Quote: @Zanary said:
Up here by Seattle, there was a constant litany of grades, accountability, etc in schools all being "racist"...and it bubbled back up with annoying regularity.
I'm going to let some of you in on a secret: nothing is as terrifying to a severe cynic as society actually proving to be DUMBER than he/she thought.
You said a mouthful there and I agree. No doubt people are dumb, shockingly so sometimes. And also very emotionally stupid.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ dadevike said:
All good points . . . but I'm not too worried about kids who got into Yale. I'll bet they can all read at whatever level you'd like them to read and can all do college level math. The acceptance rate at Yale is around 5% and their applicants are unbelievably qualified.
If you want to talk about the below-average kids and those who get pushed along from one grade to the next regardless of achievement, fine. (If I were a high school teacher and you failed my basic H.S. class, I sure as hell would not want to see you back in my class the next year. I would hope you would be someone else's problem next year.) But to use Yale as the starting point for the failure of US education is quite the stretch.
If you got into Yale on your merits - not because your parents donated $50M or because your dad is George Herbert Walker Bush - it hardly matters if you got an A for doing B level (Yale level) work. These are among the top of all H.S. students in the country.
Just move past Yale, lol. Its just another example of this trend that's been going on for awhile now in public education (high school, college, etc.).
But keep in mind that a decent portion of students at Yale or other Ivy League schools are legacy, close to 16%. That means they'd have never gotten in otherwise. Another percentage are diversity inclusions, which also are allowed in on lower standards. So yes, Ivy League schools are very good, but they also are not exactly what they are cracked up to be either.
Yep, I mentioned legacies. (I decline your invitation to take a swipe at diversity.) I'm just not convinced we have a problem at the elite schools, even with the grade inflation. These colleges are competing against each other for the best students (in the world). How are they going to do that? Certainly not by lowering tuition. And what's the point of offering merit scholarships when everyone would qualify for them? So they compete with grades. If you go to Yale or Harvard or Brown and work hard, with the talent required to get into those schools, you will get an A. We all know it's not just Yale. And that's the point: we all know. If you are interviewing a Harvard grad with a 3.4 GPA, there is probably a good reason why his GPA is "so low." And that reason is he is likely lazy or immature. Whatever his issue, it is likely not a lack of brains.
The issues with diversity have stemmed from systemic racism. Why access to education is denied to certain groups (this is still happening) and there are biases in the education system that impact the students and outcomes, there is going to be a difference. There are still many barriers for diverse students through the educational process and into their careers
Quote: @Vikergirl said:
The issues with diversity have stemmed from systemic racism. Why access to education is denied to certain groups (this is still happening) and there are biases in the education system that impact the students and outcomes, there is going to be a difference. There are still many barriers for diverse students through the educational process and into their careers
is it really their race, or where they are from, perhaps their ability to afford a more affluent education, or maybe its their own damn fault as they have skate by due to a society that has been conditioned to give free passes ? I know that I am white as the snow that is supposed to fall tonight, and I am not naive to fucking bigots, but at some point we need to start to dig a little deeper than skin color or we will never get to the root of the issue, because honestly, skin color is low hanging fruit in the era of quotas, social media, mandated equality, and so much more that is designed to not only give a hand up, but a hand out to those of a minority status. this cry of discrimination is creating a class of worthless individuals that have skated by on their minority status, and as soon as life get tough ( which by the way, happens for poor white folks too ) they drop a race, sex, gender, social class, sexual preference, religious, nationality, location, left handed vs right handed, hair color, eye color, what the fuck ever they can use to not be held accountable, card. ( some of which are played by whites) by the way, I am overweight, should I get a leg up on my competition in the bids I have coming up against fit salesman? no fucking way, i need to get my fat ass to put down the whiskey and get on a treadmill.
this country is full of success stories of "minorities" that have been able to build status and wealth despite their genetic "shortcomings", IMO this recent tendency to give free passes to those underperforming and claiming a bias is what is a major part of what is holding our country back in todays world economic theatre. even most white classes in this country have dealt with bias and lack of opportunities for periods of our young countries history.... Italians, Irish , Jews, Polish, Germans, etc, just because their skin was white, doesnt mean they were spit on, forced into slavery, or other shit, but the stronger of their sects pushed through, broke that barrier and have created a better place for themselves and those like them. That is the American Dream, not an easy life on a the tit of others.
