Quote: @Zanary said:
@ medaille said:
Just out of curiosity, do you guys think Israel would be
able to maintain it's affluence/existence existence if we stopped giving them billions of dollars in aid
and removed our military presence from the middle east? At some point we have to stop subsidizing
them so heavily, right? Are they self-sufficient yet?
Thinking geographically, Israel is tiny and is literally surrounded by massive neighbors who, at various points, have all tried to destroy it. Constantly surviving that kind of viciousness from all angles while outnumbered 100-1 by the kind of hatred that comes from literally millenia of habit?
Not initially...BUT:
If Israel were prone/allowed to keep anything they kept in battle...and has already proven that it can be a VERY bustling/successful country in terms of technology, agriculture, industry, etc...imagine if Israel decided to keep all the ground it technically could have, at various points...!
The country would be at least 2-3 times its current size, and like now, the Arabs/Muslims in the area would have the choice of holding onto ridiculous prejudices from eons ago, or having real lives and careers in the modern world.
So, here's the flip question: why hasn't Hamas spent the billions that go into Gaza each year to help lift their people from the "open air prison conditions", despite capabilities to do so?
They can afford billionaire leadership in luxury housing out of country...so....?
I was thinking about this the other day, how to make it work, and I realized that we have that situation in this country and it hasnt worked out so well, 150 years later we still have the people on reservations that are living in 3rd world conditions, despite billions annually pumped into those efforts..... Maybe the US shouldnt be part of the solution.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Zanary said:
@ medaille said:
Just out of curiosity, do you guys think Israel would be
able to maintain it's affluence/existence existence if we stopped giving them billions of dollars in aid
and removed our military presence from the middle east? At some point we have to stop subsidizing
them so heavily, right? Are they self-sufficient yet?
Thinking geographically, Israel is tiny and is literally surrounded by massive neighbors who, at various points, have all tried to destroy it. Constantly surviving that kind of viciousness from all angles while outnumbered 100-1 by the kind of hatred that comes from literally millenia of habit?
Not initially...BUT:
If Israel were prone/allowed to keep anything they kept in battle...and has already proven that it can be a VERY bustling/successful country in terms of technology, agriculture, industry, etc...imagine if Israel decided to keep all the ground it technically could have, at various points...!
The country would be at least 2-3 times its current size, and like now, the Arabs/Muslims in the area would have the choice of holding onto ridiculous prejudices from eons ago, or having real lives and careers in the modern world.
So, here's the flip question: why hasn't Hamas spent the billions that go into Gaza each year to help lift their people from the "open air prison conditions", despite capabilities to do so?
They can afford billionaire leadership in luxury housing out of country...so....?
I was thinking about this the other day, how to make it work, and I realized that we have that situation in this country and it hasnt worked out so well, 150 years later we still have the people on reservations that are living in 3rd world conditions, despite billions annually pumped into those efforts..... Maybe the US shouldnt be part of the solution.
That's a similarly tweaked question, though happily (gratefully) without current terrorist and/or internal warfare involved.
One thing that is a horrifying parallel is that even with aid, or grants, or even zillions in casino $$...tradition, corruption, and just plain piss-poor management are among the issues involved.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/sto...i-protests
I wonder how many of those in attendance have any sort of facts behind their opinions, or are they still enraged that Israel bombed a hospital full of innocent civilians, or other lies that our media repeats from the Hamas propaganda press releases? Or maybe its that they just dont care and are anti-Semitic bigots, I am guessing its more likely the later.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/sto...i-protests
I wonder how many of those in attendance have any sort of facts behind their opinions, or are they still enraged that Israel bombed a hospital full of innocent civilians, or other lies that our media repeats from the Hamas propaganda press releases? Or maybe its that they just dont care and are anti-Semitic bigots, I am guessing its more likely the later.
What's amazing to me...in a terrible way...is that Hamas' governance of Gaza is a complete nothing-burger to the conversation. Billions in aid and revenue go into Gaza, but despite reports of the region being run oppressively for many years, it's easier to just blame Israel for everything.
None of the coached hatred, none of the squandered resources (apparently spent on tunneling and missiles), none of the admissions of violence in their intentions...none of that is seemingly acknowledged by the pro-Palestine crowd.
Quote: @Zanary said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/sto...i-protests
I wonder how many of those in attendance have any sort of facts behind their opinions, or are they still enraged that Israel bombed a hospital full of innocent civilians, or other lies that our media repeats from the Hamas propaganda press releases? Or maybe its that they just dont care and are anti-Semitic bigots, I am guessing its more likely the later.
