Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/20...biden-gaza
There will be repercussions here in the U.S. because of our support of Israel slaughtering innocent people. There will be terrorism on our soil because of it unfortunately. I hate to even say that, but I think its going to happen at some point. This is a very complicated issue, but murdering civilians can't be the answer. It can't be.
The US people wont stand behind Israel very long if its confirmed that their retaliation offensive is being just as mind numbingly brutal as the terrorists that they supposedly are targeting.
Actually, yes they will. At least many American jews. Some view any retaliation, and I mean including genocide, as righteous retribution. Have you seen the Jon Stewart video? In NYC, you can't even begin to have a conversation about the situation, they'll shout you down. There is NO discussion about Israel. NONE.
They represent less than 3% of the American American population, they will have a voice, but it won't ring as loud as they want IMO. Its a well represented 3%, but 3% none the less.
Pretty sure I saw that Stewart clip quite a while ago, did they revive it? Not surprised about NYC, but at some point one party or the other will start to back pedal and then it will become a political hand grenade.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ StickyBun said:
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/20...biden-gaza
There will be repercussions here in the U.S. because of our support of Israel slaughtering innocent people. There will be terrorism on our soil because of it unfortunately. I hate to even say that, but I think its going to happen at some point. This is a very complicated issue, but murdering civilians can't be the answer. It can't be.
The US people wont stand behind Israel very long if its confirmed that their retaliation offensive is being just as mind numbingly brutal as the terrorists that they supposedly are targeting.
Actually, yes they will. At least many American jews. Some view any retaliation, and I mean including genocide, as righteous retribution. Have you seen the Jon Stewart video? In NYC, you can't even begin to have a conversation about the situation, they'll shout you down. There is NO discussion about Israel. NONE.
They represent less than 3% of the American American population, they will have a voice, but it won't ring as loud as they want IMO. Its a well represented 3%, but 3% none the less.
Pretty sure I saw that Stewart clip quite a while ago, did they revive it? Not surprised about NYC, but at some point one party or the other will start to back pedal and then it will become a political hand grenade.
I liked Stewart and the Daily Show A LOT back in the day, but when he and his disciples all got completely partisan, it may as well have been a comic troupe hosted by The Nation.
I'd rather see a "Loathe Child" parented by Carlson and Maddow (which I figure would have 12 heads and try to strangle itself with the umbilical cord).
I agree that there's basically no discourse right now, but treating it as an American thing? Ignorant. The arguments are snarling messes worldwide, and the Irish in particular are being loud and accusatory as hell. Go figure, they forgive the side most fond of IEDs and similar devices. Yes, I know that North Ireland and Ireland aren't the same...mostly.
News flash: this mess is far more than 75 years old, and the sheer waves of hypocrisy are and will be stunning. Iran and Saudi demanding a ceasefire as their own skirmishes have been killing innocents for years...and they've given precisely zer f**ks...is, well, typical Middle East Theater.
Quote: @Zanary said:
@ medaille said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Zanary said:
I blame Bibi for consolidating power to the point that he doesn't even want to be answerable to Israel's courts. He needs to be stopped, ASAFP, and that can mean whatever it means. If he wants to act like Putin, I want him gone like I want Putin gone. Now.
That said...essentially every news source on my feed today talked about Hamas wanting "permanent war" and essentially wanting to pull entire the Middle East into this mess. Hamas is more than happy to involve oceans of blood and mountains of bodies from all around in their horrid crusade.
This sickness is hitting a new low.
I kind of have a similar feeling in the Ukraine war. We need to see Putin and Zelensky gone, just as we need Hamas destroyed and new leadership for Israel. Of course, there is always the old saying about the devil you know.
You can’t destroy Hamas. We didn’t destroy the Nazi’s. they still exist. We didn’t destroy ISIS. They still exist. We didn’t destroy the Taliban. They still exist. We didn’t destroy the KKK. They still exist. We didn’t destroy the Bloods and the Crips. They still exist. People generally don’t just decide, “hey I’m
going to leave my family to blow up some people I don’t know”. They say, “Those people maintain the walls
that keep my people down. Those people
keep us poor. Those people steal our
houses and our land. It is a worthy
cause to sacrifice my life to ensure they can’t hurt more people.” The oppression that the Palestinians face is
the breeding ground for the violence they commit.
Israels only way out is to make regular Palestinian life
worth living again.
Except, as has been pointed out, the Palestinian Authority and less palatable entities with power in "Palestine" teach their children hatred and violence in their own school texts, TV shows, and other elements of their upbringing...while some of their elected and acknowledged "leadership" refuses to recognize Israel, pledges toward "permanent war" (Hamas, just this week), are puppets of Iran and just being used, and/or have utterly pledged themselves to true genocide against Jews/Israel...publicly.
So, again...taught in their school texts, and reinforced from many directions. I don't know that "Palestine" can exist without trying to destroy Israel...and why sponsor that?
I think a ton of people would argue that the same is true
but for Israel. Can Israel exist without
trying to destroy “Palestine”? They keep
killing Palestinians. They’ve certainly killed
more people and more innocent people than vice versa. They’re leadership is openly racist against
them. They’ve been stealing their land
for years. Should Israel “exist” if it
can’t play nice with it’s neighbors?
Could they even exist if we didn’t send them a ton of money every year
and back them with our military support?
Quote: @medaille said:
Except, as has been pointed out, the Palestinian Authority and less palatable entities with power in "Palestine" teach their children hatred and violence in their own school texts, TV shows, and other elements of their upbringing...while some of their elected and acknowledged "leadership" refuses to recognize Israel, pledges toward "permanent war" (Hamas, just this week), are puppets of Iran and just being used, and/or have utterly pledged themselves to true genocide against Jews/Israel...publicly.
