I don’t think there should be any real expectations as I
think we could go either way. I don’t
think our coaching staff really showcased much with regards to coaching better
than the Zimmer regime did. I think they
were “nicer” and our veterans made just enough clutch plays to stack up the
wins, but Cousins statistically was worse, but with more clutch moments. Our running game was out of sorts. Our defense although relatively healthy for
the first time in years, still looked horrible.
We’ve cut out more of our veteran leadership, so we’re going to lean more
heavily on the coaching staff to fill that vacuum, both in terms of leadership
and moxie, but also in teaching up the guys replacing our longterm veterans.
I think there’s a very real chance that next year could look
a lot like last year, but instead of Kendricks scooping up a fumble to give our
offense a chance at the win , his no name replacement just doesn’t. Instead of Thielen getting 800 yards, Addison
doesn’t quite shine and KJ looks more like a 3 playing as a 2. Or Flores crushes it, and Addison hits the
ground running and we get 13 solidly.
We're depending on a lot more "what ifs" than normal this year.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JR44 said:
I believe KOC was the big difference with the transformation last year of Cousins in terms of his performance in the clutch and his leadership skills, I think he continues to have a positive effect on Cousins. He has the right personality to lead a young group of players. In terms of the team as a whole, I don't think we have improved from a personnel standpoint over the past two drafts, last year we did not get one impact player and I don't think a 172# WR was what this team needed with the holes on defense and the lack of a future QB. See a future with KOC, but do not think we will improve with who we have managing the roster.
So, because Addison is 172 lbs (exactly the same size as DeVonta Smith), he was a bad pick, despite the fact that the Vikings had only Jalen Nailor inked through 2024...and Cine, Booth and Evans, because they were hurt last year, are not impact players either. And Asamoah, who was drafted to replace Kendricks his 2nd year, was a bad pick too because he was behind Kendricks his 1st.
Got it. One thing's for certain...you are a Viking fan. :-)
Zero issue with the position drafted and I thought receiver has been a need for us for two years now. I think we were on the same page relating to Addison. Liked him, didn't love him, and he just didn't really explode or stand out on tape. Weve heard from SC fans on here that he was just okay and didnt make the kind of impact expected out of him last year. We'll see. Hoping for the best with him because we need somebody to keep the double teams off Jefferson.
I won't hold my breath on last years draft class. Cine is coming off a major injury and is he good enough at this point to unseat the players that were ahead of him on the depth chart last season? Booth and Evans are forever IR candidates. Jury is out on Asamoah still and what kind of impact he can make. I still contend he is on the smaller side and unless there is a plan in place to cover him up better then our line did last season with Kendricks, we are going to run into the same problems.
I would be a pretty big upset if Cine doesn't replace Bynum. Evans is one more concussion away from potential retirement. I thought he was our best outside corner last year in limited snaps, but I'm the most worried about him. Booth less so. And Asamoah not at all.
I'd be surprised to see him beat out Bynum, who I think is a pretty good safety. I guess first things first though for Cine, who needs to beat out Mattelus who was ahead of him on the depth chart last season. I'd have to guess we don't see much of Cine until he takes over the Harrison Smith role in 2024. Gives him a year to learn the new scheme and recover from that horrific injury..
Quote: @JR44 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JR44 said:
I believe KOC was the big difference with the transformation last year of Cousins in terms of his performance in the clutch and his leadership skills, I think he continues to have a positive effect on Cousins. He has the right personality to lead a young group of players. In terms of the team as a whole, I don't think we have improved from a personnel standpoint over the past two drafts, last year we did not get one impact player and I don't think a 172# WR was what this team needed with the holes on defense and the lack of a future QB. See a future with KOC, but do not think we will improve with who we have managing the roster.
So, because Addison is 172 lbs (exactly the same size as DeVonta Smith), he was a bad pick, despite the fact that the Vikings had only Jalen Nailor inked through 2024...and Cine, Booth and Evans, because they were hurt last year, are not impact players either. And Asamoah, who was drafted to replace Kendricks his 2nd year, was a bad pick too because he was behind Kendricks his 1st.
Got it. One thing's for certain...you are a Viking fan. :-)
I live in LA, am a USC fan and watched most of his snaps last year, so I am basing my opinion on a lot more than his weight. I never once thought of him as a first round pick or a dominant WR. He wasn't able to consistently stay on the field and often when he was he was not able to go full speed. My biggest issue with him was that he didn't seem to step up when the team needed him the most. He is a great route runner with good hands, very smooth, but didn't see that toughness that a lot of great smaller WRs have. Hope his skills translate to the NFL, but I think Osborn and Nailor will be ahead of him when season starts.
