Geoff, whats going on with Z'Darius? Is he going to be back?
As far as KC goes I hope they can sign him to a team friendlier deal and buy themselves some time to find that QBOTF.
Just like last year, we need to ask ourselves what are our options? Dalton? Carr? Mariota? Jimmy G?
The reality is that there is no current NFL QB who could be available to the purple who is clearly better than Cousins.
Now find me that RPO next guy soon KAM and I'll be a happy camper.
One last point I'll make is this - Justin Jefferson. I suspect he would very much like to have Cousins tossing him td balls again in 23 and maybe 24 too.
Quote: @pattersaur said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
I agree that the Bradbury situation is a tricky one to navigate. He may have reached his ceiling play wise and the $/terms will be the deciding factor. Plus some other team may just decide he's the cats meow and give him a deal he cant refuse.
Either way, we are all in agreement the Vikings need to get "stouter" in the trenches for both their lines.
Am very much looking forward to the next 5/6 weeks.
Theres nothing tricky with GB, hes hasn't shown to have the strength and anchor to be a starting center, especially for a pocket QB. If he went somewhere with a QB that can move and avoid the rush, he will probably have a decent career, but there is still the matter of him not being able to move anybody.
I don't disagree, but you do need to give him credit cerebrally since he is good at managing the protections. There was a notable drop-off when Schlottman took over. Bradbury is also one of the best centers in space in the NFL. So it kind of boils down to him being a flawed player.
If you want to play in space he is exceptional. But there are just going to be matchups against larger NT/DT tackles where he is just going to have a tough afternoon. However, he did show signs of improvement prior to his injury. Nothing extraordinary, but progress.
Ultimately comes down to price point. He's worth keeping around since it just eliminates a new need. But if he wants high-end center money similar to Eric McCoy & Ryan Kelly ($12M/yr) I would pass. Hard part is that former high-end prospects always get overpaid if they reach FA so he may get it.
They (the Vikings) should get a good sense of the $ piece by the Combine correct?
I am sure the Vikings know what he is looking for at this point. Combine will only move that number up/down based on what they hear from other teams. Combine is really the start of FA since agents get a feel for their guys market. So next week will really dictate if he will re-sign or will re-test the market. I guess I would be a little surprised if he didn't at least test the waters since the Vikings aren't about to tag him.
And color me "old fashioned" but I think so much of this is influenced and revolves around the QB. What they do with KC is really going to drive what flex they have in FA.
Second to that would be the next tier of players in Cook, Thielen P2 and Kendricks...
If the Vikings already have a sense of what the players might be asking for, when does this all need to get resolved by?
The legal tampering period?
I haven't heard anything on Kirk rumors lately, time will tell on that one, also a combine topic. Odds are that they try to extend him yet again assuming the price point makes sense. I could see the Vikings wanting to wait on Derek Carr to sign since that is a good data point to leverage Kirk off of. At this point Kirk realistically will be looking for $40M on yet another short-term deal. So I guess you could say the Vikings are hoping Carr gets closer to $30-35M.
While Kirk has always set the precedence he'll only sign guaranteed deals if the Vikings could get him for $105 - $112.5M/3 years with only $60-70M guaranteed I think they'd jump on it. That just gives you the room to really massage the salary cap. In this scenario they can save $10-15M on the cap this year and still have him on a cap number close to $30M in 2024.
Going against the odds, I personally wouldn't be too surprised if they let him play his contract out. They can still move some of his roster bonus out if they would like to free up a bit of cap space, but it just gets them out of the year to year business. At some point the Vikings need to dictate you either need to re-sign for term or we can't continue to do this. Of course this doesn't prevent them from resigning him after the 2023 season at all. But it does really bring into focus the need for a young QB on the roster. They can just be selective on who that is.
But all of this will probably need to be decided in pencil by the legal tampering period.
God my buddies are gonna clown me so hard if the Vikings sign Kirk for THREE more years. He's a good player but at what point does the team say-- well, this isn't really working so...
Also Matt Ryan and Phillip Rivers scare me to death as far as QBs falling off a cliff. Even Rodgers this past season was a sharp drop off from just a year ago (MVP). Brady and Favre are not the norm.
We’re approaching the “best Viking QB” of all time territory. He’ll need to go a ways to get ahead of Fran but it’s approaching.
I have no idea how a fan who hasnt had stability at the position in what? 40 years? Cant see that its nice to not worry about it year in year out.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ pattersaur said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
I agree that the Bradbury situation is a tricky one to navigate. He may have reached his ceiling play wise and the $/terms will be the deciding factor. Plus some other team may just decide he's the cats meow and give him a deal he cant refuse.
Either way, we are all in agreement the Vikings need to get "stouter" in the trenches for both their lines.
Am very much looking forward to the next 5/6 weeks.
