Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I am afraid this election is to important to stand on the sideline or throw votes away. I too want to see a viable third party in the near future, but this election has to be so overwhelmingly RED that nobody would even think it possible that it could have went the other way. We cant have 4 more years of the debt piling on like we have seen the last 2.
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Biden's contribution to the National Debt is 1.84 trillion or 6.33% increase. Trump's contribution to the National Debt was 8.2 trillion or a 40.43% increase. https://www.usatoday.com/money/blueprint/banking/national-debt-by-president/
Respectfully, Jimmy, if the national debt is an important priority to you, you should be voting Democrat: - https://towardsdatascience.com/which-party-adds-more-to-deficits-a6422c6b00d7 ("While Republicans often claim that they are the more fiscally responsible party, my research suggests otherwise. Compared to Democratic presidents, Republicans are estimated to add between 0.75% and 1.2% more to the deficit (as a percent of GDP) each year they are in office. This result controls for economic conditions, and explains 75% of the variation in the annual changes to deficits.")
- https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/national-debt-growth-every-president-richard-nixon-joe-biden ("Republican President Donald Trump added nearly as much national debt during his four years in office as Obama did in eight, posting another $8.2 trillion.")
- https://247wallst.com/special-report/2023/05/06/the-national-debt-under-every-us-president-since-ww2/ ("The last time the federal government had a balanced budget – when revenue exceeded spending – was in 2000, under the Clinton Administration. ... The first U.S. president to increase the national debt by over a trillion dollars during his time in office was Ronald Reagan. During the Reagan Administration, the national debt expanded by 186%, the largest relative increase since Franklin Roosevelt, who raised government spending to fight World War II and bring the country out of the Great Depression.")
- https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/030515/which-united-states-presidents-have-run-largest-budget-deficits.asp ("Although almost every U.S. president in the past half-century has run a record budget deficit at one time or another, the largest budget deficits in U.S. history were run by former President Donald Trump and his two immediate predecessors. However, under the administration of Trump's successor, President Joe Biden, the deficit has gone down, even though his administration has had to deal with expenses connected to the COVID-19 pandemic.")
Trump actually had the pandemic to deal with and it was , Biden used the pandemic as an excuse to fund pet project garbage and and money funneling schemes and continues to do so.
As fat as fiscal responsibility, lets look at red states vs blue states, who seem to do better fiscally, lower taxes, lower or no debt?
Fiscally I've always run more conservative...
The problem since the tea party is that the republican party has gone bat shit crazy...Hell they're both run by the mouthpieces of their fringe and amplified by a media driving division in the country.
Oh well, its like rooting for the Vikings every year. Rinse and repeat.
Nobody is going to change anybodies mind.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I am afraid this election is to important to stand on the sideline or throw votes away. I too want to see a viable third party in the near future, but this election has to be so overwhelmingly RED that nobody would even think it possible that it could have went the other way. We cant have 4 more years of the debt piling on like we have seen the last 2.
![]()
Biden's contribution to the National Debt is 1.84 trillion or 6.33% increase. Trump's contribution to the National Debt was 8.2 trillion or a 40.43% increase. https://www.usatoday.com/money/blueprint/banking/national-debt-by-president/
Respectfully, Jimmy, if the national debt is an important priority to you, you should be voting Democrat: - https://towardsdatascience.com/which-party-adds-more-to-deficits-a6422c6b00d7 ("While Republicans often claim that they are the more fiscally responsible party, my research suggests otherwise. Compared to Democratic presidents, Republicans are estimated to add between 0.75% and 1.2% more to the deficit (as a percent of GDP) each year they are in office. This result controls for economic conditions, and explains 75% of the variation in the annual changes to deficits.")
- https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/national-debt-growth-every-president-richard-nixon-joe-biden ("Republican President Donald Trump added nearly as much national debt during his four years in office as Obama did in eight, posting another $8.2 trillion.")
- https://247wallst.com/special-report/2023/05/06/the-national-debt-under-every-us-president-since-ww2/ ("The last time the federal government had a balanced budget – when revenue exceeded spending – was in 2000, under the Clinton Administration. ... The first U.S. president to increase the national debt by over a trillion dollars during his time in office was Ronald Reagan. During the Reagan Administration, the national debt expanded by 186%, the largest relative increase since Franklin Roosevelt, who raised government spending to fight World War II and bring the country out of the Great Depression.")
- https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/030515/which-united-states-presidents-have-run-largest-budget-deficits.asp ("Although almost every U.S. president in the past half-century has run a record budget deficit at one time or another, the largest budget deficits in U.S. history were run by former President Donald Trump and his two immediate predecessors. However, under the administration of Trump's successor, President Joe Biden, the deficit has gone down, even though his administration has had to deal with expenses connected to the COVID-19 pandemic.")
