My nephew is in Med School - upstate NY. Residency in NYC. I just shake my head at the stories I'm already hearing about the system, quality of care, what the dr's are asked to spend time on besides saving lives.
ugh...
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Vikefever said:
I have not seen this discussed much. The actual cost of health care. A friend of the family had a heart issue, not a heart attack, but constricted artery's. The hospital brought in Mercy flight for a 50 mile trip, $38,000 dollar bill. Maybe $20,000 covered under insurance. That is not right. They where not told of the cost. The copter sat on the pad for over hour and half (I work at airport) before it left. My question, are the hospitals charging out the nose because a certain percentage cannot pay or have the hospitals and insurance company's figured out a way to legitimized a $50 dollar aspirin. I feel we are all being hoodwinked by the providers and insurance company's.
It's a racket from top to near the bottom. The ones that do most of the work (NURSES) don't get paid shit for the job they have considering how much the industry charges. And there are a lot of people that think you shouldn't have to buy insurance till you need it, the concept of a shared risk pool is beyond any comprehension for some. I am sixty + and have been paying for insurance for over 40 years, and not had a major cost. Now some azhats want me to come up with a six figure HSA account to cover high deductible low premium policy with max amounts on coverage.
Nixon started this Kabuki theater, with Kaiser-Permanenti , and Reagan finished it with supply side creative market trading of insurance equities. Converting the companies premium based assets to investor paying dividend cash cows. Yeah its F**** up but every other country has it figured out, we must be waiting for just the right exceptional plan.
Quote: @BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Vikefever said:
I have not seen this discussed much. The actual cost of health care. A friend of the family had a heart issue, not a heart attack, but constricted artery's. The hospital brought in Mercy flight for a 50 mile trip, $38,000 dollar bill. Maybe $20,000 covered under insurance. That is not right. They where not told of the cost. The copter sat on the pad for over hour and half (I work at airport) before it left. My question, are the hospitals charging out the nose because a certain percentage cannot pay or have the hospitals and insurance company's figured out a way to legitimized a $50 dollar aspirin. I feel we are all being hoodwinked by the providers and insurance company's.
It's a racket from top to near the bottom. The ones that do most of the work (NURSES) don't get paid shit for the job they have considering how much the industry charges. And there are a lot of people that think you shouldn't have to buy insurance till you need it, the concept of a shared risk pool is beyond any comprehension for some. I am sixty + and have been paying for insurance for over 40 years, and not had a major cost. Now some azhats want me to come up with a six figure HSA account to cover high deductible low premium policy with max amounts on coverage.
Nixon started this Kabuki theater, with Kaiser-Permanenti , and Reagan finished it with supply side creative market trading of insurance equities. Converting the companies premium based assets to investor paying dividend cash cows. Yeah its F**** up but every other country has it figured out, we must be waiting for just the right exceptional plan.
As long as the pool is of people of similar risk. Why the hell should I cover a 2 pack a day guys Habit? Or those people that have a shit diet and run to the doctor for every runny Nose? Screw that. The more you use it the more you should pay in premiums and those that don't shouldn't be punished.
I started my own personal health savings account when I was 21, the more I had in it the higher we raised our deductibles and used the lower premiums to add to the HSA. We were pretty set until somebody else decided that our good planning should be punished.
I have compassion, I really do, but the old system worked better for me and most people I know. The working middle class is taking it in the ass right now and that isn't right either.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Why can’t the Senate repeal Obamacare? Because its policies are actually popular.
...90 percent of Democrats and 82 percent of Republicans supported allowing young adults to stay on their parents’ insurance until age 26; 89 percent of Democrats and 77 percent of Republicans approved the elimination of out-of-pocket expenses for many preventive services; 91 percent and 67 percent wanted subsidies for low- and middle-income Americans to purchase insurance; 90 percent of Democrats and 67 percent of Republicans support the Medicaid expansion; 75 percent and 63 percent wanted to prohibit insurance companies from denying coverage because of one’s medical history; and 82 percent of Democrats and 63 percent of Republicans support increasing the Medicare payroll tax on earnings for upper-income Americans...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/07/19/why-cant-the-senate-repeal-obamacare-because-its-actual-policies-are-popular/?utm_term=.901cb1c875d9
Most people are in favor of a lot of shit until they find out they might have to pay for it. It's all good spending if it doesn't raise my taxes.