Theres nothing tricky with GB, hes hasn't shown to have the strength and anchor to be a starting center, especially for a pocket QB. If he went somewhere with a QB that can move and avoid the rush, he will probably have a decent career, but there is still the matter of him not being able to move anybody.
I don't disagree, but you do need to give him credit cerebrally since he is good at managing the protections. There was a notable drop-off when Schlottman took over. Bradbury is also one of the best centers in space in the NFL. So it kind of boils down to him being a flawed player.
If you want to play in space he is exceptional. But there are just going to be matchups against larger NT/DT tackles where he is just going to have a tough afternoon. However, he did show signs of improvement prior to his injury. Nothing extraordinary, but progress.
Ultimately comes down to price point. He's worth keeping around since it just eliminates a new need. But if he wants high-end center money similar to Eric McCoy & Ryan Kelly ($12M/yr) I would pass. Hard part is that former high-end prospects always get overpaid if they reach FA so he may get it.
They (the Vikings) should get a good sense of the $ piece by the Combine correct?
I am sure the Vikings know what he is looking for at this point. Combine will only move that number up/down based on what they hear from other teams. Combine is really the start of FA since agents get a feel for their guys market. So next week will really dictate if he will re-sign or will re-test the market. I guess I would be a little surprised if he didn't at least test the waters since the Vikings aren't about to tag him.
And color me "old fashioned" but I think so much of this is influenced and revolves around the QB. What they do with KC is really going to drive what flex they have in FA.
Second to that would be the next tier of players in Cook, Thielen P2 and Kendricks...
If the Vikings already have a sense of what the players might be asking for, when does this all need to get resolved by?
The legal tampering period?
I haven't heard anything on Kirk rumors lately, time will tell on that one, also a combine topic. Odds are that they try to extend him yet again assuming the price point makes sense. I could see the Vikings wanting to wait on Derek Carr to sign since that is a good data point to leverage Kirk off of. At this point Kirk realistically will be looking for $40M on yet another short-term deal. So I guess you could say the Vikings are hoping Carr gets closer to $30-35M.
While Kirk has always set the precedence he'll only sign guaranteed deals if the Vikings could get him for $105 - $112.5M/3 years with only $60-70M guaranteed I think they'd jump on it. That just gives you the room to really massage the salary cap. In this scenario they can save $10-15M on the cap this year and still have him on a cap number close to $30M in 2024.
Going against the odds, I personally wouldn't be too surprised if they let him play his contract out. They can still move some of his roster bonus out if they would like to free up a bit of cap space, but it just gets them out of the year to year business. At some point the Vikings need to dictate you either need to re-sign for term or we can't continue to do this. Of course this doesn't prevent them from resigning him after the 2023 season at all. But it does really bring into focus the need for a young QB on the roster. They can just be selective on who that is.
But all of this will probably need to be decided in pencil by the legal tampering period.
God my buddies are gonna clown me so hard if the Vikings sign Kirk for THREE more years. He's a good player but at what point does the team say-- well, this isn't really working so...
Also Matt Ryan and Phillip Rivers scare me to death as far as QBs falling off a cliff. Even Rodgers this past season was a sharp drop off from just a year ago (MVP). Brady and Favre are not the norm.
We’re approaching the “best Viking QB” of all time territory. He’ll need to go a ways to get ahead of Fran but it’s approaching.
I have no idea how a fan who hasnt had stability at the position in what? 40 years? Cant see that its nice to not worry about it year in year out.
Because while he is a good passer and blessed with good helath, he is lacking in other areas that are important, but as long as the team is happy with above average, then they will not be as apt to make that move for the future. I dont see a future with Cousins but dammit of he isn't just good enough to keep us drafting in the low 20s where you don't really have a good shot at your pick of the litter without gambling your future.
By the time the wheels fall off KC and the franchise makes a real move for a QB, we will have once again pissed away some damn good talent.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ pattersaur said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
I agree that the Bradbury situation is a tricky one to navigate. He may have reached his ceiling play wise and the $/terms will be the deciding factor. Plus some other team may just decide he's the cats meow and give him a deal he cant refuse.
Either way, we are all in agreement the Vikings need to get "stouter" in the trenches for both their lines.
Am very much looking forward to the next 5/6 weeks.
Theres nothing tricky with GB, hes hasn't shown to have the strength and anchor to be a starting center, especially for a pocket QB. If he went somewhere with a QB that can move and avoid the rush, he will probably have a decent career, but there is still the matter of him not being able to move anybody.
I don't disagree, but you do need to give him credit cerebrally since he is good at managing the protections. There was a notable drop-off when Schlottman took over. Bradbury is also one of the best centers in space in the NFL. So it kind of boils down to him being a flawed player.
