Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ FLVike said:
I'm going to say this just one time. And you already know what I would do. If Cousins really wants to stay here and if he really wants a chance to go to the Superbowl then he would be content with being extremely overpaid the last 6 years and tell management that he will play the next two years for 5 million a season so that they can build a better team with a chance to go to the Superbowl.
It's the same thing we heard last offseason when they weren't able to come to an agreement on an extension, "Kirk is happy in Minnesota, wants to stay in Minnesota, and will take less money to stay in Minnesota." So we'll see if that's reality this offseason because it sure wasn't last offseason. I'll believe it when I see it
Cousins will always say the right thing. They guy was conceived in a board room and born and raised in a corporate environment. He will go out and push the team and the organization's talking points and look like a CFO doing it. But he is about the money and the guarantees. I'm not being critical of that. He has the right to max out his income. And he has done that consistently. I'm fine with that. But I hope we are done playing that game with him. If he wants to sign a reasonable deal, fine. If not, let him walk.
Quote: @dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ FLVike said:
I think with the 35 million saved from Cousins we will be active in FA and get oline good enough to give a rookie ample time to chuck it downfield.
I'll have what he's smoking.
Hes right, with the cap savings from Cousins over the next 2 years they could really add a lot of talent to the roster, but I doubt you find enough available talent in 1 year in FA to create an OL that is among the tops in the league and would make a rookie QB comfortable. To many moving pieces for that to happen.
Not in 2024. If Cousins is not extended by March 13, $28.5M will hit the Vikings' salary cap in '24 in dead money. Cousins' cap number likely comes down if he is extended. Of course, the $28.5M is a one-time hit in 2024 and we would be completely done with Cousins after that, if he is not extended.
Yes, but you arent going to get any quality free agents to sign 1 year deals so any added players deals would be able to be configured to use the cap savings from Kirk in year 2. And no, his cap number of 28.5 is not likely to come down with an extension unless the fuck around and push that money out past his playing time, which how we got into this stupid situation in the first place. Dumb as hell that they let it get to this point.
That's not how the cap works. You can push money paid this year to have a bigger cap hit next year where you have a lot more cap space. Everyone does it all the time. So yes, you can sign relevant FAs for more than one year with our current cap situation. And I strongly suspect that if we re-sign KC, his cap number for 2024 will go down. You can call it fuck around if you like but all 32 teams are fucking around. The cap situation now is actually pretty good. Your criticism is better directed at years past.
Yep, the cap number will go down for every contract we extend. Right now, JJ's hit is $19M because of the 5th year average of the franchise tender for WR. If he's extended, that number becomes whatever we want it to be. If we want it to be $5M so we can add some other players? Then it's $5M. That's why people call the cap a myth. It has 53 dimensions of flexibility. And what you choose to do with it is much more about where you are in your window than it is about money.
I know it sounds great to pay as you go. But all teams use future years. If you don't, you can't compete. Teams not using future years would be like a business not having a line of credit to invest in equipment, staffing, etc. They wouldn't be able to compete.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ FLVike said:
I'm going to say this just one time. And you already know what I would do. If Cousins really wants to stay here and if he really wants a chance to go to the Superbowl then he would be content with being extremely overpaid the last 6 years and tell management that he will play the next two years for 5 million a season so that they can build a better team with a chance to go to the Superbowl.
It's the same thing we heard last offseason when they weren't able to come to an agreement on an extension, "Kirk is happy in Minnesota, wants to stay in Minnesota, and will take less money to stay in Minnesota." So we'll see if that's reality this offseason because it sure wasn't last offseason. I'll believe it when I see it
Kirk's agent will never go for this, not to mention Kirk himself. Why should they? The unknown factor is the injury. I don't think he can possibly have certainty about where the foot is at by the opening of free agency which is only about 6 weeks from now. I see him going into free agency, weighing offers and getting physicals. Probably doing a late-career contract tour to see if there's a team out there that could get him a ring before he quits.
And if he gets to f.a., the 28 million dollar dead cap money goes on the 2024 books, making it harder for the Vikings to continue into year 7 of Kirk, which frankly doesn't really go anywhere in terms of winning a title so I don't get why it makes people so excited. It seems to me that a Kirk decision to hit f.a. which seems like his natural inclination given his history, pretty much dictates that the Vikings will draft a qbotf and change directions.
But I could be wrong. :p
Quote: @dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ FLVike said:
I think with the 35 million saved from Cousins we will be active in FA and get oline good enough to give a rookie ample time to chuck it downfield.
