Jared Allen says Vikings need move on from Kirk Cousins

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@CFIAvike said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@CFIAvike said:
And if "placeholder" is all you want, then it might as well be Mullins. At least he knows the system and knows he's nothing more than a back up.  

Because that's the skill level we're taking about here.  NO ONE with starter skills is going to sign for less that starter money

you can find guys that are bottom tier starters that play for much less than what KC is likely to be getting.  Baker Mayfield is expected to sign a deal for under 20 per year,  why not go get Baker, even if its on a longer term at say 18 million per year,  give him some trade protections,  and then still go get your rookie.  the team comes out millions ahead,  has a much better back if the rookie  wins out, and still has a QB that will put butts in the seats ( although I dont think that is a problem yet based on the resale market ticket prices ( even after Kirk went down )

That's what I want to see "lower tier starters" until we happen upon a QB in the draft.  That's how you get 7-8 years of Sean Salisbury, Sage Rosenfels, Matt Cassel, Case Keenum, washed up Donovan McNabb, Gus Frerotte...

Sign me up dude....that's gonna be awesome 

You assume our draft pick fails in your hypothetical,  I am going to say we find a quality guy who takes the reins in his first year,  just maybe not right away which makes a quality #2 a good idea so you don't necessarily have a shit start to your season.i would say stay with Cousins if he would play for 20 to 25  million,  but he won't so we find the best we can in that price range and fix the rest of the roster in preparation for a new QB1.

Whats the harm in giving the new QB a little extra time to prepare?  The fans have to wait a little to see their shiny new toy in action?  You are worried about years of shit play,   rushing kids into situations they aren't prepared for is just as likely to lead to shit play.  Whoever it is will still be learning,   just not getting piss pounded weekly by the media and the opponents until he's had a little time to absorb the pro level. 

Or maybe he starts right away,   gets dinged and we need a decent backup to keep the season from going to shit until our new #1 returns,  imagine if KC had only been out for 6 weeks and could have returned in December how much better off we would have been with a quality back up ( if we could have afforded one)

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@StickyBun said:

@CFIAvike said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@CFIAvike said:
And if "placeholder" is all you want, then it might as well be Mullins. At least he knows the system and knows he's nothing more than a back up.  

Because that's the skill level we're taking about here.  NO ONE with starter skills is going to sign for less that starter money

you can find guys that are bottom tier starters that play for much less than what KC is likely to be getting.  Baker Mayfield is expected to sign a deal for under 20 per year,  why not go get Baker, even if its on a longer term at say 18 million per year,  give him some trade protections,  and then still go get your rookie.  the team comes out millions ahead,  has a much better back if the rookie  wins out, and still has a QB that will put butts in the seats ( although I dont think that is a problem yet based on the resale market ticket prices ( even after Kirk went down )

That's what I want to see "lower tier starters" until we happen upon a QB in the draft.  That's how you get 7-8 years of Sean Salisbury, Sage Rosenfels, Matt Cassel, Case Keenum, washed up Donovan McNabb, Gus Frerotte...

Sign me up dude....that's gonna be awesome 

Sounds fun, doesn't it? And then the odds of a drafted QB not making it are higher than making it, so all of these hopes pinned to a new savior QB and it doesn't work? 10 years of garbage football.

As opposed to 2 or maybe 3 more years of KC and mediocrity,  and then 10 years of garbage football?  I don't see the upside to signing Kirk again or forcing rookies into action before they are ready without a solid backup plan that can at least keep fans interested.  There will be lower tier starters,  higher tier backups that will play for a contract that allows the team options and cap room to fix other needs. 

Or we force a rookie into action to soon,  create a David Carr scenario,  and go back to the draft well in 25.   I dont understand the desire to rush a kid into service before the coach thinks they are ready.

[Guest]

If you don’t resign Kirk, you’d better get lucky or JJ is gone. He isn’t going to stick around with a very average “bridge” QB and a blown up roster. From a WR’s perspective he’s had filet mignon for his career and just got a taste of life without Cousins. I wouldn’t blame him one but for leaving. He wants that 2,000 yard season and he knows the guy he needs to get him there. 
Cousins contract came in as being very reasonable compared to his peers last year. If he’s willing to do something similar this year, it’s a super easy decision bringing him back. 
The salary cap is going up and the Vikings bit the bullet this past year and ate a ton of dead cap. They’re actually in good shape to get everything done this year. They can get Kirk, JJ, and Hunter all under contrac5 no problem.