If you want to play in space he is exceptional. But there are just going to be matchups against larger NT/DT tackles where he is just going to have a tough afternoon. However, he did show signs of improvement prior to his injury. Nothing extraordinary, but progress.
Ultimately comes down to price point. He's worth keeping around since it just eliminates a new need. But if he wants high-end center money similar to Eric McCoy & Ryan Kelly ($12M/yr) I would pass. Hard part is that former high-end prospects always get overpaid if they reach FA so he may get it.
They (the Vikings) should get a good sense of the $ piece by the Combine correct?
I am sure the Vikings know what he is looking for at this point. Combine will only move that number up/down based on what they hear from other teams. Combine is really the start of FA since agents get a feel for their guys market. So next week will really dictate if he will re-sign or will re-test the market. I guess I would be a little surprised if he didn't at least test the waters since the Vikings aren't about to tag him.
And color me "old fashioned" but I think so much of this is influenced and revolves around the QB. What they do with KC is really going to drive what flex they have in FA.
Second to that would be the next tier of players in Cook, Thielen P2 and Kendricks...
If the Vikings already have a sense of what the players might be asking for, when does this all need to get resolved by?
The legal tampering period?
I haven't heard anything on Kirk rumors lately, time will tell on that one, also a combine topic. Odds are that they try to extend him yet again assuming the price point makes sense. I could see the Vikings wanting to wait on Derek Carr to sign since that is a good data point to leverage Kirk off of. At this point Kirk realistically will be looking for $40M on yet another short-term deal. So I guess you could say the Vikings are hoping Carr gets closer to $30-35M.
While Kirk has always set the precedence he'll only sign guaranteed deals if the Vikings could get him for $105 - $112.5M/3 years with only $60-70M guaranteed I think they'd jump on it. That just gives you the room to really massage the salary cap. In this scenario they can save $10-15M on the cap this year and still have him on a cap number close to $30M in 2024.
Going against the odds, I personally wouldn't be too surprised if they let him play his contract out. They can still move some of his roster bonus out if they would like to free up a bit of cap space, but it just gets them out of the year to year business. At some point the Vikings need to dictate you either need to re-sign for term or we can't continue to do this. Of course this doesn't prevent them from resigning him after the 2023 season at all. But it does really bring into focus the need for a young QB on the roster. They can just be selective on who that is.
But all of this will probably need to be decided in pencil by the legal tampering period.
God my buddies are gonna clown me so hard if the Vikings sign Kirk for THREE more years. He's a good player but at what point does the team say-- well, this isn't really working so...
Also Matt Ryan and Phillip Rivers scare me to death as far as QBs falling off a cliff. Even Rodgers this past season was a sharp drop off from just a year ago (MVP). Brady and Favre are not the norm.
We’re approaching the “best Viking QB” of all time territory. He’ll need to go a ways to get ahead of Fran but it’s approaching.
I have no idea how a fan who hasnt had stability at the position in what? 40 years? Cant see that its nice to not worry about it year in year out.
Because while he is a good passer and blessed with good helath, he is lacking in other areas that are important, but as long as the team is happy with above average, then they will not be as apt to make that move for the future. I dont see a future with Cousins but dammit of he isn't just good enough to keep us drafting in the low 20s where you don't really have a good shot at your pick of the litter without gambling your future.
By the time the wheels fall off KC and the franchise makes a real move for a QB, we will have once again pissed away some damn good talent.
There isnt many Patrick Mahomes out there to draft. The QBs who can take a bad team and elevate them to elite are extremely rare (2-3 per decade?)
We’ve had fugly dates to the prom for 40 years. Why break up with our 8.5 in hopes of a 10?
Quote: @pattersaur said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
I agree that the Bradbury situation is a tricky one to navigate. He may have reached his ceiling play wise and the $/terms will be the deciding factor. Plus some other team may just decide he's the cats meow and give him a deal he cant refuse.
Either way, we are all in agreement the Vikings need to get "stouter" in the trenches for both their lines.
Am very much looking forward to the next 5/6 weeks.
Theres nothing tricky with GB, hes hasn't shown to have the strength and anchor to be a starting center, especially for a pocket QB. If he went somewhere with a QB that can move and avoid the rush, he will probably have a decent career, but there is still the matter of him not being able to move anybody.
I don't disagree, but you do need to give him credit cerebrally since he is good at managing the protections. There was a notable drop-off when Schlottman took over. Bradbury is also one of the best centers in space in the NFL. So it kind of boils down to him being a flawed player.
If you want to play in space he is exceptional. But there are just going to be matchups against larger NT/DT tackles where he is just going to have a tough afternoon. However, he did show signs of improvement prior to his injury. Nothing extraordinary, but progress.
