any added players deals would be able to be configured to use the cap savings from Kirk in year 2. And no, his cap number of 28.5 is not likely to come down with an extension unless the fuck around and push that money out past his playing time, which how we got into this stupid situation in the first place. Dumb as hell that they let it get to this point.
That's not how the cap works. You can push money paid this year to have a bigger cap hit next year where you have a lot more cap space. Everyone does it all the time. So yes, you can sign relevant FAs for more than one year with our current cap situation. And I strongly suspect that if we re-sign KC, his cap number for 2024 will go down. You can call it fuck around if you like but all 32 teams are fucking around. The cap situation now is actually pretty good. Your criticism is better directed at years past.
Yep, the cap number will go down for every contract we extend. Right now, JJ's hit is $19M because of the 5th year average of the franchise tender for WR. If he's extended, that number becomes whatever we want it to be. If we want it to be $5M so we can add some other players? Then it's $5M. That's why people call the cap a myth. It has 53 dimensions of flexibility. And what you choose to do with it is much more about where you are in your window than it is about money.
I know it sounds great to pay as you go. But all teams use future years. If you don't, you can't compete. Teams not using future years would be like a business not having a line of credit to invest in equipment, staffing, etc. They wouldn't be able to compete.
I have no problem with using future years... when you really have a reason to do it. This team was not realistically ready to contend last offseason, extending Kirk and creating the issues this offseason did nothing. Maybe they would have found lightning in a bottle, but realistically we all know that this team was not ready to make a playoff run with the issues we were facing.
It's easy to predict last year's results. It's harder to predict next year's. Coming off a 13 win season with Cousins having one more year in KOC's offense and getting rid of a terrible DC, it was not clear to all that we would lose our 2 best offensive players + Hockenson and miss the playoffs this season. But that's what happened. We know that now. It was hard to predict that before last season. It may have made some sense to try to do whatever we could to win last season considering our success the prior season. But view points can differ.
any objective fan would have told you that 22 was not the real Vikings team, hell anybody that watched enough football could have looked at that team and said they were a 9-11 win team with major holes on the OL, and the DL, which neither were adequately addressed in the offseason so why would anyone assume they would be better? The team that got ousted by the Giants at home was closer to the real team as was evidenced by how this season started.
until they address, in a major way, the IOL and the DL, this team is just wasting its time worrying about QBs and playoff runs.
The Vikings' biggest weakness in '22 was Donatell/defense. They replaced him with Flores. That was an upgrade. You really think that some hyper competitive athletes and coaches who won 13 games the prior year and were addressing their biggest weakness should have told themselves and each other that '22 was just a fluke; that we were not nearly that good; that there was no way we were ready to compete, even if we significantly improve our glaring weakness? I don't think those people make it to the NFL. People like that write about football. Usually in Minnesota.
You say the Vikings have not address the iol? In '22 and to start '23, the Vikings' iol consisted of a first round Center and 2 second round Guards. So by "address" you must mean that the Vikings did not spend first round picks at both guard spots?
When some NFL experts were predicting the Lions would win the NFCN in '23, the "objective fans" here went nuts. We all said we won the division and we did it with a lousy defense and the D will be much better under Flores and the Detroit Kittens never win anything, etc. etc. In other words, we sounded exactly like you would expect Vikings fans to sound.
Like I said above, everything is clearer in hindsight.
No, meant the IOL sucked ass in pass pro in 22, and they ran it back in 23, that's called not addressing it. Sure some believe the answer is keep doing the same thing over and over and it will fix itself through continuity, I just didn't buy it then, and I still don't.
![[Image: xe4bb99dy78d.jpeg]](https://vikefans.com/vfforums/uploads/editor/n6/xe4bb99dy78d.jpeg)
Quote: @badgervike said:
ESPN (Siefert) has us re-signing Cousins to a 2-year deal and taking JJ McCarthy at pick 42. That would be an ideal scenario as McCarthy is only 21 years old and could use some time for development. I'd guess more likely we'd actually trade up a little and expend some draft capital as everybody knows we're looking for a QBOTF and would jump ahead of us in the 2nd if McCarthy is still on the board.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3936...raft-picks
Yeah, I wouldn't wait until 42 for McCarthy. There's an overnight between the 1st and 2nd round, which is going to give teams plenty of time to move to the top of the 2nd. I think pick number 33 is probably the most traded pick in the draft.
I think the Vikings will sign Cousins, but if they're targeting McCarthy, they probably need to move to the back of the 1st round. Plus it gives you the 5th year.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ badgervike said:
ESPN (Siefert) has us re-signing Cousins to a 2-year deal and taking JJ McCarthy at pick 42. That would be an ideal scenario as McCarthy is only 21 years old and could use some time for development. I'd guess more likely we'd actually trade up a little and expend some draft capital as everybody knows we're looking for a QBOTF and would jump ahead of us in the 2nd if McCarthy is still on the board.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3936...raft-picks
Yeah, I wouldn't wait until 42 for McCarthy. There's an overnight between the 1st and 2nd round, which is going to give teams plenty of time to move to the top of the 2nd. I think pick number 33 is probably the most traded pick in the draft.
I think the Vikings will sign Cousins, but if they're targeting McCarthy, they probably need to move to the back of the 1st round. Plus it gives you the 5th year.
I thought the same, NO WAY you can wait till 42 and expect him to be there.
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