I'll have what he's smoking.
Hes right, with the cap savings from Cousins over the next 2 years they could really add a lot of talent to the roster, but I doubt you find enough available talent in 1 year in FA to create an OL that is among the tops in the league and would make a rookie QB comfortable. To many moving pieces for that to happen.
Not in 2024. If Cousins is not extended by March 13, $28.5M will hit the Vikings' salary cap in '24 in dead money. Cousins' cap number likely comes down if he is extended. Of course, the $28.5M is a one-time hit in 2024 and we would be completely done with Cousins after that, if he is not extended.
Yes, but you arent going to get any quality free agents to sign 1 year deals so any added players deals would be able to be configured to use the cap savings from Kirk in year 2. And no, his cap number of 28.5 is not likely to come down with an extension unless the fuck around and push that money out past his playing time, which how we got into this stupid situation in the first place. Dumb as hell that they let it get to this point.
That's not how the cap works. You can push money paid this year to have a bigger cap hit next year where you have a lot more cap space. Everyone does it all the time. So yes, you can sign relevant FAs for more than one year with our current cap situation. And I strongly suspect that if we re-sign KC, his cap number for 2024 will go down. You can call it fuck around if you like but all 32 teams are fucking around. The cap situation now is actually pretty good. Your criticism is better directed at years past.
wasnt it KAM that extended Hunter and Cousins previous deals with dead cap money on future years to lower their cap hit last year? How is that on the previous regime? Could have just as well took the ass kicking last year instead of spreading it out into un-played years hampering the cap in the future... but then we could have competitively rebuilt that team on the cusp of ... another disappointing season.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ FLVike said:
I think with the 35 million saved from Cousins we will be active in FA and get oline good enough to give a rookie ample time to chuck it downfield.
I'll have what he's smoking.
Hes right, with the cap savings from Cousins over the next 2 years they could really add a lot of talent to the roster, but I doubt you find enough available talent in 1 year in FA to create an OL that is among the tops in the league and would make a rookie QB comfortable. To many moving pieces for that to happen.
Not in 2024. If Cousins is not extended by March 13, $28.5M will hit the Vikings' salary cap in '24 in dead money. Cousins' cap number likely comes down if he is extended. Of course, the $28.5M is a one-time hit in 2024 and we would be completely done with Cousins after that, if he is not extended.
Yes, but you arent going to get any quality free agents to sign 1 year deals so any added players deals would be able to be configured to use the cap savings from Kirk in year 2. And no, his cap number of 28.5 is not likely to come down with an extension unless the fuck around and push that money out past his playing time, which how we got into this stupid situation in the first place. Dumb as hell that they let it get to this point.
That's not how the cap works. You can push money paid this year to have a bigger cap hit next year where you have a lot more cap space. Everyone does it all the time. So yes, you can sign relevant FAs for more than one year with our current cap situation. And I strongly suspect that if we re-sign KC, his cap number for 2024 will go down. You can call it fuck around if you like but all 32 teams are fucking around. The cap situation now is actually pretty good. Your criticism is better directed at years past.
Yep, the cap number will go down for every contract we extend. Right now, JJ's hit is $19M because of the 5th year average of the franchise tender for WR. If he's extended, that number becomes whatever we want it to be. If we want it to be $5M so we can add some other players? Then it's $5M. That's why people call the cap a myth. It has 53 dimensions of flexibility. And what you choose to do with it is much more about where you are in your window than it is about money.
I know it sounds great to pay as you go. But all teams use future years. If you don't, you can't compete. Teams not using future years would be like a business not having a line of credit to invest in equipment, staffing, etc. They wouldn't be able to compete.
I have no problem with using future years... when you really have a reason to do it. This team was not realistically ready to contend last offseason, extending Kirk and creating the issues this offseason did nothing. Maybe they would have found lightning in a bottle, but realistically we all know that this team was not ready to make a playoff run with the issues we were facing.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ FLVike said:
I think with the 35 million saved from Cousins we will be active in FA and get oline good enough to give a rookie ample time to chuck it downfield.
I'll have what he's smoking.
Hes right, with the cap savings from Cousins over the next 2 years they could really add a lot of talent to the roster, but I doubt you find enough available talent in 1 year in FA to create an OL that is among the tops in the league and would make a rookie QB comfortable. To many moving pieces for that to happen.