Ultimately comes down to price point. He's worth keeping around since it just eliminates a new need. But if he wants high-end center money similar to Eric McCoy & Ryan Kelly ($12M/yr) I would pass. Hard part is that former high-end prospects always get overpaid if they reach FA so he may get it.
They (the Vikings) should get a good sense of the $ piece by the Combine correct?
I am sure the Vikings know what he is looking for at this point. Combine will only move that number up/down based on what they hear from other teams. Combine is really the start of FA since agents get a feel for their guys market. So next week will really dictate if he will re-sign or will re-test the market. I guess I would be a little surprised if he didn't at least test the waters since the Vikings aren't about to tag him.
And color me "old fashioned" but I think so much of this is influenced and revolves around the QB. What they do with KC is really going to drive what flex they have in FA.
Second to that would be the next tier of players in Cook, Thielen P2 and Kendricks...
If the Vikings already have a sense of what the players might be asking for, when does this all need to get resolved by?
The legal tampering period?
I haven't heard anything on Kirk rumors lately, time will tell on that one, also a combine topic. Odds are that they try to extend him yet again assuming the price point makes sense. I could see the Vikings wanting to wait on Derek Carr to sign since that is a good data point to leverage Kirk off of. At this point Kirk realistically will be looking for $40M on yet another short-term deal. So I guess you could say the Vikings are hoping Carr gets closer to $30-35M.
While Kirk has always set the precedence he'll only sign guaranteed deals if the Vikings could get him for $105 - $112.5M/3 years with only $60-70M guaranteed I think they'd jump on it. That just gives you the room to really massage the salary cap. In this scenario they can save $10-15M on the cap this year and still have him on a cap number close to $30M in 2024.
Going against the odds, I personally wouldn't be too surprised if they let him play his contract out. They can still move some of his roster bonus out if they would like to free up a bit of cap space, but it just gets them out of the year to year business. At some point the Vikings need to dictate you either need to re-sign for term or we can't continue to do this. Of course this doesn't prevent them from resigning him after the 2023 season at all. But it does really bring into focus the need for a young QB on the roster. They can just be selective on who that is.
But all of this will probably need to be decided in pencil by the legal tampering period.
God my buddies are gonna clown me so hard if the Vikings sign Kirk for THREE more years. He's a good player but at what point does the team say-- well, this isn't really working so...
Also Matt Ryan and Phillip Rivers scare me to death as far as QBs falling off a cliff. Even Rodgers this past season was a sharp drop off from just a year ago (MVP). Brady and Favre are not the norm.
With all due respect, your buddies aren't very bright. No reasonably informed person can look at the Vikings and go "oh...hey, Cousins is the problem there!" I mean it's laughable.
Also, Rodgers is 5 years older than Cousins. I would say Cousins is at least three years away from any kind of age-related decline. And the QBs who continue to play good football into their late 30s and early 40s tend to be the ones who don't have a pile of injuries in their history.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ pattersaur said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
I agree that the Bradbury situation is a tricky one to navigate. He may have reached his ceiling play wise and the $/terms will be the deciding factor. Plus some other team may just decide he's the cats meow and give him a deal he cant refuse.
Either way, we are all in agreement the Vikings need to get "stouter" in the trenches for both their lines.
Am very much looking forward to the next 5/6 weeks.
Theres nothing tricky with GB, hes hasn't shown to have the strength and anchor to be a starting center, especially for a pocket QB. If he went somewhere with a QB that can move and avoid the rush, he will probably have a decent career, but there is still the matter of him not being able to move anybody.
I don't disagree, but you do need to give him credit cerebrally since he is good at managing the protections. There was a notable drop-off when Schlottman took over. Bradbury is also one of the best centers in space in the NFL. So it kind of boils down to him being a flawed player.
If you want to play in space he is exceptional. But there are just going to be matchups against larger NT/DT tackles where he is just going to have a tough afternoon. However, he did show signs of improvement prior to his injury. Nothing extraordinary, but progress.
Ultimately comes down to price point. He's worth keeping around since it just eliminates a new need. But if he wants high-end center money similar to Eric McCoy & Ryan Kelly ($12M/yr) I would pass. Hard part is that former high-end prospects always get overpaid if they reach FA so he may get it.
They (the Vikings) should get a good sense of the $ piece by the Combine correct?
I am sure the Vikings know what he is looking for at this point. Combine will only move that number up/down based on what they hear from other teams. Combine is really the start of FA since agents get a feel for their guys market. So next week will really dictate if he will re-sign or will re-test the market. I guess I would be a little surprised if he didn't at least test the waters since the Vikings aren't about to tag him.
And color me "old fashioned" but I think so much of this is influenced and revolves around the QB. What they do with KC is really going to drive what flex they have in FA.
Second to that would be the next tier of players in Cook, Thielen P2 and Kendricks...