As fat as fiscal responsibility, lets look at red states vs blue states, who seem to do better fiscally, lower taxes, lower or no debt?
Well, red states are more dependent upon getting aid from the federal government than blue states. Overall, red states get more federal aid than they pay in -- you could call red states welfare states.
Hard to argue that red states are more fiscally responsible when they require more federal assistance than they actually contribute.
Quote: @VikingOracle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I am afraid this election is to important to stand on the sideline or throw votes away. I too want to see a viable third party in the near future, but this election has to be so overwhelmingly RED that nobody would even think it possible that it could have went the other way. We cant have 4 more years of the debt piling on like we have seen the last
Well, red states are more dependent upon getting aid from the federal government than blue states. Overall, red states get more federal aid than they pay in -- you could call red states welfare states.
Hard to argue that red states are more fiscally responsible when they require more federal assistance than they actually contribute.
How much of that aid is due to large percentages of native american population? How much of that aid goes to fund state created issues vs federal programs? Most conservative states aren't spending more at the state level than they are brining in. If the feds are dumping money into programs that's not on the conservative states voters that are taking part in the programs. I know a lot of farmers that say they would support the fed getting out of farming all together since those programs are unfairly helping the super farmers and paper farmers like Gates and Turners.... and now the Chinese.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I am afraid this election is to important to stand on the sideline or throw votes away. I too want to see a viable third party in the near future, but this election has to be so overwhelmingly RED that nobody would even think it possible that it could have went the other way. We cant have 4 more years of the debt piling on like we have seen the last
Well, red states are more dependent upon getting aid from the federal government than blue states. Overall, red states get more federal aid than they pay in -- you could call red states welfare states.
Hard to argue that red states are more fiscally responsible when they require more federal assistance than they actually contribute.
How much of that aid is due to large percentages of native american population? How much of that aid goes to fund state created issues vs federal programs? Most conservative states aren't spending more at the state level than they are brining in. If the feds are dumping money into programs that's not on the conservative states voters that are taking part in the programs. I know a lot of farmers that say they would support the fed getting out of farming all together since those programs are unfairly helping the super farmers and paper farmers like Gates and Turners.... and now the Chinese.
Okay, support your assertions with some numbers, I want to learn why you say it is a result of “native american population”?
As for farmers getting federal subsidiaries:
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I am afraid this election is to important to stand on the sideline or throw votes away. I too want to see a viable third party in the near future, but this election has to be so overwhelmingly RED that nobody would even think it possible that it could have went the other way. We cant have 4 more years of the debt piling on like we have seen the last
Well, red states are more dependent upon getting aid from the federal government than blue states. Overall, red states get more federal aid than they pay in -- you could call red states welfare states.
Hard to argue that red states are more fiscally responsible when they require more federal assistance than they actually contribute. .... and now the Chinese.
Seriously, you know we've been 'helping' the Chinese for 45 years....regardless of who has been in the White House. They are the superpower they are now because of the United States Corporate farming manufacturing there and killing so many U.S. based jobs. Killing small towns. And nobody on either side of the aisle did a damn thing about it. Then with manufacturing jobs then came the engineering intelligence, American companies sending all of their engineering/production/logistics intellectual property to Chinese manufacturers. Chinese companies are turning into brands here in the U.S. The Chinese government subsidizes Chinese companies to put out volume, regardless of margin. A factory owner is getting 3% margin out of high volume the Chinese gov't will then give them an additional 10-15% of that volume as a subsidy. How can we compete? We can't, that's the short answer.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@ StickyBun said:
@ purplefaithful said:
I spent about 4 minutes watching the town hall last night...Rehashed tirades.
Shame on a system that (at best) gives us two octogenarians going at it again.
He's nuts. Yet CNN hosts a 'town hall' because they know people that love him and hate him will watch. Whores.
He's a repugnant piece of shit, but Biden and the democratic economic bullshit is tortuous. Please let DeSantis run so I can vote Republican again. He's not perfect, but I can't take another 4 years of economic turmoil under the Spendocrats (see, I made a funny about democrats!) :p Watching Biden walk anywhere and I'm just waiting for him to fall. He's so feeble.
The red train may have left the station already. I think your boy is waiting too long. I dont like a lot of whats happening in FL @Sticky. On a whole bunch of issues.
If he does run, I would have to scrutinize his stand a bunch b4 he could get my vote.
I've cooled on him quite a bit, but he'd be a better candidate than that pos on CNN last night.
He'd appeal to a broader group I suspect.
If I have to chose between Biden or Trump in 2024, I won't vote.