Why are you so afraid of raised taxes? I would happily pay an additional 10 to 20% extra if I knew it would help pay for the healthcare costs of the poor. Even more if necessary. Have we stumbled upon the difference between left and right? Is this why Ghandi famously said: " I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." I think so.
I wonder what Ghandi thought about Mohammed and/or Muslims.
What despicable people Christians are. Like the nuns who don't want to assist in the taking of a baby's life. or Christians that don't want to pay for it.
I wonder what Ghandi would say about liberals.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Why can’t the Senate repeal Obamacare? Because its policies are actually popular.
...90 percent of Democrats and 82 percent of Republicans supported allowing young adults to stay on their parents’ insurance until age 26; 89 percent of Democrats and 77 percent of Republicans approved the elimination of out-of-pocket expenses for many preventive services; 91 percent and 67 percent wanted subsidies for low- and middle-income Americans to purchase insurance; 90 percent of Democrats and 67 percent of Republicans support the Medicaid expansion; 75 percent and 63 percent wanted to prohibit insurance companies from denying coverage because of one’s medical history; and 82 percent of Democrats and 63 percent of Republicans support increasing the Medicare payroll tax on earnings for upper-income Americans...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/07/19/why-cant-the-senate-repeal-obamacare-because-its-actual-policies-are-popular/?utm_term=.901cb1c875d9
Most people are in favor of a lot of shit until they find out they might have to pay for it. It's all good spending if it doesn't raise my taxes.
Why are you so afraid of raised taxes? I would happily pay an additional 10 to 20% extra if I knew it would help pay for the healthcare costs of the poor. Even more if necessary. Have we stumbled upon the difference between left and right? Is this why Ghandi famously said: " I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." I think so.
Why the fuck do you think, because I already pay a lot in taxes and I don't agree with much of how they spend it.
If you are feeling generous you are free to give as much as you want. Why do you think I need to fund your pet Projects?
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
Why can’t the Senate repeal Obamacare? Because its policies are actually popular.
...90 percent of Democrats and 82 percent of Republicans supported allowing young adults to stay on their parents’ insurance until age 26; 89 percent of Democrats and 77 percent of Republicans approved the elimination of out-of-pocket expenses for many preventive services; 91 percent and 67 percent wanted subsidies for low- and middle-income Americans to purchase insurance; 90 percent of Democrats and 67 percent of Republicans support the Medicaid expansion; 75 percent and 63 percent wanted to prohibit insurance companies from denying coverage because of one’s medical history; and 82 percent of Democrats and 63 percent of Republicans support increasing the Medicare payroll tax on earnings for upper-income Americans...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/07/19/why-cant-the-senate-repeal-obamacare-because-its-actual-policies-are-popular/?utm_term=.901cb1c875d9
Most people are in favor of a lot of shit until they find out they might have to pay for it. It's all good spending if it doesn't raise my taxes.
Why are you so afraid of raised taxes? I would happily pay an additional 10 to 20% extra if I knew it would help pay for the healthcare costs of the poor. Even more if necessary. Have we stumbled upon the difference between left and right? Is this why Ghandi famously said: " I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." I think so.
Why the fuck do you think, because I already pay a lot in taxes and I don't agree with much of how they spend it.
If you are feeling generous you are free to give as much as you want. Why do you think I need to fund your pet Projects?
This is a warning. Continuation if this behavior will result in a temporary ban.
:devil:
So what is stopping all the people who want to be taxed more from giving more at tax time? I would assume if you truly believe in your cause you give everything you can to the government and live below your means the rest of the time. After all, it's all about helping the poor right? So why aren't people doing that? Put your earned money where your beliefs are said to be and do it.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ BigAl99 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Vikefever said:
I have not seen this discussed much. The actual cost of health care. A friend of the family had a heart issue, not a heart attack, but constricted artery's. The hospital brought in Mercy flight for a 50 mile trip, $38,000 dollar bill. Maybe $20,000 covered under insurance. That is not right. They where not told of the cost. The copter sat on the pad for over hour and half (I work at airport) before it left. My question, are the hospitals charging out the nose because a certain percentage cannot pay or have the hospitals and insurance company's figured out a way to legitimized a $50 dollar aspirin. I feel we are all being hoodwinked by the providers and insurance company's.