If the Vikings already have a sense of what the players might be asking for, when does this all need to get resolved by?
The legal tampering period?
I haven't heard anything on Kirk rumors lately, time will tell on that one, also a combine topic. Odds are that they try to extend him yet again assuming the price point makes sense. I could see the Vikings wanting to wait on Derek Carr to sign since that is a good data point to leverage Kirk off of. At this point Kirk realistically will be looking for $40M on yet another short-term deal. So I guess you could say the Vikings are hoping Carr gets closer to $30-35M.
While Kirk has always set the precedence he'll only sign guaranteed deals if the Vikings could get him for $105 - $112.5M/3 years with only $60-70M guaranteed I think they'd jump on it. That just gives you the room to really massage the salary cap. In this scenario they can save $10-15M on the cap this year and still have him on a cap number close to $30M in 2024.
Going against the odds, I personally wouldn't be too surprised if they let him play his contract out. They can still move some of his roster bonus out if they would like to free up a bit of cap space, but it just gets them out of the year to year business. At some point the Vikings need to dictate you either need to re-sign for term or we can't continue to do this. Of course this doesn't prevent them from resigning him after the 2023 season at all. But it does really bring into focus the need for a young QB on the roster. They can just be selective on who that is.
But all of this will probably need to be decided in pencil by the legal tampering period.
God my buddies are gonna clown me so hard if the Vikings sign Kirk for THREE more years. He's a good player but at what point does the team say-- well, this isn't really working so...
Also Matt Ryan and Phillip Rivers scare me to death as far as QBs falling off a cliff. Even Rodgers this past season was a sharp drop off from just a year ago (MVP). Brady and Favre are not the norm.
We’re approaching the “best Viking QB” of all time territory. He’ll need to go a ways to get ahead of Fran but it’s approaching.
I have no idea how a fan who hasnt had stability at the position in what? 40 years? Cant see that its nice to not worry about it year in year out.
Because while he is a good passer and blessed with good helath, he is lacking in other areas that are important, but as long as the team is happy with above average, then they will not be as apt to make that move for the future. I dont see a future with Cousins but dammit of he isn't just good enough to keep us drafting in the low 20s where you don't really have a good shot at your pick of the litter without gambling your future.
By the time the wheels fall off KC and the franchise makes a real move for a QB, we will have once again pissed away some damn good talent.
There isnt many Patrick Mahomes out there to draft. The QBs who can take a bad team and elevate them to elite are extremely rare (2-3 per decade?)
We’ve had fugly dates to the prom for 40 years. Why break up with our 8.5 in hopes of a 10?
Love the argument that there is nothing between Cousins and Mahomes in the terms of QB play. If Mhomes is the 10, then Cousins is a 6.5 to 7 at best. Plenty of room for improvement from the position in terms of pocket awareness and using his legs while he scans down field.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ pattersaur said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
I agree that the Bradbury situation is a tricky one to navigate. He may have reached his ceiling play wise and the $/terms will be the deciding factor. Plus some other team may just decide he's the cats meow and give him a deal he cant refuse.
Either way, we are all in agreement the Vikings need to get "stouter" in the trenches for both their lines.
Am very much looking forward to the next 5/6 weeks.
Theres nothing tricky with GB, hes hasn't shown to have the strength and anchor to be a starting center, especially for a pocket QB. If he went somewhere with a QB that can move and avoid the rush, he will probably have a decent career, but there is still the matter of him not being able to move anybody.
I don't disagree, but you do need to give him credit cerebrally since he is good at managing the protections. There was a notable drop-off when Schlottman took over. Bradbury is also one of the best centers in space in the NFL. So it kind of boils down to him being a flawed player.
If you want to play in space he is exceptional. But there are just going to be matchups against larger NT/DT tackles where he is just going to have a tough afternoon. However, he did show signs of improvement prior to his injury. Nothing extraordinary, but progress.
Ultimately comes down to price point. He's worth keeping around since it just eliminates a new need. But if he wants high-end center money similar to Eric McCoy & Ryan Kelly ($12M/yr) I would pass. Hard part is that former high-end prospects always get overpaid if they reach FA so he may get it.
They (the Vikings) should get a good sense of the $ piece by the Combine correct?
I am sure the Vikings know what he is looking for at this point. Combine will only move that number up/down based on what they hear from other teams. Combine is really the start of FA since agents get a feel for their guys market. So next week will really dictate if he will re-sign or will re-test the market. I guess I would be a little surprised if he didn't at least test the waters since the Vikings aren't about to tag him.
And color me "old fashioned" but I think so much of this is influenced and revolves around the QB. What they do with KC is really going to drive what flex they have in FA.
Second to that would be the next tier of players in Cook, Thielen P2 and Kendricks...
If the Vikings already have a sense of what the players might be asking for, when does this all need to get resolved by?