You could vote 3rd party and try to actually get a 3rd or 4th party with some relevance.
I am afraid this election is to important to stand on the sideline or throw votes away. I too want to see a viable third party in the near future, but this election has to be so overwhelmingly RED that nobody would even think it possible that it could have went the other way. We cant have 4 more years of the debt piling on like we have seen the last 2. This thing is spiraling so fast and I dont think its sheer incompetence that has the country heading towards staggering inflation or out right bankruptcy, I am not a big conspiracy guy, but I just have a hard time believing that all this bull shit is by accident.
There hasn’t been a fiscal conservative in decades. That ship left port roughly after WW2.
Ron Paul was as close as we were going to get to someone that actually said no to spending. Even now the “republicans” want cuts for a debt ceiling deal, but they didn’t give a damn the last 100 times it came up.
Quote: @VikingOracle said:
As for farmers getting federal subsidiaries:
1. You can’t blame the government from backing farmers that couldn’t sell products for 2 months. It was prop up the food industry ir watch it collapse.
2. All those extra SNAP beni’s and the local food drives were funded by department of Ag funds during covid.
3. 80% of the farm bill(s) past/current/not just covid are some form of food welfare. Not payments to farmers.
Lets call the “Farm Bill” what it is. Its the SNAP bill.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
I am afraid this election is to important to stand on the sideline or throw votes away. I too want to see a viable third party in the near future, but this election has to be so overwhelmingly RED that nobody would even think it possible that it could have went the other way. We cant have 4 more years of the debt piling on like we have seen the last
Well, red states are more dependent upon getting aid from the federal government than blue states. Overall, red states get more federal aid than they pay in -- you could call red states welfare states.
Hard to argue that red states are more fiscally responsible when they require more federal assistance than they actually contribute. .... and now the Chinese.
Seriously, you know we've been 'helping' the Chinese for 45 years....regardless of who has been in the White House. They are the superpower they are now because of the United States Corporate farming manufacturing there and killing so many U.S. based jobs. Killing small towns. And nobody on either side of the aisle did a damn thing about it. Then with manufacturing jobs then came the engineering intelligence, American companies sending all of their engineering/production/logistics intellectual property to Chinese manufacturers. Chinese companies are turning into brands here in the U.S. The Chinese government subsidizes Chinese companies to put out volume, regardless of margin. A factory owner is getting 3% margin out of high volume the Chinese gov't will then give them an additional 10-15% of that volume as a subsidy. How can we compete? We can't, that's the short answer.
Then on top of that, China is still an “undeveloped” nation so everyone gives them favorable tarrif rates.
Quote: @VikingOracle said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ VikingOracle said:
@"
As fat as fiscal responsibility, lets look at red states vs blue states, who seem to do better fiscally, lower taxes, lower or no debt?
Well, red states are more dependent upon getting aid from the federal government than blue states. Overall, red states get more federal aid than they pay in -- you could call red states welfare states.
Hard to argue that red states are more fiscally responsible when they require more federal assistance than they actually contribute.
The charts on Federal money in/out of States has been around for a while. The innuendo is that it is all related to Welfare type payments. The reality is the number is reflective of how much money leaves the State via Federal Taxes and how much comes back into the State as Federal payments. There are a number of reasons that some of those States have significantly more money coming into the Federal coffers...most have nothing to do with Welfare. Many of the Southern States have large military bases with paymasters at those locations for employees and contracts. The reasons for maintaining those bases is obvious...weather is conducive to training / research, solid support from the State and local communities and cost of maintenance. You also see a large disparity of payments in and out for States with large percentage of Native populations where virtually no money goes out to the Fed and funding back from the Bureau of Indian Affairs among others. You also have some States with large chunks of land within the State borders under control of the Federal BLM which requires maintenance. Another contributor to the discrepancy are States with large geographies and low population...particularly those with primary Interstate routes. The Feds pay a large amount of the maintenance for those "infrastructure" routes.
New Mexico, which was first on the list, has numerous military, military research facilities, a large Native population and some major Interstate system arteries. Last I looked, something like 6% of total employees in the State work for the Fed...and thus...money "going into the State" Compare that to states such as Minnesota which has a very small Federal footprint.
As I said, that chart has been around for a long time. I actually researched it a number of years ago...and it was tough to find the raw data. When I did find the data, it became apparent it was designed as a Left talking point with an implication of moral and economic superiority.
One last thing, did you actually look at the Forbes article on Stimulus payments? All the States are within $100 or so of each other so again really a talking point versus any real insight on differences in Red and Blue States. I thought all the stimulus was the same...so the difference is likely in the percentage of the population that applied for Stimulus assistance.
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