If you are defending last year's draft, then you are the one who is definitely a Viking's fan =) Cine well before he was hurt never looked like a first rounder, in fact when we had injuries at the safety spot it was a UDFA who played in front of him. Booth did not look great when healthy, Evans looks promising. Asamoah had plenty of opportunities to get on the field. Combined with the head scratching trade and that we did not address the holes we had in switching to a 3-4 and last year's draft was a disaster. I thought it really hurt us down the stretch and in the playoffs, cause we had no depth.
You mean disaster because 3 of our top 4 picks were hurt and not because they were bad picks, right? Because that would be ridiculously premature. Even our best draft class ever (2015), none of the players started right away. Not Waynes, not Diggs, not Hunter, not Kendricks.
We'll have to check back in a couple of years because I think the '22 draft could eventually be seen with 2015 as one of our best. Cine will be a starter this year. Ingram's already a starter, as is Asamoah. Akayleb Evans was the most impressive corner I saw last year, but I'll admit to being very worried about his brain. Throw in Ty Chandler and Jalen Nailer and this could be an unusually good haul for us. I think Booth is key to that.
I'm worried about a few things with Addison. One, I didn't like his first words to our GM were "Let's get paid!" I didn't like that he accidentally hung up on several coaches. I mean, is he some kind of moron? I'm not as worried about his size as I am his ability to beat press-man, which he almost never saw in college. So we'll see on that one. What I love is his Diggsy route running and ability to separate from defenders. This is exactly what he'll need to do in order to become Robin to JJ's Batman.
But I tend to agree with you in that I would not at all be surprised to see KJO start the season as WR2.
Nobody talks about the lack of a consistent pass rush. Danielle has never produced at a great level without a monster on the opposite end. We're playing a dumb 3-4 without a proven plugger in the middle, and getting blitz happy will get us burned by smart OC's. I think we could have survived with JJ, KJ, Nailor, and our TE's, and gone for a true DT or Edge earlier.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JR44 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JR44 said:
I believe KOC was the big difference with the transformation last year of Cousins in terms of his performance in the clutch and his leadership skills, I think he continues to have a positive effect on Cousins. He has the right personality to lead a young group of players. In terms of the team as a whole, I don't think we have improved from a personnel standpoint over the past two drafts, last year we did not get one impact player and I don't think a 172# WR was what this team needed with the holes on defense and the lack of a future QB. See a future with KOC, but do not think we will improve with who we have managing the roster.
So, because Addison is 172 lbs (exactly the same size as DeVonta Smith), he was a bad pick, despite the fact that the Vikings had only Jalen Nailor inked through 2024...and Cine, Booth and Evans, because they were hurt last year, are not impact players either. And Asamoah, who was drafted to replace Kendricks his 2nd year, was a bad pick too because he was behind Kendricks his 1st.
Got it. One thing's for certain...you are a Viking fan. :-)
I live in LA, am a USC fan and watched most of his snaps last year, so I am basing my opinion on a lot more than his weight. I never once thought of him as a first round pick or a dominant WR. He wasn't able to consistently stay on the field and often when he was he was not able to go full speed. My biggest issue with him was that he didn't seem to step up when the team needed him the most. He is a great route runner with good hands, very smooth, but didn't see that toughness that a lot of great smaller WRs have. Hope his skills translate to the NFL, but I think Osborn and Nailor will be ahead of him when season starts.
If you are defending last year's draft, then you are the one who is definitely a Viking's fan =) Cine well before he was hurt never looked like a first rounder, in fact when we had injuries at the safety spot it was a UDFA who played in front of him. Booth did not look great when healthy, Evans looks promising. Asamoah had plenty of opportunities to get on the field. Combined with the head scratching trade and that we did not address the holes we had in switching to a 3-4 and last year's draft was a disaster. I thought it really hurt us down the stretch and in the playoffs, cause we had no depth.
You mean disaster because 3 of our top 4 picks were hurt and not because they were bad picks, right? Because that would be ridiculously premature. Even our best draft class ever (2015), none of the players started right away. Not Waynes, not Diggs, not Hunter, not Kendricks.
Those players you mentioned didn't start initially because Zimmer was completely adverse to starting rookies. Diggs was our best receiver in training camp and the preseason as a rookie. It took him 3 or 4 weeks into the regular season to even become activated for game days.
But I'm going to say they were bad picks from this perspective;
First off we didn't get value in the massive trade downs, so that's a fail to start things off. We should have had more picks to play with in this last draft as a result of the trade downs. Didn't happen and most saw it as the Lions fleecing an inexperienced GM in his first draft.