The legal tampering period?
I haven't heard anything on Kirk rumors lately, time will tell on that one, also a combine topic. Odds are that they try to extend him yet again assuming the price point makes sense. I could see the Vikings wanting to wait on Derek Carr to sign since that is a good data point to leverage Kirk off of. At this point Kirk realistically will be looking for $40M on yet another short-term deal. So I guess you could say the Vikings are hoping Carr gets closer to $30-35M.
While Kirk has always set the precedence he'll only sign guaranteed deals if the Vikings could get him for $105 - $112.5M/3 years with only $60-70M guaranteed I think they'd jump on it. That just gives you the room to really massage the salary cap. In this scenario they can save $10-15M on the cap this year and still have him on a cap number close to $30M in 2024.
Going against the odds, I personally wouldn't be too surprised if they let him play his contract out. They can still move some of his roster bonus out if they would like to free up a bit of cap space, but it just gets them out of the year to year business. At some point the Vikings need to dictate you either need to re-sign for term or we can't continue to do this. Of course this doesn't prevent them from resigning him after the 2023 season at all. But it does really bring into focus the need for a young QB on the roster. They can just be selective on who that is.
But all of this will probably need to be decided in pencil by the legal tampering period.
God my buddies are gonna clown me so hard if the Vikings sign Kirk for THREE more years. He's a good player but at what point does the team say-- well, this isn't really working so...
Also Matt Ryan and Phillip Rivers scare me to death as far as QBs falling off a cliff. Even Rodgers this past season was a sharp drop off from just a year ago (MVP). Brady and Favre are not the norm.
With all due respect, your buddies aren't very bright. No reasonably informed person can look at the Vikings and go "oh...hey, Cousins is the problem there!" I mean it's laughable.
Also, Rodgers is 5 years older than Cousins. I would say Cousins is at least three years away from any kind of age-related decline. And the QBs who continue to play good football into their late 30s and early 40s tend to be the ones who don't have a pile of injuries in their history.
They also tend to be the ones that don't take a lot of big hits which we know Kirk has taken.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ pattersaur said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
I agree that the Bradbury situation is a tricky one to navigate. He may have reached his ceiling play wise and the $/terms will be the deciding factor. Plus some other team may just decide he's the cats meow and give him a deal he cant refuse.
Either way, we are all in agreement the Vikings need to get "stouter" in the trenches for both their lines.
Am very much looking forward to the next 5/6 weeks.
Theres nothing tricky with GB, hes hasn't shown to have the strength and anchor to be a starting center, especially for a pocket QB. If he went somewhere with a QB that can move and avoid the rush, he will probably have a decent career, but there is still the matter of him not being able to move anybody.
I don't disagree, but you do need to give him credit cerebrally since he is good at managing the protections. There was a notable drop-off when Schlottman took over. Bradbury is also one of the best centers in space in the NFL. So it kind of boils down to him being a flawed player.
If you want to play in space he is exceptional. But there are just going to be matchups against larger NT/DT tackles where he is just going to have a tough afternoon. However, he did show signs of improvement prior to his injury. Nothing extraordinary, but progress.
Ultimately comes down to price point. He's worth keeping around since it just eliminates a new need. But if he wants high-end center money similar to Eric McCoy & Ryan Kelly ($12M/yr) I would pass. Hard part is that former high-end prospects always get overpaid if they reach FA so he may get it.
They (the Vikings) should get a good sense of the $ piece by the Combine correct?
I am sure the Vikings know what he is looking for at this point. Combine will only move that number up/down based on what they hear from other teams. Combine is really the start of FA since agents get a feel for their guys market. So next week will really dictate if he will re-sign or will re-test the market. I guess I would be a little surprised if he didn't at least test the waters since the Vikings aren't about to tag him.
And color me "old fashioned" but I think so much of this is influenced and revolves around the QB. What they do with KC is really going to drive what flex they have in FA.
Second to that would be the next tier of players in Cook, Thielen P2 and Kendricks...
If the Vikings already have a sense of what the players might be asking for, when does this all need to get resolved by?
The legal tampering period?
I haven't heard anything on Kirk rumors lately, time will tell on that one, also a combine topic. Odds are that they try to extend him yet again assuming the price point makes sense. I could see the Vikings wanting to wait on Derek Carr to sign since that is a good data point to leverage Kirk off of. At this point Kirk realistically will be looking for $40M on yet another short-term deal. So I guess you could say the Vikings are hoping Carr gets closer to $30-35M.
While Kirk has always set the precedence he'll only sign guaranteed deals if the Vikings could get him for $105 - $112.5M/3 years with only $60-70M guaranteed I think they'd jump on it. That just gives you the room to really massage the salary cap. In this scenario they can save $10-15M on the cap this year and still have him on a cap number close to $30M in 2024.