So, again...taught in their school texts, and reinforced from many directions. I don't know that "Palestine" can exist without trying to destroy Israel...and why sponsor that?
I think a ton of people would argue that the same is true
but for Israel. Can Israel exist without
trying to destroy “Palestine”? They keep
killing Palestinians. They’ve certainly killed
more people and more innocent people than vice versa. They’re leadership is openly racist against
them. They’ve been stealing their land
for years. Should Israel “exist” if it
can’t play nice with it’s neighbors?
Could they even exist if we didn’t send them a ton of money every year
and back them with our military support?
How many Palestinian civilians have been killed preemptively in attacks from Israel with no legitimate military targets vs Palestinian attacks on civilians? What's amazing to me is the anger over the abject poverty in Gaza but nobody seems to be angry that the leaders of Hamas are now BILLIONAIRES living in luxury in Qatar after syphoning off aid while the people of Palestine suffer without basic necessities. Hamas purposely hides in heavily populated areas to ensure as much collateral civilian damage as possible. But...they're the good guys...right? It's never their fault. If Hamas were to surrender tomorrow...peace and (relative) prosperity would break out.
Quote: @badgervike said:
@ medaille said:
Except, as has been pointed out, the Palestinian Authority and less palatable entities with power in "Palestine" teach their children hatred and violence in their own school texts, TV shows, and other elements of their upbringing...while some of their elected and acknowledged "leadership" refuses to recognize Israel, pledges toward "permanent war" (Hamas, just this week), are puppets of Iran and just being used, and/or have utterly pledged themselves to true genocide against Jews/Israel...publicly.
So, again...taught in their school texts, and reinforced from many directions. I don't know that "Palestine" can exist without trying to destroy Israel...and why sponsor that?
I think a ton of people would argue that the same is true
but for Israel. Can Israel exist without
trying to destroy “Palestine”? They keep
killing Palestinians. They’ve certainly killed
more people and more innocent people than vice versa. They’re leadership is openly racist against
them. They’ve been stealing their land
for years. Should Israel “exist” if it
can’t play nice with it’s neighbors?
Could they even exist if we didn’t send them a ton of money every year
and back them with our military support?
How many Palestinian civilians have been killed preemptively in attacks from Israel with no legitimate military targets vs Palestinian attacks on civilians? What's amazing to me is the anger over the abject poverty in Gaza but nobody seems to be angry that the leaders of Hamas are now BILLIONAIRES living in luxury in Qatar after syphoning off aid while the people of Palestine suffer without basic necessities. Hamas purposely hides in heavily populated areas to ensure as much collateral civilian damage as possible. But...they're the good guys...right? It's never their fault. If Hamas were to surrender tomorrow...peace and (relative) prosperity would break out.
Literally no one thinks Hamas is the good guys.
Quote: @medaille said:
Literally no one thinks Hamas is the good guys.
Lots of excuses for them and propagandizing on their behalf including here. The Hamas reported death toll still includes the 500 killed in that direct strike on the the Gaza hospital...except the hospital is still there...and it wasn't an Israeli strike. Every media outlet still runs with the numbers. Lot's of calls immediately for a cease fire. Evidently, Hamas should be able to kill with impunity...because..well..you know... they're victims.
They're a terror group...plain and simple and any moral equivalency to Israel is nonsense as it would be making excuses for ISIS or the Taliban.
I dont see a solution for the Palestinians in Gaza short of Israel retaking the territory, rooting out the remaining terror cells, and then a massive UN backed effort to establish a Palestinian govt to run the country with autonomy being phased in as they become more established and able to keep new terror cells from taking hold..... even then I assume it would be horribly expensive and short lived.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
I dont see a solution for the Palestinians in Gaza short of Israel retaking the territory, rooting out the remaining terror cells, and then a massive UN backed effort to establish a Palestinian govt to run the country with autonomy being phased in as they become more established and able to keep new terror cells from taking hold..... even then I assume it would be horribly expensive and short lived.
I'd dearly love to agree, and mostly do...because the Palestinian Authority, Hamas, and Hezbollah all are determined to poison the region against Israel regardless what status things are at.
My problem is that the UN is utterly anti-Israel, and is as addicted to oil money as any stereotypical Texan billionaire in history. The math isn't difficult: appease...what, 15 million Jews worldwide vs. 1 billion Muslims...and many of them from countries brimming with petro-cash?
I trust the UN as far as I can throw US Bank field.
Quote: @Zanary said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I dont see a solution for the Palestinians in Gaza short of Israel retaking the territory, rooting out the remaining terror cells, and then a massive UN backed effort to establish a Palestinian govt to run the country with autonomy being phased in as they become more established and able to keep new terror cells from taking hold..... even then I assume it would be horribly expensive and short lived.
I'd dearly love to agree, and mostly do...because the Palestinian Authority, Hamas, and Hezbollah all are determined to poison the region against Israel regardless what status things are at.
My problem is that the UN is utterly anti-Israel, and is as addicted to oil money as any stereotypical Texan billionaire in history. The math isn't difficult: appease...what, 15 million Jews worldwide vs. 1 billion Muslims...and many of them from countries brimming with petro-cash?
I trust the UN as far as I can throw US Bank field.
I said UN because I can't get myself to suggest the US put our kids in harms way over seas anymore when our govt won't even protect our own borders and streets, but honestly I see Gaza as our next Iraq, we will end up with boots on the ground eventually in a peace keeper role IMO.
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