- You don't take a safety with a first round pick, you just don't. Minimal impact position and free agency is littered every year with former first round safety picks that were not retained by the teams that drafted them. It's the equivelant of the running back position on defense. Cine was running fourth on the depth chart before the injury. If we really wanted a safety we could have stayed put and drafted Kyle Hamilton, who was the consensus better player and graded out as the top rookie safety last season. I thought it made even less sense for us after a good rookie season by Cameron Bynum, who retained his position.
- Andrew Booth was an injury concern in college, he couldn't work out prior to the draft due to a core injury, and he spent most of his rookie season injured and unavailable. His lack of production as a rookie was predictable.
- Ingram was a second round reach almost universally. He was the lowest rated guard in the league halfway through his rookie season. Better run blocker then pass protector. Part of that interior that struggled against Lawrence in the playoffs. Hoping he can continue to progress and become more reliable in his all around game. Right now he is an average to below average player.
So this was the top of our draft last year. Combine that with the fact we traded within the division to allow rivals to move up and draft the pass catchers they needed, and yeah as of right now, our draft last year looks like a flaming sack of dog crap. Watson is going to beva very good player for the Packers and despite the suspension, I absolutely believe Jameson Williams is going to be a problem.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JR44 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JR44 said:
I believe KOC was the big difference with the transformation last year of Cousins in terms of his performance in the clutch and his leadership skills, I think he continues to have a positive effect on Cousins. He has the right personality to lead a young group of players. In terms of the team as a whole, I don't think we have improved from a personnel standpoint over the past two drafts, last year we did not get one impact player and I don't think a 172# WR was what this team needed with the holes on defense and the lack of a future QB. See a future with KOC, but do not think we will improve with who we have managing the roster.
So, because Addison is 172 lbs (exactly the same size as DeVonta Smith), he was a bad pick, despite the fact that the Vikings had only Jalen Nailor inked through 2024...and Cine, Booth and Evans, because they were hurt last year, are not impact players either. And Asamoah, who was drafted to replace Kendricks his 2nd year, was a bad pick too because he was behind Kendricks his 1st.
Got it. One thing's for certain...you are a Viking fan. :-)
I live in LA, am a USC fan and watched most of his snaps last year, so I am basing my opinion on a lot more than his weight. I never once thought of him as a first round pick or a dominant WR. He wasn't able to consistently stay on the field and often when he was he was not able to go full speed. My biggest issue with him was that he didn't seem to step up when the team needed him the most. He is a great route runner with good hands, very smooth, but didn't see that toughness that a lot of great smaller WRs have. Hope his skills translate to the NFL, but I think Osborn and Nailor will be ahead of him when season starts.
If you are defending last year's draft, then you are the one who is definitely a Viking's fan =) Cine well before he was hurt never looked like a first rounder, in fact when we had injuries at the safety spot it was a UDFA who played in front of him. Booth did not look great when healthy, Evans looks promising. Asamoah had plenty of opportunities to get on the field. Combined with the head scratching trade and that we did not address the holes we had in switching to a 3-4 and last year's draft was a disaster. I thought it really hurt us down the stretch and in the playoffs, cause we had no depth.
You mean disaster because 3 of our top 4 picks were hurt and not because they were bad picks, right? Because that would be ridiculously premature. Even our best draft class ever (2015), none of the players started right away. Not Waynes, not Diggs, not Hunter, not Kendricks.
Those players you mentioned didn't start initially because Zimmer was completely adverse to starting rookies. Diggs was our best receiver in training camp and the preseason as a rookie. It took him 3 or 4 weeks into the regular season to even become activated for game days.
But I'm going to say they were bad picks from this perspective;
First off we didn't get value in the massive trade downs, so that's a fail to start things off. We should have had more picks to play with in this last draft as a result of the trade downs. Didn't happen and most saw it as the Lions fleecing an inexperienced GM in his first draft.
- You don't take a safety with a first round pick, you just don't. Minimal impact position and free agency is littered every year with former first round safety picks that were not retained by the teams that drafted them. It's the equivelant of the running back position on defense. Cine was running fourth on the depth chart before the injury. If we really wanted a safety we could have stayed put and drafted Kyle Hamilton, who was the consensus better player and graded out as the top rookie safety last season. I thought it made even less sense for us after a good rookie season by Cameron Bynum, who retained his position.
- Andrew Booth was an injury concern in college, he couldn't work out prior to the draft due to a core injury, and he spent most of his rookie season injured and unavailable. His lack of production as a rookie was predictable.
