Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ StickyBun said:
The more I do a layperson fan deep dive into this QB class, the more question marks I see. Sheesh. I think outside the top 2 or 3, the rest are going to be had in round 2. Or 3.
Happens every year. The more you look, the more warts you see. But that is offset by the NFL's desperate need for QBs.
A temporary consensus does seem to be settling in with Williams, Maye and Daniels as the top three QBs. But not necessarily in that order. I'm sensing a vibe that Maye may be moving down a bit. Then Nix in the 10-20 range, Penix on the border between 1 and 2. And then McCarthy in the 2nd.
It'll be interesting to see how much it changes. In January, 2011 Cam Newton was considered a middle-1st (he went #1), Ryan Mallett was top 10 (he went in the 3rd round). Ponder was nowhere to be found. He didn't start moving up until the Senior Bowl, where he was MVP. And the best QB from that draft (Kaepernick) was a 6th rounder (he went at the top of the 2nd round).
a little dated, but the data hasnt changed much since. I thought newton was a clown, but I would still have taken him over Kapernick.
That said, here are the comparisons between Kaepernick and Cam Newton.
Age
Kaepernick: 32
Cam Newton: 31
Year/Round Drafted
Kaepernick: 49ers (2011, Round 2, 36th Overall)
Cam Newton: Panthers (2011, First Overall)
College Highlights
Kaepernick: Only NCAA QB to pass for 10,000 yards and rush for 4,000 yards in a career (and still the only one). Guided Nevada to 34-31 win over Boise State in 2010, ending the Broncos' 24-game winning streak.
Cam Newton: Won the 2010 Heisman Trophy and every major quarterback and player of the year award with Auburn while guiding the Tigers to a 14-0 record and national championship. In 2009, Newton guided Blinn College to the NJCAA national championship.
Super Bowl Appearances
Kaepernick: (2012, Lost to Baltimore)
Cam Newton: (2015, Lost to New England)
Major NFL Awards
Kaepernick: None
Cam Newton: 2015 NFL MVP
Career Regular-Season Record
Kaepernick: 28-30 (48% win percentage)
Cam Newton: 68-55-1 (55%)
Career Playoff Record
Kaepernick: 4-2 (66%)
Cam Newton: 3-4 (43%)
Career Passing Yards
Kaepernick: 12,271
Cam Newton: 29,041
Career Passing Touchdowns
Kaepernick: 72
Cam Newton: 182
Career Completion Percentage
Kaepernick: 59.8
Cam Newton: 59.6
Seasons with 3,000-plus passing yards
Kaepernick: 2 in 6 seasons
Cam Newton: 8 in 9 seasons
Career Rushing Yards/Touchdowns
Kaepernick: 2,300 yards/13 TDs
Cam Newton: 4,806 yards/58 TDs
Game-Winning Drives
Kaepernick: 7
Cam Newton: 17
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ FLVike said:
I think with the 35 million saved from Cousins we will be active in FA and get oline good enough to give a rookie ample time to chuck it downfield.
I'll have what he's smoking.
Hes right, with the cap savings from Cousins over the next 2 years they could really add a lot of talent to the roster, but I doubt you find enough available talent in 1 year in FA to create an OL that is among the tops in the league and would make a rookie QB comfortable. To many moving pieces for that to happen.
Not in 2024. If Cousins is not extended by March 13, $28.5M will hit the Vikings' salary cap in '24 in dead money. Cousins' cap number likely comes down if he is extended. Of course, the $28.5M is a one-time hit in 2024 and we would be completely done with Cousins after that, if he is not extended.
Yes, but you arent going to get any quality free agents to sign 1 year deals so any added players deals would be able to be configured to use the cap savings from Kirk in year 2. And no, his cap number of 28.5 is not likely to come down with an extension unless the fuck around and push that money out past his playing time, which how we got into this stupid situation in the first place. Dumb as hell that they let it get to this point.
That's not how the cap works. You can push money paid this year to have a bigger cap hit next year where you have a lot more cap space. Everyone does it all the time. So yes, you can sign relevant FAs for more than one year with our current cap situation. And I strongly suspect that if we re-sign KC, his cap number for 2024 will go down. You can call it fuck around if you like but all 32 teams are fucking around. The cap situation now is actually pretty good. Your criticism is better directed at years past.
Yep, the cap number will go down for every contract we extend. Right now, JJ's hit is $19M because of the 5th year average of the franchise tender for WR. If he's extended, that number becomes whatever we want it to be. If we want it to be $5M so we can add some other players? Then it's $5M. That's why people call the cap a myth. It has 53 dimensions of flexibility. And what you choose to do with it is much more about where you are in your window than it is about money.