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@Havoc1649 said:
If you don’t resign Kirk, you’d better get lucky or JJ is gone. He isn’t going to stick around with a very average “bridge” QB and a blown up roster. From a WR’s perspective he’s had filet mignon for his career and just got a taste of life without Cousins. I wouldn’t blame him one but for leaving. He wants that 2,000 yard season and he knows the guy he needs to get him there. 

Cousins contract came in as being very reasonable compared to his peers last year. If he’s willing to do something similar this year, it’s a super easy decision bringing him back. 
The salary cap is going up and the Vikings bit the bullet this past year and ate a ton of dead cap. They’re actually in good shape to get everything done this year. They can get Kirk, JJ, and Hunter all under contrac5 no problem.

JJ is under team control through 2025 with the franchise tag ( could even do it again in 26 I believe) ,  if we dont have the QB situation fixed by then,  whats the point in keeping him around?  honestly if we have a shit start to next year and it doesnt look like our bridge QB and QB pick is going to work out,  trade him before the deadline and really blow the thing up.  He can say all he wants about who is QB,  but if the team offers him a good 3 or 4 year deal this offseason,  he isnt likely to wait to find out who his QB will be.  Its almost  always about the money.

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@Havoc1649 said:
If you don’t resign Kirk, you’d better get lucky or JJ is gone. He isn’t going to stick around with a very average “bridge” QB and a blown up roster. From a WR’s perspective he’s had filet mignon for his career and just got a taste of life without Cousins. I wouldn’t blame him one but for leaving. He wants that 2,000 yard season and he knows the guy he needs to get him there. 

Cousins contract came in as being very reasonable compared to his peers last year. If he’s willing to do something similar this year, it’s a super easy decision bringing him back. 
The salary cap is going up and the Vikings bit the bullet this past year and ate a ton of dead cap. They’re actually in good shape to get everything done this year. They can get Kirk, JJ, and Hunter all under contrac5 no problem.

JJ is under team control through 2025 with the franchise tag ( could even do it again in 26 I believe) ,  if we dont have the QB situation fixed by then,  whats the point in keeping him around?  honestly if we have a shit start to next year and it doesnt look like our bridge QB and QB pick is going to work out,  trade him before the deadline and really blow the thing up.  He can say all he wants about who is QB,  but if the team offers him a good 3 or 4 year deal this offseason,  he isnt likely to wait to find out who his QB will be.  Its almost  always about the money.

Jimmy, you just have a hard on for blowing shit up. 

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@Havoc1649 said:
If you don’t resign Kirk, you’d better get lucky or JJ is gone. He isn’t going to stick around with a very average “bridge” QB and a blown up roster. From a WR’s perspective he’s had filet mignon for his career and just got a taste of life without Cousins. I wouldn’t blame him one but for leaving. He wants that 2,000 yard season and he knows the guy he needs to get him there. 

Cousins contract came in as being very reasonable compared to his peers last year. If he’s willing to do something similar this year, it’s a super easy decision bringing him back. 
The salary cap is going up and the Vikings bit the bullet this past year and ate a ton of dead cap. They’re actually in good shape to get everything done this year. They can get Kirk, JJ, and Hunter all under contrac5 no problem.

JJ is under team control through 2025 with the franchise tag ( could even do it again in 26 I believe) ,  if we dont have the QB situation fixed by then,  whats the point in keeping him around?  honestly if we have a shit start to next year and it doesnt look like our bridge QB and QB pick is going to work out,  trade him before the deadline and really blow the thing up.  He can say all he wants about who is QB,  but if the team offers him a good 3 or 4 year deal this offseason,  he isnt likely to wait to find out who his QB will be.  Its almost  always about the money.

What's the point in having superstar players then? I mean, isn't that the point? Playmakers? I just don't get this mentality. 

[Guest]

@Havoc1649 said:
If you don’t resign Kirk, you’d better get lucky or JJ is gone. He isn’t going to stick around with a very average “bridge” QB and a blown up roster. From a WR’s perspective he’s had filet mignon for his career and just got a taste of life without Cousins. I wouldn’t blame him one but for leaving. He wants that 2,000 yard season and he knows the guy he needs to get him there. 

Cousins contract came in as being very reasonable compared to his peers last year. If he’s willing to do something similar this year, it’s a super easy decision bringing him back. 
The salary cap is going up and the Vikings bit the bullet this past year and ate a ton of dead cap. They’re actually in good shape to get everything done this year. They can get Kirk, JJ, and Hunter all under contrac5 no problem.

Yes, I think many are underestimating just how much financial good those decisions did.