Going against the odds, I personally wouldn't be too surprised if they let him play his contract out. They can still move some of his roster bonus out if they would like to free up a bit of cap space, but it just gets them out of the year to year business. At some point the Vikings need to dictate you either need to re-sign for term or we can't continue to do this. Of course this doesn't prevent them from resigning him after the 2023 season at all. But it does really bring into focus the need for a young QB on the roster. They can just be selective on who that is.
But all of this will probably need to be decided in pencil by the legal tampering period.
God my buddies are gonna clown me so hard if the Vikings sign Kirk for THREE more years. He's a good player but at what point does the team say-- well, this isn't really working so...
Also Matt Ryan and Phillip Rivers scare me to death as far as QBs falling off a cliff. Even Rodgers this past season was a sharp drop off from just a year ago (MVP). Brady and Favre are not the norm.
With all due respect, your buddies aren't very bright. No reasonably informed person can look at the Vikings and go "oh...hey, Cousins is the problem there!" I mean it's laughable.
Also, Rodgers is 5 years older than Cousins. I would say Cousins is at least three years away from any kind of age-related decline. And the QBs who continue to play good football into their late 30s and early 40s tend to be the ones who don't have a pile of injuries in their history.
They also tend to be the ones that don't take a lot of big hits which we know Kirk has taken.
Do they? I don't think there's a data set for that. There is for injuries and you can see a direct correlation between the amount of injuries and the amount of years played.
I'm not sure taking a hit that doesn't result in some kind of debilitating pain or injury is a factor at all. But who knows. Probably takes a toll over time I suppose.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ pattersaur said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ purplefaithful said:
I agree that the Bradbury situation is a tricky one to navigate. He may have reached his ceiling play wise and the $/terms will be the deciding factor. Plus some other team may just decide he's the cats meow and give him a deal he cant refuse.
Either way, we are all in agreement the Vikings need to get "stouter" in the trenches for both their lines.
Am very much looking forward to the next 5/6 weeks.
Theres nothing tricky with GB, hes hasn't shown to have the strength and anchor to be a starting center, especially for a pocket QB. If he went somewhere with a QB that can move and avoid the rush, he will probably have a decent career, but there is still the matter of him not being able to move anybody.
I don't disagree, but you do need to give him credit cerebrally since he is good at managing the protections. There was a notable drop-off when Schlottman took over. Bradbury is also one of the best centers in space in the NFL. So it kind of boils down to him being a flawed player.
If you want to play in space he is exceptional. But there are just going to be matchups against larger NT/DT tackles where he is just going to have a tough afternoon. However, he did show signs of improvement prior to his injury. Nothing extraordinary, but progress.
Ultimately comes down to price point. He's worth keeping around since it just eliminates a new need. But if he wants high-end center money similar to Eric McCoy & Ryan Kelly ($12M/yr) I would pass. Hard part is that former high-end prospects always get overpaid if they reach FA so he may get it.
They (the Vikings) should get a good sense of the $ piece by the Combine correct?
I am sure the Vikings know what he is looking for at this point. Combine will only move that number up/down based on what they hear from other teams. Combine is really the start of FA since agents get a feel for their guys market. So next week will really dictate if he will re-sign or will re-test the market. I guess I would be a little surprised if he didn't at least test the waters since the Vikings aren't about to tag him.
And color me "old fashioned" but I think so much of this is influenced and revolves around the QB. What they do with KC is really going to drive what flex they have in FA.
Second to that would be the next tier of players in Cook, Thielen P2 and Kendricks...
If the Vikings already have a sense of what the players might be asking for, when does this all need to get resolved by?
The legal tampering period?
I haven't heard anything on Kirk rumors lately, time will tell on that one, also a combine topic. Odds are that they try to extend him yet again assuming the price point makes sense. I could see the Vikings wanting to wait on Derek Carr to sign since that is a good data point to leverage Kirk off of. At this point Kirk realistically will be looking for $40M on yet another short-term deal. So I guess you could say the Vikings are hoping Carr gets closer to $30-35M.
While Kirk has always set the precedence he'll only sign guaranteed deals if the Vikings could get him for $105 - $112.5M/3 years with only $60-70M guaranteed I think they'd jump on it. That just gives you the room to really massage the salary cap. In this scenario they can save $10-15M on the cap this year and still have him on a cap number close to $30M in 2024.
Going against the odds, I personally wouldn't be too surprised if they let him play his contract out. They can still move some of his roster bonus out if they would like to free up a bit of cap space, but it just gets them out of the year to year business. At some point the Vikings need to dictate you either need to re-sign for term or we can't continue to do this. Of course this doesn't prevent them from resigning him after the 2023 season at all. But it does really bring into focus the need for a young QB on the roster. They can just be selective on who that is.