I know it sounds great to pay as you go. But all teams use future years. If you don't, you can't compete. Teams not using future years would be like a business not having a line of credit to invest in equipment, staffing, etc. They wouldn't be able to compete.
I have no problem with using future years... when you really have a reason to do it. This team was not realistically ready to contend last offseason, extending Kirk and creating the issues this offseason did nothing. Maybe they would have found lightning in a bottle, but realistically we all know that this team was not ready to make a playoff run with the issues we were facing.
It's easy to predict last year's results. It's harder to predict next year's. Coming off a 13 win season with Cousins having one more year in KOC's offense and getting rid of a terrible DC, it was not clear to all that we would lose our 2 best offensive players + Hockenson and miss the playoffs this season. But that's what happened. We know that now. It was hard to predict that before last season. It may have made some sense to try to do whatever we could to win last season considering our success the prior season. But view points can differ.
any objective fan would have told you that 22 was not the real Vikings team, hell anybody that watched enough football could have looked at that team and said they were a 9-11 win team with major holes on the OL, and the DL, which neither were adequately addressed in the offseason so why would anyone assume they would be better? The team that got ousted by the Giants at home was closer to the real team as was evidenced by how this season started.
until they address, in a major way, the IOL and the DL, this team is just wasting its time worrying about QBs and playoff runs.
So how was THIS year the 'real' Vikings? Cousins was injured and out. JJ was out for a long period. Injuries decimated the team. But last year was 'not real'? This is where if you can't see it, I sure won't be able to convince you.
Im not saying the Vikings don't need to improve, shouldn't draft a QB, etc. Need all of those things. But for a handful here, I just keep reading how badly the team sucks, there's no optimism, same ol' shit, etc. without any acknowledgement about losing Cousins and how devastating that is for any team losing their QB. This team isn't dogshit. There's no world beaters in Detroit or Green Bay, if you want to crown them, sure go ahead. Minnesota beat GB and should have beaten Detroit with dipshit Mullens at QB and a MASH unit playing. The Vikings also beat the team representing the NFC in the Superbowl.
They'll figure out the QB situation, count on it. What that will look like, who knows?
they werent the real team, remember this year they started 1-6, that wasnt them, anymore than the team that was left after Kirk went down, this team just has some glaring deficiencies and hoping for miracle finishes to all come up roses like they did in 22 is just not realistic. when I watch what opposing DTs do to our IOL, or what opposing running teams can do to our D, its staggering to think that we could make a 3 or 4 game run like the Chiefs in Jan/Feb. I just dont see it, hell when we've had those teams we havent gotten it done, why would one think a weaker roster with more to over come would be the team to get it done? I didnt see it happening, I didnt see what did happen happen, but the results were the same, by the 2nd round of the playoffs, the Vikings were playing golf once again.
I think if you want to answer the question "What are they?" it's not that hard.
They started 8-1 with KOC, a big, lucky bounce mostly from him being the anti-Zimmer who restored some fresh air and fun for the guys.
Then Dallas comes to town, 40-3 ass whipping, the party ends. 12-14 since. What are they? A .500 team.
KOC has a bunch of flaws that have shown up over time. He gets to the podium and makes the Les Frazier speech about fixing stuff. Coaches who make weekly it's my fault I gotta fix this and that speeches are usually on their way to being let go sooner or later.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ StickyBun said:
The more I do a layperson fan deep dive into this QB class, the more question marks I see. Sheesh. I think outside the top 2 or 3, the rest are going to be had in round 2. Or 3.
Happens every year. The more you look, the more warts you see. But that is offset by the NFL's desperate need for QBs.
A temporary consensus does seem to be settling in with Williams, Maye and Daniels as the top three QBs. But not necessarily in that order. I'm sensing a vibe that Maye may be moving down a bit. Then Nix in the 10-20 range, Penix on the border between 1 and 2. And then McCarthy in the 2nd.
It'll be interesting to see how much it changes. In January, 2011 Cam Newton was considered a middle-1st (he went #1), Ryan Mallett was top 10 (he went in the 3rd round). Ponder was nowhere to be found. He didn't start moving up until the Senior Bowl, where he was MVP. And the best QB from that draft (Kaepernick) was a 6th rounder (he went at the top of the 2nd round).
I think this is how it will play out in the draft too...
Some flex in the order of Maye vs Daniels - but there is clearly a tier 2. And yah, those tier 2 guys will be over-drafted.
