Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ greediron said:
The source aside, is there anyone on the left just a bit concerned about the weaponization of the DOJ? Or is it all justified because Trump and the pro-lifers are so hated?
I always am skeptical of moves like these even when they are made by leaders on the right, i.e DeSantis in Florida. One, because I value freedom and the rights our government is supposed to recognize. Two because the current party will not always be in power and these moves will be leveraged against the other side in the future.
I think going after an Ex Potus for undermining the democratic process and attempting to remain in power against the peoples will is well within bounds (and warranted).
Time to reprise "lock her up" to "lock him up"
So can you tell me what Trump has done wrong that wasn't done by Biden, Hillary and Obama?
As far as undermining the process, what about Hillary, Gore and others? Were they not undermining the will of the people?
And just to be clear for the few here that want to pounce on the word Trump, I am not a fan. Didn't vote for him the first time and probably wouldn't vote for him this time. He did some good things, made some really bad cabinet picks, lets his ego get in the way constantly and won't let go of a grudge. But I don't see questioning how many states didn't follow their own laws is undermining anything.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@ greediron said:
The source aside, is there anyone on the left just a bit concerned about the weaponization of the DOJ? Or is it all justified because Trump and the pro-lifers are so hated?
I always am skeptical of moves like these even when they are made by leaders on the right, i.e DeSantis in Florida. One, because I value freedom and the rights our government is supposed to recognize. Two because the current party will not always be in power and these moves will be leveraged against the other side in the future.
I think going after an Ex Potus for undermining the democratic process and attempting to remain in power against the peoples will is well within bounds (and warranted).
Time to reprise "lock her up" to "lock him up"
Morning Grid:
Before I jump in, I am interested in your opinion as to when the weaponization of the DOJ started?
Our government is built on a system of checks and balances and I believe this is the case in relation to criminal investigation originating from the DOJ.
- First, keep in mind that the Trump investigations are being conducted by a "special counsel." A special counsel is an attorney appointed to investigate, and possibly prosecute, a case in which the Justice Department perceives itself as having a conflict or where it’s deemed to be in the public interest to have someone outside the government come in and take responsibility for a matter. According to the Code of Federal Regulations, a special counsel must have “a reputation for integrity and impartial decisionmaking,” as well as “an informed understanding of the criminal law and Department of Justice policies.” The Justice Department also appointed a Special Counsel to review Biden's and Pence's retention of classified documents.
- Second, keep in mind that the current head of the FBI, Christopher Wray, is a republican and a member of the Federalist Society. He was nominated for the position by Trump.
- Third, before being indicted, the U.S. Constitution guarantees each citizen the right to a Federal Grand Jury proceeding that's findings will decide if any or all federal charges listed in a federal criminal complaint should move forward. This protection is found under the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution which specifies "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on presentment of a Grand Jury."
- Fourth, after being indicted, Trump may move for the assigned judge to dismiss the indictment. This can be on the basis of there is not enough evidence or if the alleged facts do not amount to a crime.
- Fifth, Trump is entitled to a trial by jury (or judge if he waives the jury).
- Sixth, Trump may appeal any adverse decision.
So, let's see how the checks and balances work. Weeks before then-Attorney General William Barr left office, he gave John Durham, then the top federal prosecutor in Connecticut, the title of special counsel to ensure that he could continue investigating the origins of the Russia probe under new Democratic Justice Department leadership. Durham said there wasn’t any political interference with his work by the Biden administration. He testified that Attorney General Merrick Garland, a Biden appointee, didn’t block any of his moves, didn’t reach out to discuss the probe, and didn’t meddle with the investigation. Durham said there was “substantial evidence” that the Russian government interfered in the 2016 election. He also said special counsel Robert Mueller was a “patriot” whom he had the “highest regard” for. After four years, Durham only secured one conviction against a low-level FBI lawyer for doctoring one email related to the surveillance of an ex-Trump campaign aide. Durham’s jury trials against a Hillary Clinton campaign lawyer and a source behind the Trump-Russia dossier both ended with acquittals last year.
Likewise, if you look at Robert Mueller's Russia investigation, he found that Trump's campaign did not coordinate with Russian interference. But, as a result of his investigation, he indicted 13 Russian nationals and three companies with using fraud and deceit to interfere in the 2016 election, creating hundreds of social media accounts that falsely appeared to be operated by Americans. On July 13, 2018, the Justice Department announced indictments in Mueller’s investigation against 12 Russian intelligence officers for hacking the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign. Paul Manafort and Rick Gates both pleaded guilty and/or found guilty of charges brought by Mueller. George Papadopoulos also pleaded guilty to lying. Michael Flynn pleaded guilty in Dec. 1, 2017, to lying to the FBI about his communications with a former Russian ambassador during the presidential transition. Alex van der Zwaan pleaded guilty on Feb. 20, 2018 to one charge of making false statements to the FBI. Richard Pinedo pleaded guilty to identity fraud on Feb. 12, 2018. Michael Cohen pleadeed guilty to falsely stating that he had never agreed to travel to Russia for the real estate deal and that he did not recall any contact with the Russian government about the project. Roger Stone was found guilty of obstruction of a congressional investigation, five counts of making false statements to Congress, and tampering with a witness.
So, I feel like the overall system works to protect the innocent.
Greed...
If someone doesnt fathom that what Trump did to remain in power was not just wrong, but historically wrong in epic proportions?
Then there is just no point in us dialoging about it.
I find it odd that the site lists Newsweek as "neutral", when they've sent me a ton of right-leaning story updates over the years.
Journalism, as a profession, leans left. If that's towards actual original-definition liberalism, that's actually excellent...because contrary to modern misuse of the term, that's very much just "you do you, as long as it doesn't affect/hurt others".