Not in 2024. If Cousins is not extended by March 13, $28.5M will hit the Vikings' salary cap in '24 in dead money. Cousins' cap number likely comes down if he is extended. Of course, the $28.5M is a one-time hit in 2024 and we would be completely done with Cousins after that, if he is not extended.
Yes, but you arent going to get any quality free agents to sign 1 year deals so any added players deals would be able to be configured to use the cap savings from Kirk in year 2. And no, his cap number of 28.5 is not likely to come down with an extension unless the fuck around and push that money out past his playing time, which how we got into this stupid situation in the first place. Dumb as hell that they let it get to this point.
That's not how the cap works. You can push money paid this year to have a bigger cap hit next year where you have a lot more cap space. Everyone does it all the time. So yes, you can sign relevant FAs for more than one year with our current cap situation. And I strongly suspect that if we re-sign KC, his cap number for 2024 will go down. You can call it fuck around if you like but all 32 teams are fucking around. The cap situation now is actually pretty good. Your criticism is better directed at years past.
wasnt it KAM that extended Hunter and Cousins previous deals with dead cap money on future years to lower their cap hit last year? How is that on the previous regime? Could have just as well took the ass kicking last year instead of spreading it out into un-played years hampering the cap in the future... but then we could have competitively rebuilt that team on the cusp of ... another disappointing season.
Who said anything about a previous regime? Of course KAM will push money into future years where we have more cap space. Every GM does that.
Quote: @dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ FLVike said:
I think with the 35 million saved from Cousins we will be active in FA and get oline good enough to give a rookie ample time to chuck it downfield.
I'll have what he's smoking.
Hes right, with the cap savings from Cousins over the next 2 years they could really add a lot of talent to the roster, but I doubt you find enough available talent in 1 year in FA to create an OL that is among the tops in the league and would make a rookie QB comfortable. To many moving pieces for that to happen.
Not in 2024. If Cousins is not extended by March 13, $28.5M will hit the Vikings' salary cap in '24 in dead money. Cousins' cap number likely comes down if he is extended. Of course, the $28.5M is a one-time hit in 2024 and we would be completely done with Cousins after that, if he is not extended.
Yes, but you arent going to get any quality free agents to sign 1 year deals so any added players deals would be able to be configured to use the cap savings from Kirk in year 2. And no, his cap number of 28.5 is not likely to come down with an extension unless the fuck around and push that money out past his playing time, which how we got into this stupid situation in the first place. Dumb as hell that they let it get to this point.
That's not how the cap works. You can push money paid this year to have a bigger cap hit next year where you have a lot more cap space. Everyone does it all the time. So yes, you can sign relevant FAs for more than one year with our current cap situation. And I strongly suspect that if we re-sign KC, his cap number for 2024 will go down. You can call it fuck around if you like but all 32 teams are fucking around. The cap situation now is actually pretty good. Your criticism is better directed at years past.
wasnt it KAM that extended Hunter and Cousins previous deals with dead cap money on future years to lower their cap hit last year? How is that on the previous regime? Could have just as well took the ass kicking last year instead of spreading it out into un-played years hampering the cap in the future... but then we could have competitively rebuilt that team on the cusp of ... another disappointing season.
Who said anything about a previous regime? Of course KAM will push money into future years where we have more cap space. Every GM does that.
You said criticism was better directed in the past... well RS was the most recent past. KAM was the present and we were talking about this year, he pushed cap money into 24 on Hunter and Cousins and we dont have a replacement for either, and dont really have the cap space to eat their dead money, so he effectively gave away any negotiating room he had and still have the ability to sign new players. all this talk about how much cap space we will have is fine and well, as long as we dont use it all on dead cap hits created by letting Cousins and Hunter walk because we want to go in a different direction.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ FLVike said:
I think with the 35 million saved from Cousins we will be active in FA and get oline good enough to give a rookie ample time to chuck it downfield.
I'll have what he's smoking.
Hes right, with the cap savings from Cousins over the next 2 years they could really add a lot of talent to the roster, but I doubt you find enough available talent in 1 year in FA to create an OL that is among the tops in the league and would make a rookie QB comfortable. To many moving pieces for that to happen.
Not in 2024. If Cousins is not extended by March 13, $28.5M will hit the Vikings' salary cap in '24 in dead money. Cousins' cap number likely comes down if he is extended. Of course, the $28.5M is a one-time hit in 2024 and we would be completely done with Cousins after that, if he is not extended.