If this does play out, what would be interesting is do the Vikings think enough of Nix to take him @ 11?
Or do they try and draft Penix or McCarthy later and take bpa @ 11?
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ StickyBun said:
The more I do a layperson fan deep dive into this QB class, the more question marks I see. Sheesh. I think outside the top 2 or 3, the rest are going to be had in round 2. Or 3.
Happens every year. The more you look, the more warts you see. But that is offset by the NFL's desperate need for QBs.
A temporary consensus does seem to be settling in with Williams, Maye and Daniels as the top three QBs. But not necessarily in that order. I'm sensing a vibe that Maye may be moving down a bit. Then Nix in the 10-20 range, Penix on the border between 1 and 2. And then McCarthy in the 2nd.
It'll be interesting to see how much it changes. In January, 2011 Cam Newton was considered a middle-1st (he went #1), Ryan Mallett was top 10 (he went in the 3rd round). Ponder was nowhere to be found. He didn't start moving up until the Senior Bowl, where he was MVP. And the best QB from that draft (Kaepernick) was a 6th rounder (he went at the top of the 2nd round).
I think this is how it will play out in the draft too...
Some flex in the order of Maye vs Daniels - but there is clearly a tier 2. And yah, those tier 2 guys will be over-drafted.
If this does play out, what would be interesting is do the Vikings think enough of Nix to take him @ 11?
Or do they try and draft Penix or McCarthy later and take bpa @ 11?
Yes either way there will be many fans disappointed in the first pick. Out of my 50 years, the Vikings only once picked the player I wanted which was Moss.
Quote: @FLVike said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ StickyBun said:
The more I do a layperson fan deep dive into this QB class, the more question marks I see. Sheesh. I think outside the top 2 or 3, the rest are going to be had in round 2. Or 3.
Happens every year. The more you look, the more warts you see. But that is offset by the NFL's desperate need for QBs.
A temporary consensus does seem to be settling in with Williams, Maye and Daniels as the top three QBs. But not necessarily in that order. I'm sensing a vibe that Maye may be moving down a bit. Then Nix in the 10-20 range, Penix on the border between 1 and 2. And then McCarthy in the 2nd.
It'll be interesting to see how much it changes. In January, 2011 Cam Newton was considered a middle-1st (he went #1), Ryan Mallett was top 10 (he went in the 3rd round). Ponder was nowhere to be found. He didn't start moving up until the Senior Bowl, where he was MVP. And the best QB from that draft (Kaepernick) was a 6th rounder (he went at the top of the 2nd round).
I think this is how it will play out in the draft too...
Some flex in the order of Maye vs Daniels - but there is clearly a tier 2. And yah, those tier 2 guys will be over-drafted.
If this does play out, what would be interesting is do the Vikings think enough of Nix to take him @ 11?
Or do they try and draft Penix or McCarthy later and take bpa @ 11?
Yes either way there will be many fans disappointed in the first pick. Out of my 50 years, the Vikings only once picked the player I wanted which was Moss.
I was pretty happy with JJ, AP, Cook, Bridgewater at the time....Not happy with Barr over Donald.
The rest is a blur for me lol!
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ StickyBun said:
The more I do a layperson fan deep dive into this QB class, the more question marks I see. Sheesh. I think outside the top 2 or 3, the rest are going to be had in round 2. Or 3.
Happens every year. The more you look, the more warts you see. But that is offset by the NFL's desperate need for QBs.
A temporary consensus does seem to be settling in with Williams, Maye and Daniels as the top three QBs. But not necessarily in that order. I'm sensing a vibe that Maye may be moving down a bit. Then Nix in the 10-20 range, Penix on the border between 1 and 2. And then McCarthy in the 2nd.
It'll be interesting to see how much it changes. In January, 2011 Cam Newton was considered a middle-1st (he went #1), Ryan Mallett was top 10 (he went in the 3rd round). Ponder was nowhere to be found. He didn't start moving up until the Senior Bowl, where he was MVP. And the best QB from that draft (Kaepernick) was a 6th rounder (he went at the top of the 2nd round).
I think this is how it will play out in the draft too...
Some flex in the order of Maye vs Daniels - but there is clearly a tier 2. And yah, those tier 2 guys will be over-drafted.
If this does play out, what would be interesting is do the Vikings think enough of Nix to take him @ 11?
Or do they try and draft Penix or McCarthy later and take bpa @ 11?
None of the above? Based on what we know from last year, I think the Vikings will try hard to move up for one of the top 3, even if they sign Cousins.