Y'know, like "small government GOP" claims they want to be (cough BS cough)
However, the left as we know it today, the power-mongering, media monopolizing, legislate-to-death and narrative annexing horror show that has resulted? It's potentially the worst political entity imaginable...and if you call them into account, you're a hater/racist/fascist/etc.
Unfortunately, the gop has spent generations bending over for their worst elements, and comes across as a pack of drooling dumbasses that are afraid of science, gays, books, knowledge, and thanks to MTG, "Jewish Space Lasers". I may never get over that. Also, the fact that Santos isn't already in a cell facing about 10,000 years in prison and zealots of a certain orange narcissist continue to insist that proven BS is fact, the party is splintered and basically crippled.
The two party system has been junk for a long time, but it's truly imperative to take it down.
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
Greed...
If someone doesnt fathom that what Trump did to remain in power was not just wrong, but historically wrong in epic proportions?
Then there is just no point in us dialoging about it.
I suppose if you truly believe what a lying media and major parts of the govt lied about to you since before Trump took office, that would be true. The problem is and has been that it’s a narrative and not what actually happened. So, your side acts self-righteous, when in fact you’re simply gullible and mis-informed, something Democrats have counted on for years.
Quote: @Zanary said:
I find it odd that the site lists Newsweek as "neutral", when they've sent me a ton of right-leaning story updates over the years.
Journalism, as a profession, leans left. If that's towards actual original-definition liberalism, that's actually excellent...because contrary to modern misuse of the term, that's very much just "you do you, as long as it doesn't affect/hurt others".
Y'know, like "small government GOP" claims they want to be (cough BS cough)
However, the left as we know it today, the power-mongering, media monopolizing, legislate-to-death and narrative annexing horror show that has resulted? It's potentially the worst political entity imaginable...and if you call them into account, you're a hater/racist/fascist/etc.
Unfortunately, the gop has spent generations bending over for their worst elements, and comes across as a pack of drooling dumbasses that are afraid of science, gays, books, knowledge, and thanks to MTG, "Jewish Space Lasers". I may never get over that. Also, the fact that Santos isn't already in a cell facing about 10,000 years in prison and zealots of a certain orange narcissist continue to insist that proven BS is fact, the party is splintered and basically crippled.
The two party system has been junk for a long time, but it's truly imperative to take it down.
Lol...Well yelled
I used to be a card-carrying member of the republicans too. For decades. Worked on the Reagan campaign.
I definitely consider myself independent these days.
Not a Biden supporter, but will vote for him again if its him vs evil orange turd.
But agree, both parties being ruled by lunatic & fanatic fringe is doing this country harm.
Quote: @Waterboy said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Greed...
If someone doesnt fathom that what Trump did to remain in power was not just wrong, but historically wrong in epic proportions?
Then there is just no point in us dialoging about it.
I suppose if you truly believe what a lying media and major parts of the govt lied about to you since before Trump took office, that would be true. The problem is and has been that it’s a narrative and not what actually happened. So, your side acts self-righteous, when in fact you’re simply gullible and mis-informed, something Democrats have counted on for years.
Actually, all one has to do is follow that actual narrative on on-the-books quotes and findings of all the voter fraud investigations that directly contradict that career con dufus...and that's before what's likely being released within the next year or so. Even many republicans, even judges installed by trumpites, found him to be full of s**t.
This isn't surprising to anyone that does their own research (again, not the MSM, so your be-all scapegoat doesn't work, here). He's lied, been caught lying, and had his lies with time/place/context posted many places online. Simple searches find them, dating back decades...some with video, because he does love to watch/hear himself!
He lost. He lied about it. Even now, Faux Nooz got so busted for pushing those lies, they admitted it throughout their staff and got fined almost a billion bucks for it.
"The Donald" is a lying stack of crap, and while he did an occasional decent bit of legislation, he's been basically incapable of consistent honesty forever.
That's not the media, that's not the Hildebeast, that's just him being him.
The fact that his drones fight to claim on-camera and on-record truth is false is just...tragic.
Quote: @Zanary said:
@ purplefaithful said:
Greed...
If someone doesnt fathom that what Trump did to remain in power was not just wrong, but historically wrong in epic proportions?
Then there is just no point in us dialoging about it.
Actually, all one has to do is follow that actual narrative on on-the-books quotes and findings of all the voter fraud investigations that directly contradict that career con dufus...and that's before what's likely being released within the next year or so. Even many republicans, even judges installed by trumpites, found him to be full of s**t.
This isn't surprising to anyone that does their own research (again, not the MSM, so your be-all scapegoat doesn't work, here). He's lied, been caught lying, and had his lies with time/place/context posted many places online. Simple searches find them, dating back decades...some with video, because he does love to watch/hear himself!
He lost. He lied about it. Even now, Faux Nooz got so busted for pushing those lies, they admitted it throughout their staff and got fined almost a billion bucks for it.
"The Donald" is a lying stack of crap, and while he did an occasional decent bit of legislation, he's been basically incapable of consistent honesty forever.
That's not the media, that's not the Hildebeast, that's just him being him.
The fact that his drones fight to claim on-camera and on-record truth is false is just...tragic. The Trump Admin did push some good legislation and I will always give him credit for Operation Warp Speed - and letting the experts in science be science experts...
Anyone who would vote for Biden after seeing this country self-destruct is now a card carrying liberal. Not voting for Trump is one thing. Voting for that zombie in the White House is shameful and irresponsible.
Wouldn't it be "shameful and irresponsible" to vote for any known liar, anyone known to worsen a country's divisions, anyone who's peddled their time in office for personal/familial business gains?
Whoops, that's both 45 and 46, and roughly 140 million voters that seem to hate this country.
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