Yes, but you arent going to get any quality free agents to sign 1 year deals so any added players deals would be able to be configured to use the cap savings from Kirk in year 2. And no, his cap number of 28.5 is not likely to come down with an extension unless the fuck around and push that money out past his playing time, which how we got into this stupid situation in the first place. Dumb as hell that they let it get to this point.
That's not how the cap works. You can push money paid this year to have a bigger cap hit next year where you have a lot more cap space. Everyone does it all the time. So yes, you can sign relevant FAs for more than one year with our current cap situation. And I strongly suspect that if we re-sign KC, his cap number for 2024 will go down. You can call it fuck around if you like but all 32 teams are fucking around. The cap situation now is actually pretty good. Your criticism is better directed at years past.
Yep, the cap number will go down for every contract we extend. Right now, JJ's hit is $19M because of the 5th year average of the franchise tender for WR. If he's extended, that number becomes whatever we want it to be. If we want it to be $5M so we can add some other players? Then it's $5M. That's why people call the cap a myth. It has 53 dimensions of flexibility. And what you choose to do with it is much more about where you are in your window than it is about money.
I know it sounds great to pay as you go. But all teams use future years. If you don't, you can't compete. Teams not using future years would be like a business not having a line of credit to invest in equipment, staffing, etc. They wouldn't be able to compete.
I have no problem with using future years... when you really have a reason to do it. This team was not realistically ready to contend last offseason, extending Kirk and creating the issues this offseason did nothing. Maybe they would have found lightning in a bottle, but realistically we all know that this team was not ready to make a playoff run with the issues we were facing.
It's easy to predict last year's results. It's harder to predict next year's. Coming off a 13 win season with Cousins having one more year in KOC's offense and getting rid of a terrible DC, it was not clear to all that we would lose our 2 best offensive players + Hockenson and miss the playoffs this season. But that's what happened. We know that now. It was hard to predict that before last season. It may have made some sense to try to do whatever we could to win last season considering our success the prior season. But view points can differ.
Quote: @dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ FLVike said:
I think with the 35 million saved from Cousins we will be active in FA and get oline good enough to give a rookie ample time to chuck it downfield.
I'll have what he's smoking.
Hes right, with the cap savings from Cousins over the next 2 years they could really add a lot of talent to the roster, but I doubt you find enough available talent in 1 year in FA to create an OL that is among the tops in the league and would make a rookie QB comfortable. To many moving pieces for that to happen.
Not in 2024. If Cousins is not extended by March 13, $28.5M will hit the Vikings' salary cap in '24 in dead money. Cousins' cap number likely comes down if he is extended. Of course, the $28.5M is a one-time hit in 2024 and we would be completely done with Cousins after that, if he is not extended.
Yes, but you arent going to get any quality free agents to sign 1 year deals so any added players deals would be able to be configured to use the cap savings from Kirk in year 2. And no, his cap number of 28.5 is not likely to come down with an extension unless the fuck around and push that money out past his playing time, which how we got into this stupid situation in the first place. Dumb as hell that they let it get to this point.
That's not how the cap works. You can push money paid this year to have a bigger cap hit next year where you have a lot more cap space. Everyone does it all the time. So yes, you can sign relevant FAs for more than one year with our current cap situation. And I strongly suspect that if we re-sign KC, his cap number for 2024 will go down. You can call it fuck around if you like but all 32 teams are fucking around. The cap situation now is actually pretty good. Your criticism is better directed at years past.
Yep, the cap number will go down for every contract we extend. Right now, JJ's hit is $19M because of the 5th year average of the franchise tender for WR. If he's extended, that number becomes whatever we want it to be. If we want it to be $5M so we can add some other players? Then it's $5M. That's why people call the cap a myth. It has 53 dimensions of flexibility. And what you choose to do with it is much more about where you are in your window than it is about money.
I know it sounds great to pay as you go. But all teams use future years. If you don't, you can't compete. Teams not using future years would be like a business not having a line of credit to invest in equipment, staffing, etc. They wouldn't be able to compete.
I have no problem with using future years... when you really have a reason to do it. This team was not realistically ready to contend last offseason, extending Kirk and creating the issues this offseason did nothing. Maybe they would have found lightning in a bottle, but realistically we all know that this team was not ready to make a playoff run with the issues we were facing.