The Vikings now have about $40M in cap space. And that includes a $19M hit for Jefferson's 5th year, which will likely be cut in half with an extension and Harrison Smith's $19M which will be reduced by $12M with a post June 1 release. There is also Hunter's $14M which will be reduced with an extension and Brian O'Neill's whopping $22M cap hit, which might be a restructure target. 

In other words, if the Vikings decide to go for it--and why the hell would they not--they can easily sign everyone they want and still have plenty of money left over for a top tier free agent or two. 

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@StickyBun said:

@CFIAvike said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@CFIAvike said:
And if "placeholder" is all you want, then it might as well be Mullins. At least he knows the system and knows he's nothing more than a back up.  

Because that's the skill level we're taking about here.  NO ONE with starter skills is going to sign for less that starter money

you can find guys that are bottom tier starters that play for much less than what KC is likely to be getting.  Baker Mayfield is expected to sign a deal for under 20 per year,  why not go get Baker, even if its on a longer term at say 18 million per year,  give him some trade protections,  and then still go get your rookie.  the team comes out millions ahead,  has a much better back if the rookie  wins out, and still has a QB that will put butts in the seats ( although I dont think that is a problem yet based on the resale market ticket prices ( even after Kirk went down )

That's what I want to see "lower tier starters" until we happen upon a QB in the draft.  That's how you get 7-8 years of Sean Salisbury, Sage Rosenfels, Matt Cassel, Case Keenum, washed up Donovan McNabb, Gus Frerotte...

Sign me up dude....that's gonna be awesome 

Sounds fun, doesn't it? And then the odds of a drafted QB not making it are higher than making it, so all of these hopes pinned to a new savior QB and it doesn't work? 10 years of garbage football.

As opposed to 2 or maybe 3 more years of KC and mediocrity,  and then 10 years of garbage football?  I don't see the upside to signing Kirk again or forcing rookies into action before they are ready without a solid backup plan that can at least keep fans interested.  There will be lower tier starters,  higher tier backups that will play for a contract that allows the team options and cap room to fix other needs. 

Or we force a rookie into action to soon,  create a David Carr scenario,  and go back to the draft well in 25.   I dont understand the desire to rush a kid into service before the coach thinks they are ready.

Who are we precluded from signing or drafting if we keep KC for 2 years at 30-35 million?

It's a historical certainty that this team won't sign more than 1 major FA in the offseason. As it stands, we can still sign FA depth players for both lines. We have the money and to sign JJ, DH. We can still draft our QBOTF, draft D-line, CB, RB, O-line. The savings of 10-15 million that you think you can get for signing a "high second tier QB", that will match KC's production is not only a myth, but would turn into a completely unnecessary, weekly kick to the sack, only if and until the QBOTF can play up to KC's level.  

[Guest]

The year Bridgewater was drafted he ended starting for the season in the 5th game.

Edit: KC production this year was a 500 quarterback who lead the team with turnovers for the year.

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@Havoc1649 said:
If you don’t resign Kirk, you’d better get lucky or JJ is gone. He isn’t going to stick around with a very average “bridge” QB and a blown up roster. From a WR’s perspective he’s had filet mignon for his career and just got a taste of life without Cousins. I wouldn’t blame him one but for leaving. He wants that 2,000 yard season and he knows the guy he needs to get him there. 

Cousins contract came in as being very reasonable compared to his peers last year. If he’s willing to do something similar this year, it’s a super easy decision bringing him back. 
The salary cap is going up and the Vikings bit the bullet this past year and ate a ton of dead cap. They’re actually in good shape to get everything done this year. They can get Kirk, JJ, and Hunter all under contrac5 no problem.

JJ is under team control through 2025 with the franchise tag ( could even do it again in 26 I believe) ,  if we dont have the QB situation fixed by then,  whats the point in keeping him around?  honestly if we have a shit start to next year and it doesnt look like our bridge QB and QB pick is going to work out,  trade him before the deadline and really blow the thing up.  He can say all he wants about who is QB,  but if the team offers him a good 3 or 4 year deal this offseason,  he isnt likely to wait to find out who his QB will be.  Its almost  always about the money.

Jimmy, you just have a hard on for blowing shit up. 

as opposed to your hardon for anybody currently wearing a Vikings jersey?  The blow it up was more tongue in cheek,  however my point is the same for all those that keep wimpering about losing JJ if he doesnt like the QB,  he is under team control for at least 2 more seasons.  He may not like KCs replacement,  but I can about guarantee when it comes down to him getting a new deal that has protections, vs playing the next 2 or 3 years without protections.... he will likely sign the deal.  He may try the Diggs bitch routine, but I think JJ has to much class for that approach.