- Ingram was a second round reach almost universally. He was the lowest rated guard in the league halfway through his rookie season. Better run blocker then pass protector. Part of that interior that struggled against Lawrence in the playoffs. Hoping he can continue to progress and become more reliable in his all around game. Right now he is an average to below average player.
So this was the top of our draft last year. Combine that with the fact we traded within the division to allow rivals to move up and draft the pass catchers they needed, and yeah as of right now, our draft last year looks like a flaming sack of dog crap. Watson is going to beva very good player for the Packers and despite the suspension, I absolutely believe Jameson Williams is going to be a problem.
Agree with you on the trade down. I thought we should've gotten more from the Lions. But that's where the agreement ends. You're condemning a draft one year in, and because the team didn't draft the players you wanted, which is pretty silly.
Teams draft with an eye focused two and three years down the road. In other words, Cine was drafted not to replace Bynum. If he could do it, great. And I suspect he might've given a full season. He was drafted to eventually replace Harrison Smith, who by the way, was also taken late in the 1st round.
We'll revisit in a year or two.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JR44 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JR44 said:
I believe KOC was the big difference with the transformation last year of Cousins in terms of his performance in the clutch and his leadership skills, I think he continues to have a positive effect on Cousins. He has the right personality to lead a young group of players. In terms of the team as a whole, I don't think we have improved from a personnel standpoint over the past two drafts, last year we did not get one impact player and I don't think a 172# WR was what this team needed with the holes on defense and the lack of a future QB. See a future with KOC, but do not think we will improve with who we have managing the roster.
So, because Addison is 172 lbs (exactly the same size as DeVonta Smith), he was a bad pick, despite the fact that the Vikings had only Jalen Nailor inked through 2024...and Cine, Booth and Evans, because they were hurt last year, are not impact players either. And Asamoah, who was drafted to replace Kendricks his 2nd year, was a bad pick too because he was behind Kendricks his 1st.
Got it. One thing's for certain...you are a Viking fan. :-)
I live in LA, am a USC fan and watched most of his snaps last year, so I am basing my opinion on a lot more than his weight. I never once thought of him as a first round pick or a dominant WR. He wasn't able to consistently stay on the field and often when he was he was not able to go full speed. My biggest issue with him was that he didn't seem to step up when the team needed him the most. He is a great route runner with good hands, very smooth, but didn't see that toughness that a lot of great smaller WRs have. Hope his skills translate to the NFL, but I think Osborn and Nailor will be ahead of him when season starts.
If you are defending last year's draft, then you are the one who is definitely a Viking's fan =) Cine well before he was hurt never looked like a first rounder, in fact when we had injuries at the safety spot it was a UDFA who played in front of him. Booth did not look great when healthy, Evans looks promising. Asamoah had plenty of opportunities to get on the field. Combined with the head scratching trade and that we did not address the holes we had in switching to a 3-4 and last year's draft was a disaster. I thought it really hurt us down the stretch and in the playoffs, cause we had no depth.
You mean disaster because 3 of our top 4 picks were hurt and not because they were bad picks, right? Because that would be ridiculously premature. Even our best draft class ever (2015), none of the players started right away. Not Waynes, not Diggs, not Hunter, not Kendricks.
Those players you mentioned didn't start initially because Zimmer was completely adverse to starting rookies. Diggs was our best receiver in training camp and the preseason as a rookie. It took him 3 or 4 weeks into the regular season to even become activated for game days.
But I'm going to say they were bad picks from this perspective;
First off we didn't get value in the massive trade downs, so that's a fail to start things off. We should have had more picks to play with in this last draft as a result of the trade downs. Didn't happen and most saw it as the Lions fleecing an inexperienced GM in his first draft.
- You don't take a safety with a first round pick, you just don't. Minimal impact position and free agency is littered every year with former first round safety picks that were not retained by the teams that drafted them. It's the equivelant of the running back position on defense. Cine was running fourth on the depth chart before the injury. If we really wanted a safety we could have stayed put and drafted Kyle Hamilton, who was the consensus better player and graded out as the top rookie safety last season. I thought it made even less sense for us after a good rookie season by Cameron Bynum, who retained his position.
- Andrew Booth was an injury concern in college, he couldn't work out prior to the draft due to a core injury, and he spent most of his rookie season injured and unavailable. His lack of production as a rookie was predictable.
- Ingram was a second round reach almost universally. He was the lowest rated guard in the league halfway through his rookie season. Better run blocker then pass protector. Part of that interior that struggled against Lawrence in the playoffs. Hoping he can continue to progress and become more reliable in his all around game. Right now he is an average to below average player.