It's easy to predict last year's results. It's harder to predict next year's. Coming off a 13 win season with Cousins having one more year in KOC's offense and getting rid of a terrible DC, it was not clear to all that we would lose our 2 best offensive players + Hockenson and miss the playoffs this season. But that's what happened. We know that now. It was hard to predict that before last season. It may have made some sense to try to do whatever we could to win last season considering our success the prior season. But view points can differ.
any objective fan would have told you that 22 was not the real Vikings team, hell anybody that watched enough football could have looked at that team and said they were a 9-11 win team with major holes on the OL, and the DL, which neither were adequately addressed in the offseason so why would anyone assume they would be better? The team that got ousted by the Giants at home was closer to the real team as was evidenced by how this season started.
until they address, in a major way, the IOL and the DL, this team is just wasting its time worrying about QBs and playoff runs.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ dadevike said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ FLVike said:
I think with the 35 million saved from Cousins we will be active in FA and get oline good enough to give a rookie ample time to chuck it downfield.
I'll have what he's smoking.
Hes right, with the cap savings from Cousins over the next 2 years they could really add a lot of talent to the roster, but I doubt you find enough available talent in 1 year in FA to create an OL that is among the tops in the league and would make a rookie QB comfortable. To many moving pieces for that to happen.
Not in 2024. If Cousins is not extended by March 13, $28.5M will hit the Vikings' salary cap in '24 in dead money. Cousins' cap number likely comes down if he is extended. Of course, the $28.5M is a one-time hit in 2024 and we would be completely done with Cousins after that, if he is not extended.
Yes, but you arent going to get any quality free agents to sign 1 year deals so any added players deals would be able to be configured to use the cap savings from Kirk in year 2. And no, his cap number of 28.5 is not likely to come down with an extension unless the fuck around and push that money out past his playing time, which how we got into this stupid situation in the first place. Dumb as hell that they let it get to this point.
That's not how the cap works. You can push money paid this year to have a bigger cap hit next year where you have a lot more cap space. Everyone does it all the time. So yes, you can sign relevant FAs for more than one year with our current cap situation. And I strongly suspect that if we re-sign KC, his cap number for 2024 will go down. You can call it fuck around if you like but all 32 teams are fucking around. The cap situation now is actually pretty good. Your criticism is better directed at years past.
Yep, the cap number will go down for every contract we extend. Right now, JJ's hit is $19M because of the 5th year average of the franchise tender for WR. If he's extended, that number becomes whatever we want it to be. If we want it to be $5M so we can add some other players? Then it's $5M. That's why people call the cap a myth. It has 53 dimensions of flexibility. And what you choose to do with it is much more about where you are in your window than it is about money.
I know it sounds great to pay as you go. But all teams use future years. If you don't, you can't compete. Teams not using future years would be like a business not having a line of credit to invest in equipment, staffing, etc. They wouldn't be able to compete.
I have no problem with using future years... when you really have a reason to do it. This team was not realistically ready to contend last offseason, extending Kirk and creating the issues this offseason did nothing. Maybe they would have found lightning in a bottle, but realistically we all know that this team was not ready to make a playoff run with the issues we were facing.
It's easy to predict last year's results. It's harder to predict next year's. Coming off a 13 win season with Cousins having one more year in KOC's offense and getting rid of a terrible DC, it was not clear to all that we would lose our 2 best offensive players + Hockenson and miss the playoffs this season. But that's what happened. We know that now. It was hard to predict that before last season. It may have made some sense to try to do whatever we could to win last season considering our success the prior season. But view points can differ.
any objective fan would have told you that 22 was not the real Vikings team, hell anybody that watched enough football could have looked at that team and said they were a 9-11 win team with major holes on the OL, and the DL, which neither were adequately addressed in the offseason so why would anyone assume they would be better? The team that got ousted by the Giants at home was closer to the real team as was evidenced by how this season started.
until they address, in a major way, the IOL and the DL, this team is just wasting its time worrying about QBs and playoff runs.
So how was THIS year the 'real' Vikings? Cousins was injured and out. JJ was out for a long period. Injuries decimated the team. But last year was 'not real'? This is where if you can't see it, I sure won't be able to convince you.
Im not saying the Vikings don't need to improve, shouldn't draft a QB, etc. Need all of those things. But for a handful here, I just keep reading how badly the team sucks, there's no optimism, same ol' shit, etc. without any acknowledgement about losing Cousins and how devastating that is for any team losing their QB. This team isn't dogshit. There's no world beaters in Detroit or Green Bay, if you want to crown them, sure go ahead. Minnesota beat GB and should have beaten Detroit with dipshit Mullens at QB and a MASH unit playing. The Vikings also beat the team representing the NFC in the Superbowl.
They'll figure out the QB situation, count on it. What that will look like, who knows?
|