But all of this will probably need to be decided in pencil by the legal tampering period.
God my buddies are gonna clown me so hard if the Vikings sign Kirk for THREE more years. He's a good player but at what point does the team say-- well, this isn't really working so...
Also Matt Ryan and Phillip Rivers scare me to death as far as QBs falling off a cliff. Even Rodgers this past season was a sharp drop off from just a year ago (MVP). Brady and Favre are not the norm.
With all due respect, your buddies aren't very bright. No reasonably informed person can look at the Vikings and go "oh...hey, Cousins is the problem there!" I mean it's laughable.
Also, Rodgers is 5 years older than Cousins. I would say Cousins is at least three years away from any kind of age-related decline. And the QBs who continue to play good football into their late 30s and early 40s tend to be the ones who don't have a pile of injuries in their history.
You're right about my buddies haha but they might not be wrong about this. I live in the Midwest now and they're Chief fans (yep, must be nice) and Packers fans. The Vikings can keep beating the Packers once or even twice a year every year for the next-- gulp, three seasons-- and they will still have next to zero worry of the Vikings ever winning a Super Bowl with Kirk. The media is the same way. Hopefully they'll all be wrong.
Also, @AGRforever said- "The QBs who can take a bad team and elevate them to elite are extremely rare (2-3 per decade?)"... disagree.
1. The Vikings aren't currently a bad team.2. A QB can be a part of an elite team by playing well, by having a cheap contract, by leadership, by... list goes on. Hurts, Mahomes, Burrow, Brady, Allen, Herbert, Lawrence, Stafford have all come to new teams in recent years and helped them out significantly. Russell Wilson and Deshaun Watson might join this list next season too.
3. I'm not saying kick Kirk to the curb. That'd be dumb. But the Vikings need to get SOMETHING in the pipeline soon or three more seasons will pass and whoever our next GM is will be looking at giving Kirk yet another year or two until he's old and grey.
It’s a strawman argument to say that you need to breakup
with Kirk in order to try and find a better option out there. This isn’t monogamy. Teams have multiple QBs on their roster at
all times, and it is perfectly acceptable to try and get better or cheaper at
each and every position, and with the cap increasing every year the punishment
for having to get out of an expensive QB contract isn’t that brutal if you can
plan for a year or two in the future.
Mahomes was drafted when the team had a Cousins caliber QB. Rodgers was drafted when the team had a HOF
caliber QB. Rivers was drafted when they
had Brees. You can make it work.
I think it’s also a strawman argument to say that there’s
only 2-3 QBs a decade capable of carrying a garbage team to the SB. That is not the bar you are trying to get
over. If your team sucks so bad that you
need a generational talent to carry it’s limp dead corpse across the finish
line, you have bigger problems and it’s probably not going to work anyway. If you expand the pool a bit to guys that can
take an average roster deep into the playoffs every year, you get more options. Furthermore, if you expand the pool to guys
that can take a loaded roster deep into the playoffs while they are on a cheap
rookie contract, the options are even more expanded.
But expanding on the thought that there’s a limited amount
of “elite” QBs. Just for easy math lets
say there’s 5 elite-ish QBs every decade out of a pool of the top 5 QBs in
every draft year, so that’s 5 elite-ish QBs out of 50. That means that for every 10 QBs you draft,
you’ll get 1 elite-ish QB and if you draft a QB every other year, it’ll take
you around 20 years to get a guy that can you a SB. Now lets compare that to these upper mid
level expensive veteran QBs, guys like Stafford, Ryan, Cousins, Prescott, Carr,
etc. How many years will it take to put
together a perfect roster to carry them to a SB? If it’s less then 20, just try to maximize
your roster around that QB. If it’s
higher than 20 spend more time trying to get an elite QB. Obviously those are made up numbers, but you can
plug whatever numbers you want into the equation. I tend to think a Cousins caliber QB is going
to win one SB every 2 careers (30-40 years) that they play. I think it’s just a quicker process to draft
that rare elite QB than to try and put together the perfect roster that a
Cousins caliber QB can win a SB with.
I think the best plan is to keep drafting a QB every other
year, so you always avoid paying mediocre QBs premium money. I’d rather try to find that next Prescott and
try and win a SB with them on a rookie contract, than lock it in and try and win
with them on a premium contract. I’d
like to have that next guy in the pipeline so it doesn’t feel like a massive
loss. And if you struggle with getting
that next guy, I’d pay the veteran similar to what we’re doing with Kirk, where
we’re paying him well but not guaranteed for a long time, and once you find a Mahomes,
Jackson, Watson, Hurt, Allen, Burrows, Herbert, etc. jettison that expensive vet. And if you find a truly elite QB, just keep
them until the wheels fall off.
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