So this was the top of our draft last year. Combine that with the fact we traded within the division to allow rivals to move up and draft the pass catchers they needed, and yeah as of right now, our draft last year looks like a flaming sack of dog crap. Watson is going to beva very good player for the Packers and despite the suspension, I absolutely believe Jameson Williams is going to be a problem.
Agree with you on the trade down. I thought we should've gotten more from the Lions. But that's where the agreement ends. You're condemning a draft one year in, and because the team didn't draft the players you wanted, which is pretty silly.
Teams draft with an eye focused two and three years down the road. In other words, Cine was drafted not to replace Bynum. If he could do it, great. And I suspect he might've given a full season. He was drafted to eventually replace Harrison Smith, who by the way, was also taken late in the 1st round.
We'll revisit in a year or two.
I'm condemning the draft for the manner in which it was conducted by the new front office and the position of some of the players drafted. Regardless of whether they picked players I wanted or not, we had several needs and traded way down for below market value, then selected what I'd consider to be a luxury pick in Cine when we still had Smith in the fold and Bynum coming off an impressive rookie season. It was a mass collective of WTF all the way around. We got no return on any of the picks unless you liked what you saw out of Ingram. You can focus and project years out if you are in position from a roster standpoint to do so, but that was not the case with us heading into the 2022 draft.
I have hope that the DBs from last year can bounce back and contribute but I'm worried about Addison. He's tiny and already hurt. Yes I know DeVonte Smith is the same size but so is Tutu Atwell. He's a big wait and see for me and the fact he's already nicked up isn't great.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JR44 said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JR44 said:
I believe KOC was the big difference with the transformation last year of Cousins in terms of his performance in the clutch and his leadership skills, I think he continues to have a positive effect on Cousins. He has the right personality to lead a young group of players. In terms of the team as a whole, I don't think we have improved from a personnel standpoint over the past two drafts, last year we did not get one impact player and I don't think a 172# WR was what this team needed with the holes on defense and the lack of a future QB. See a future with KOC, but do not think we will improve with who we have managing the roster.
So, because Addison is 172 lbs (exactly the same size as DeVonta Smith), he was a bad pick, despite the fact that the Vikings had only Jalen Nailor inked through 2024...and Cine, Booth and Evans, because they were hurt last year, are not impact players either. And Asamoah, who was drafted to replace Kendricks his 2nd year, was a bad pick too because he was behind Kendricks his 1st.
Got it. One thing's for certain...you are a Viking fan. :-)
I live in LA, am a USC fan and watched most of his snaps last year, so I am basing my opinion on a lot more than his weight. I never once thought of him as a first round pick or a dominant WR. He wasn't able to consistently stay on the field and often when he was he was not able to go full speed. My biggest issue with him was that he didn't seem to step up when the team needed him the most. He is a great route runner with good hands, very smooth, but didn't see that toughness that a lot of great smaller WRs have. Hope his skills translate to the NFL, but I think Osborn and Nailor will be ahead of him when season starts.
If you are defending last year's draft, then you are the one who is definitely a Viking's fan =) Cine well before he was hurt never looked like a first rounder, in fact when we had injuries at the safety spot it was a UDFA who played in front of him. Booth did not look great when healthy, Evans looks promising. Asamoah had plenty of opportunities to get on the field. Combined with the head scratching trade and that we did not address the holes we had in switching to a 3-4 and last year's draft was a disaster. I thought it really hurt us down the stretch and in the playoffs, cause we had no depth.
You mean disaster because 3 of our top 4 picks were hurt and not because they were bad picks, right? Because that would be ridiculously premature. Even our best draft class ever (2015), none of the players started right away. Not Waynes, not Diggs, not Hunter, not Kendricks.
So this was the top of our draft last year. Combine that with the fact we traded within the division to allow rivals to move up and draft the pass catchers they needed, and yeah as of right now, our draft last year looks like a flaming sack of dog crap. Watson is going to beva very good player for the Packers and despite the suspension, I absolutely believe Jameson Williams is going to be a problem.
Right now there’s a Packers version of you on a Packers board saying they can’t count on Christian Watson because he’s injury prone. He had knee surgery in training camp, then missed time with hamstring, head, ankle and hip injuries. And even when he was healthy, he can’t catch the damn ball! His drop rate is the highest in the NFL among starting receivers. BUST.
There’s also a Lions version of you bitching about how Jameson Williams is a bust. How they gave up 3 picks to move up for him and he caught ONE pass all year. He was healthy for 6 games and couldn’t start a single one because, according to his coach, “it wasn’t clicking” for him. And now he’s suspended for 6 games? Flaming sack of dog crap!!
|