In order for that to happen, one of New England or Washington has to find their QB in free agency (Cousins, Wilson, Mayfield, Tannehill) or trade (Fields). If they're shut down again, the 4th QB at 11 wouldn't be much of a reach.
Senior Bowl practices live now on NFLN. DJ just said 11 WRs in the top 50. 11 OTs in the top 50. What are the two positions the Vikings don't need? Yeah.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
Senior Bowl practices live now on NFLN. DJ just said 11 WRs in the top 50. 11 OTs in the top 50. What are the two positions the Vikings don't need? Yeah.
I would like to see an OG/C taken this draft.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
None of the above? Based on what we know from last year, I think the Vikings will try hard to move up for one of the top 3, even if they sign Cousins.
In order for that to happen, one of New England or Washington has to find their QB in free agency (Cousins, Wilson, Mayfield, Tannehill) or trade (Fields). If they're shut down again, the 4th QB at 11 wouldn't be much of a reach.
unfortunately for us, both the Pats and Skins have a shit ton of cap space, they could afford to sign a FA QB to a large contract and still justify taking a rookie to groom behind the veteran. Not sure how accurate these are, but I doubt they miss by to much.
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-salary-cap-...-cap-space
| Team | Cap Space | Effective Cap Space* | Active Cap Spending | Dead Money | | Commanders | $73,649,626 | $62,595,334 | $168,947,131 | $7,133,514 | | Titans | $71,872,077 | $65,758,121 | $163,570,913 | $13,766,360 | | Texans | $69,959,976 | $59,382,313 | $171,091,928 | $1,879,652 | | Patriots | $66,102,006 | $57,325,547 | $167,936,688 | $7,983,623 | | Colts | $62,757,573 | $58,535,486 | $177,289,345 | $8,363,623 | | Bengals | $59,436,373 | $53,189,822 | $190,115,359 | $1,775,689 | | Lions | $58,618,386 | $45,320,841 | $184,386,768 | $1,431,310 | | Buccaneers | $47,156,102 | $35,283,295 | $197,342,011 | $203,678 | | Bears | $46,876,157 | $34,741,422 | $197,753,987 | $859,071 | | Cardinals | $42,183,130 | $30,989,080 | $195,693,003 | $14,151,579 | | Raiders | $36,048,311 | $31,434,823 | $198,980,709 | $13,562,160 | | Panthers | $28,599,402 | $26,539,136 | $212,268,200 | $4,894,998 | | Chiefs | $28,455,296 | $19,135,461 | $214,614,299 | $457,017 | | Rams | $27,699,574 | $24,056,666 | $217,549,945 | $752,765 | | Falcons | $25,849,508 | $20,051,337 | $220,248,701 | $523,102 | | Vikings | $24,918,132 | $19,772,740 | $219,749,496 | $3,508,541 | | Giants | $22,037,691 | $14,204,144 | $211,409,571 | $11,054,516 | | Eagles | $20,284,984 | $16,158,450 | $219,527,445 | $4,210,900 | | Jaguars | $14,498,293 | $10,319,286 | $233,811,342 | $806,259 | | Ravens | $13,658,828 | $5,239,655 | $229,690,545 | $788,530 | | Jets | $4,972,122 | $366,852 | $239,315,404 | $2,458,968 | | Packers | $7,359 | ($6,916,019) | $243,108,510 | $5,638,132 | |
| | | |
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*Represents the maximum cap space a team will have when it signs at least 51 players to its roster for that season.
| 49ers | ($2,925,835) | ($11,788,558) | $275,258,487 | $6,062,613 | | Seahawks | ($4,435,353) | ($9,508,500) | $251,872,087 | $237,492 | | Steelers | ($15,661,486) | ($19,377,318) | $259,700,564 | $301,114 | | Browns | ($19,502,046) | ($20,680,595) | $277,774,769 | $14,972,782 | | Cowboys | ($19,740,700) | ($22,805,299) | $259,376,592 | $7,266,496 | | Broncos | ($23,540,508) | ($27,318,717) | $257,324,261 | $9,693,124 | | Bills | ($43,732,359) | ($52,559,303) | $286,684,665 | $586,633 | | Chargers | ($45,806,935) | ($55,391,443) | $270,788,020 | $24,556,666 | | Dolphins | ($51,898,226) | ($58,869,079) | $284,734,330 | $10,309,238 | | Saints | ($83,683,454) | ($87,759,582) | $325,270,803 | $2,840,956 |
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