What's amazing to me...in a terrible way...is that Hamas' governance of Gaza is a complete nothing-burger to the conversation. Billions in aid and revenue go into Gaza, but despite reports of the region being run oppressively for many years, it's easier to just blame Israel for everything.
None of the coached hatred, none of the squandered resources (apparently spent on tunneling and missiles), none of the admissions of violence in their intentions...none of that is seemingly acknowledged by the pro-Palestine crowd.
excellent point, perhaps that would lead to deeper dives into funding sources and reveal things that some people dont want revealed. there is nothing natural about this pro palestinian movement, just as there wasnt anything natural about the Floyd protests, or the J6 shit, people and events are being moved around by an unseen hand, much like pieces on a chess board. Maybe some day we will all realize that we werent supposed to be playing checkers on election day.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Zanary said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/sto...i-protests
I wonder how many of those in attendance have any sort of facts behind their opinions, or are they still enraged that Israel bombed a hospital full of innocent civilians, or other lies that our media repeats from the Hamas propaganda press releases? Or maybe its that they just dont care and are anti-Semitic bigots, I am guessing its more likely the later.
What's amazing to me...in a terrible way...is that Hamas' governance of Gaza is a complete nothing-burger to the conversation. Billions in aid and revenue go into Gaza, but despite reports of the region being run oppressively for many years, it's easier to just blame Israel for everything.
None of the coached hatred, none of the squandered resources (apparently spent on tunneling and missiles), none of the admissions of violence in their intentions...none of that is seemingly acknowledged by the pro-Palestine crowd.
excellent point, perhaps that would lead to deeper dives into funding sources and reveal things that some people dont want revealed. there is nothing natural about this pro palestinian movement, just as there wasnt anything natural about the Floyd protests, or the J6 shit, people and events are being moved around by an unseen hand, much like pieces on a chess board. Maybe some day we will all realize that we werent supposed to be playing checkers on election day.
Sadly, as long as voters keep enabling the two "main" treason clubs, it's like they're playing Chinese Checkers by seeing how many of the marbles fit up their noses.
I don't even feel like that's an overstatement, at this point.
Quote: @Zanary said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Zanary said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/sto...i-protests
I wonder how many of those in attendance have any sort of facts behind their opinions, or are they still enraged that Israel bombed a hospital full of innocent civilians, or other lies that our media repeats from the Hamas propaganda press releases? Or maybe its that they just dont care and are anti-Semitic bigots, I am guessing its more likely the later.
What's amazing to me...in a terrible way...is that Hamas' governance of Gaza is a complete nothing-burger to the conversation. Billions in aid and revenue go into Gaza, but despite reports of the region being run oppressively for many years, it's easier to just blame Israel for everything.
None of the coached hatred, none of the squandered resources (apparently spent on tunneling and missiles), none of the admissions of violence in their intentions...none of that is seemingly acknowledged by the pro-Palestine crowd.
excellent point, perhaps that would lead to deeper dives into funding sources and reveal things that some people dont want revealed. there is nothing natural about this pro palestinian movement, just as there wasnt anything natural about the Floyd protests, or the J6 shit, people and events are being moved around by an unseen hand, much like pieces on a chess board. Maybe some day we will all realize that we werent supposed to be playing checkers on election day.
Sadly, as long as voters keep enabling the two "main" treason clubs, it's like they're playing Chinese Checkers by seeing how many of the marbles fit up their noses.
I don't even feel like that's an overstatement, at this point.
I dont see a problem with a 2 party system, as long as the voters educate themselves and get rid of the problems in the primaries , so we keep the targets moving and don't let the hierarchy of either party get a foothold where they can control things like who gets on ballots, who gets on the debates. The only way the people take back the power is by voting to remove the old school party people amd make it a lot harder for corruption to control our elected officials.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Zanary said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/sto...i-protests
I wonder how many of those in attendance have any sort of facts behind their opinions, or are they still enraged that Israel bombed a hospital full of innocent civilians, or other lies that our media repeats from the Hamas propaganda press releases? Or maybe its that they just dont care and are anti-Semitic bigots, I am guessing its more likely the later.
What's amazing to me...in a terrible way...is that Hamas' governance of Gaza is a complete nothing-burger to the conversation. Billions in aid and revenue go into Gaza, but despite reports of the region being run oppressively for many years, it's easier to just blame Israel for everything.