It's a racket from top to near the bottom. The ones that do most of the work (NURSES) don't get paid shit for the job they have considering how much the industry charges. And there are a lot of people that think you shouldn't have to buy insurance till you need it, the concept of a shared risk pool is beyond any comprehension for some. I am sixty + and have been paying for insurance for over 40 years, and not had a major cost. Now some azhats want me to come up with a six figure HSA account to cover high deductible low premium policy with max amounts on coverage.
Nixon started this Kabuki theater, with Kaiser-Permanenti , and Reagan finished it with supply side creative market trading of insurance equities. Converting the companies premium based assets to investor paying dividend cash cows. Yeah its F**** up but every other country has it figured out, we must be waiting for just the right exceptional plan.
As long as the pool is of people of similar risk. Why the hell should I cover a 2 pack a day guys Habit? Or those people that have a shit diet and run to the doctor for every runny Nose? Screw that. The more you use it the more you should pay in premiums and those that don't shouldn't be punished.
I started my own personal health savings account when I was 21, the more I had in it the higher we raised our deductibles and used the lower premiums to add to the HSA. We were pretty set until somebody else decided that our good planning should be punished.
I have compassion, I really do, but the old system worked better for me and most people I know. The working middle class is taking it in the ass right now and that isn't right either.
That is what kills markets for insurance companies, "risks of adverse selection".
Here is something from the AMA that give some history of commercial insurers in the US ( Blue Cross and Blue Shield) and the origin of employer subsidized health care( WW2 and wage controls), no opinion just historical facts.
http://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/2008...-0805.html
Quote: @Bolstad79 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Vikeshrink said:
@ badgervike said:
I know the Republicans and Trump ran on repealing and replacing but the reality is that it's almost impossible to take away entitlements...particularly given the liberal bent of the MSM. How many articles have been written about loss of coverage and how many people would DIE because of the potential replacement bills. The ACA is in a death spiral with coverage options going away and costs spiraling. As that spiral continues this year, those issues will become even more profound. Some early projections for 2018 include total loss of coverage in some areas and increases in costs by 100% or more. This has been pure political theatre...any fair minded individual will tell you the ACA is a bad piece of legislation with its coverage mandates and total lack of cost reduction and options in the bill. My personal opinion is that it is a law that was always intended to fail....
Access to quality, affordable healthcare is not an
entitlement, it’s essential for human dignity and is necessary to promote the
general welfare for you, me and all of our fellow citizens.
If the ACA fails it will be due to two things (in my view). The first is because as you point out, it failed to address the cost of healthcare (which is unbelievably out of control). The second would be due to the refusal by red states to participate--a strategy, by the way that was both brilliant and corrupt on the Republican's part.
1) Refuse to participate in the design, development and rollout,
2) Bemoan it's shortcomings to your voters to undermine the credibility of the program so as to
3) Drive down consumer participation to make it insolvent.
4) Point to the outcome that you helped create as proof that it wasn't going to work anyway.
The results in the blue states make me damn grateful that my red state abstained. I feel sorry for Minnesotans and what the ACA has done to their health care costs.
As far as dignity...where's the dignity in getting unearned things off the hard work of others?
Please don't worry about us Minnesotans, I honestly wish states had more control with issues like this.
Agreed. Minnesota is doing just fine thank you very much. I have no problem contributing to others getting access to healthcare. The health of the nation is dependent on the health of the people. Some people argue that they don't like paying towards education because they don't have kids. Personally, I would rather have less stupid people around. Some people argue against social programs or the amount of defense spending. We definitely need to address the overcharging of insurance, hospitals and big pharma. Also out ranking in healthcare versus cost because as a nation we are lower than we should be.
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