Quote: @dadevike said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ dadevike said:
All good points . . . but I'm not too worried about kids who got into Yale. I'll bet they can all read at whatever level you'd like them to read and can all do college level math. The acceptance rate at Yale is around 5% and their applicants are unbelievably qualified.
If you want to talk about the below-average kids and those who get pushed along from one grade to the next regardless of achievement, fine. (If I were a high school teacher and you failed my basic H.S. class, I sure as hell would not want to see you back in my class the next year. I would hope you would be someone else's problem next year.) But to use Yale as the starting point for the failure of US education is quite the stretch.
If you got into Yale on your merits - not because your parents donated $50M or because your dad is George Herbert Walker Bush - it hardly matters if you got an A for doing B level (Yale level) work. These are among the top of all H.S. students in the country.
Just move past Yale, lol. Its just another example of this trend that's been going on for awhile now in public education (high school, college, etc.).
But keep in mind that a decent portion of students at Yale or other Ivy League schools are legacy, close to 16%. That means they'd have never gotten in otherwise. Another percentage are diversity inclusions, which also are allowed in on lower standards. So yes, Ivy League schools are very good, but they also are not exactly what they are cracked up to be either.
Yep, I mentioned legacies. (I decline your invitation to take a swipe at diversity.) I'm just not convinced we have a problem at the elite schools, even with the grade inflation. These colleges are competing against each other for the best students (in the world). How are they going to do that? Certainly not by lowering tuition. And what's the point of offering merit scholarships when everyone would qualify for them? So they compete with grades. If you go to Yale or Harvard or Brown and work hard, with the talent required to get into those schools, you will get an A. We all know it's not just Yale. And that's the point: we all know. If you are interviewing a Harvard grad with a 3.4 GPA, there is probably a good reason why his GPA is "so low." And that reason is he is likely lazy or immature. Whatever his issue, it is likely not a lack of brains.
But that isn't the point, the point is that standards are being lowered. Doesn't matter if its Ivy League or junior high school.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ dadevike said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ dadevike said:
All good points . . . but I'm not too worried about kids who got into Yale. I'll bet they can all read at whatever level you'd like them to read and can all do college level math. The acceptance rate at Yale is around 5% and their applicants are unbelievably qualified.
If you want to talk about the below-average kids and those who get pushed along from one grade to the next regardless of achievement, fine. (If I were a high school teacher and you failed my basic H.S. class, I sure as hell would not want to see you back in my class the next year. I would hope you would be someone else's problem next year.) But to use Yale as the starting point for the failure of US education is quite the stretch.
If you got into Yale on your merits - not because your parents donated $50M or because your dad is George Herbert Walker Bush - it hardly matters if you got an A for doing B level (Yale level) work. These are among the top of all H.S. students in the country.
Just move past Yale, lol. Its just another example of this trend that's been going on for awhile now in public education (high school, college, etc.).
But keep in mind that a decent portion of students at Yale or other Ivy League schools are legacy, close to 16%. That means they'd have never gotten in otherwise. Another percentage are diversity inclusions, which also are allowed in on lower standards. So yes, Ivy League schools are very good, but they also are not exactly what they are cracked up to be either.
Yep, I mentioned legacies. (I decline your invitation to take a swipe at diversity.) I'm just not convinced we have a problem at the elite schools, even with the grade inflation. These colleges are competing against each other for the best students (in the world). How are they going to do that? Certainly not by lowering tuition. And what's the point of offering merit scholarships when everyone would qualify for them? So they compete with grades. If you go to Yale or Harvard or Brown and work hard, with the talent required to get into those schools, you will get an A. We all know it's not just Yale. And that's the point: we all know. If you are interviewing a Harvard grad with a 3.4 GPA, there is probably a good reason why his GPA is "so low." And that reason is he is likely lazy or immature. Whatever his issue, it is likely not a lack of brains.
But that isn't the point, the point is that standards are being lowered. Doesn't matter if its Ivy League or junior high school.
What standards? Are you suggesting that Yale and Stanford grads are not as good as they once were? I know of no evidence for that at all. In fact, I would argue the opposite. The competition to get in is so much more intense now. You believe it is a significant problem that, whereas 30 years ago there were X students graduating Harvard with an A GPA and now there are 1.5X students graduating with an A GPA? Maybe today it is harder to identify the truly brilliant from the very talented based just on GPA alone. I have a list of about 4 million problems more serious than that. And I'll bet some of today's "non-deserving" A Yale students are better than some of the A Yale student from back in the pristine days when everything was decided on merit (a time that has never existed).