None of the coached hatred, none of the squandered resources (apparently spent on tunneling and missiles), none of the admissions of violence in their intentions...none of that is seemingly acknowledged by the pro-Palestine crowd.
excellent point, perhaps that would lead to deeper dives into funding sources and reveal things that some people dont want revealed. there is nothing natural about this pro palestinian movement, just as there wasnt anything natural about the Floyd protests, or the J6 shit, people and events are being moved around by an unseen hand, much like pieces on a chess board. Maybe some day we will all realize that we werent supposed to be playing checkers on election day.
It’s a little bit unfair to say that there’s
nothing natural about those protests. I
think it would be more accurate to say that:
- The establishment definitely pushes and
pulls on people to put them into tribes to get them to fight each other and
ignore the establishment where it threatens them.
- Each side has truth that they can point
to and each side has falsehoods that they believe or strawmen that the
other side can point at.
- People can be protesting things that are
true and should be protested with or without realizing that they are
playing a role given to them by the establishment.
- The establishment gets some people riled
up and then points at them and says look at all the crazy people over
there, don’t be like them, criticize the people that are critical of the
government.
I think that we
should definitely be upset with the way our government acts. I would argue that for a long, long time, our
government has pretended to be the protector of democracy, but in reality we
have sent our men to battle to die for the profit of the corporations and
people that have bought our government. At
this point I support almost all protests and viewpoints that are aimed at
holding the government accountable towards serving us. I don’t support protests and viewpoints that
are aimed at other citizens. Ultimately
protests don’t do that much, as politicians do the acting, but at some point we
need to communicate with our politicians to act correctly, and I don’t feel the
need to judge other people if that is the method they choose of communicating.
Quote: @medaille said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Zanary said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/sto...i-protests
I wonder how many of those in attendance have any sort of facts behind their opinions, or are they still enraged that Israel bombed a hospital full of innocent civilians, or other lies that our media repeats from the Hamas propaganda press releases? Or maybe its that they just dont care and are anti-Semitic bigots, I am guessing its more likely the later.
What's amazing to me...in a terrible way...is that Hamas' governance of Gaza is a complete nothing-burger to the conversation. Billions in aid and revenue go into Gaza, but despite reports of the region being run oppressively for many years, it's easier to just blame Israel for everything.
None of the coached hatred, none of the squandered resources (apparently spent on tunneling and missiles), none of the admissions of violence in their intentions...none of that is seemingly acknowledged by the pro-Palestine crowd.
excellent point, perhaps that would lead to deeper dives into funding sources and reveal things that some people dont want revealed. there is nothing natural about this pro palestinian movement, just as there wasnt anything natural about the Floyd protests, or the J6 shit, people and events are being moved around by an unseen hand, much like pieces on a chess board. Maybe some day we will all realize that we werent supposed to be playing checkers on election day.
It’s a little bit unfair to say that there’s
nothing natural about those protests. I
think it would be more accurate to say that:
- The establishment definitely pushes and
pulls on people to put them into tribes to get them to fight each other and
ignore the establishment where it threatens them.
- Each side has truth that they can point
to and each side has falsehoods that they believe or strawmen that the
other side can point at.
- People can be protesting things that are
true and should be protested with or without realizing that they are
playing a role given to them by the establishment.
- The establishment gets some people riled
up and then points at them and says look at all the crazy people over
there, don’t be like them, criticize the people that are critical of the
government.
I think that we
should definitely be upset with the way our government acts. I would argue that for a long, long time, our
government has pretended to be the protector of democracy, but in reality we
have sent our men to battle to die for the profit of the corporations and
people that have bought our government. At
this point I support almost all protests and viewpoints that are aimed at
holding the government accountable towards serving us. I don’t support protests and viewpoints that
are aimed at other citizens. Ultimately
protests don’t do that much, as politicians do the acting, but at some point we
need to communicate with our politicians to act correctly, and I don’t feel the
need to judge other people if that is the method they choose of communicating.
What i find unnatural are stagged weapons like piles of bricks being placed hours ahead , paid protesters being bussed into locations, people out protesting without even really know the story or facts of their "cause", or govt agents actually mixed in and taking inflammatory roles as has been alleged and shown in pictures. I dont think all protesters are unnatural, but I think protests are being used by some outside force to tear down our society and their root origin may be in truth, but the people and the sizes if the cause are cultured for a cause, and its not of pure intent in most cases IMO.
Kind of like how waves of illegals amass at our southern border at opportune times, it happens to often to be a coincidence, fucking political theater is all this shit is, a fabricated story to make us lose focus on what's really going on. I dont care what color tie or pants suit they are wearing, they all need to be changed out more often and return accountability to our government.
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