Quote: @dadevike said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ dadevike said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ dadevike said:
All good points . . . but I'm not too worried about kids who got into Yale. I'll bet they can all read at whatever level you'd like them to read and can all do college level math. The acceptance rate at Yale is around 5% and their applicants are unbelievably qualified.
If you want to talk about the below-average kids and those who get pushed along from one grade to the next regardless of achievement, fine. (If I were a high school teacher and you failed my basic H.S. class, I sure as hell would not want to see you back in my class the next year. I would hope you would be someone else's problem next year.) But to use Yale as the starting point for the failure of US education is quite the stretch.
If you got into Yale on your merits - not because your parents donated $50M or because your dad is George Herbert Walker Bush - it hardly matters if you got an A for doing B level (Yale level) work. These are among the top of all H.S. students in the country.
Just move past Yale, lol. Its just another example of this trend that's been going on for awhile now in public education (high school, college, etc.).
But keep in mind that a decent portion of students at Yale or other Ivy League schools are legacy, close to 16%. That means they'd have never gotten in otherwise. Another percentage are diversity inclusions, which also are allowed in on lower standards. So yes, Ivy League schools are very good, but they also are not exactly what they are cracked up to be either.
Yep, I mentioned legacies. (I decline your invitation to take a swipe at diversity.) I'm just not convinced we have a problem at the elite schools, even with the grade inflation. These colleges are competing against each other for the best students (in the world). How are they going to do that? Certainly not by lowering tuition. And what's the point of offering merit scholarships when everyone would qualify for them? So they compete with grades. If you go to Yale or Harvard or Brown and work hard, with the talent required to get into those schools, you will get an A. We all know it's not just Yale. And that's the point: we all know. If you are interviewing a Harvard grad with a 3.4 GPA, there is probably a good reason why his GPA is "so low." And that reason is he is likely lazy or immature. Whatever his issue, it is likely not a lack of brains.
But that isn't the point, the point is that standards are being lowered. Doesn't matter if its Ivy League or junior high school.
What standards? Are you suggesting that Yale and Stanford grads are not as good as they once were? I know of no evidence for that at all. In fact, I would argue the opposite. The competition to get in is so much more intense now. You believe it is a significant problem that, whereas 30 years ago there were X students graduating Harvard with an A GPA and now there are 1.5X students graduating with an A GPA? Maybe today it is harder to identify the truly brilliant from the very talented based just on GPA alone. I have a list of about 4 million problems more serious than that. And I'll bet some of today's "non-deserving" A Yale students are better than some of the A Yale student from back in the pristine days when everything was decided on merit (a time that has never existed).
100% completely and utterly disagree with this take. We'll agree to disagree.
I think most all unbiased employers will tell you that graduates these days are less prepared for their chosen fields than 30 years ago....less prepared and in significantly more debt, definitely a broken system.
Our public high school systems turning out a lower educated graduate, in sure our joke of a university system is not making up that ground.
Last summer, my 20 yr. old grandson and I were repairing my daughter's deck (his mother) replacing some boards and railings. I handed my grandson a tape measure and asked him to measure out some lengths. He told me he didn't know how to read a tape measure. I said, "Seriously, I have a 20 yr. old high school graduate grandson attending college on an academic scholarship and you can't read a goddamn tape measure?".
Things like this when I grew up learning such as construction, wiring, plumbing and auto repairs. Todays' kids are lost in my opinion. Now ask them something they can figure out on their cellphone or computer and you have a genius.
Quote: @ArizonaViking said:
Last summer, my 20 yr. old grandson and I were repairing my daughter's deck (his mother) replacing some boards and railings. I handed my grandson a tape measure and asked him to measure out some lengths. He told me he didn't know how to read a tape measure. I said, "Seriously, I have a 20 yr. old high school graduate grandson attending college on an academic scholarship and you can't read a goddamn tape measure?".
Things like this when I grew up learning such as construction, wiring, plumbing and auto repairs. Todays' kids are lost in my opinion. Now ask them something they can figure out on their cellphone or computer and you have a genius.
Give him one with a digital readout. It's like slide-rules and vernier calipers, it's not what you use, it's getting done what you need to. I used a HP 11C in school and really depended on RPN with three registers, similar to programing in machine code. Kept it on my desk for years and got a charge out of handing it to someone that asked to use my calculator. I have a 32S and a 35s now, how many know what RPN is?
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