The defense has been dogshit for 2 years now, I don't care what they do, just do something.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
We screwed the pooch when we apparently failed to offer Nielsen. This organization is arrogant enough to think guys a step away from HC gigs want to come rebuild a defense with gaping holes.
I agree, and the bottom line is this is not a good job in contrast to other opportunities around the league. If I'm a potential DC candidate, I'm looking at the shit show the defense was last season, the fact that we are 24 million in the hole with the salary cap and you just don't know what you are going to have to work with when you actually start training camp. A lot of veteran talent is going to have to be cut and if KOC is trying to pigeonhole you into this scheme he want's to play...no thanks. We might be stuck with Pettine.
I know I've said this before, but if we open this thing up again for more interviews can we please get someone from that Bengals staff to come in and interview.
Since the cap is a myth the Vikings are in an ok spot all things considered, compared against other teams against the cap at least. Brian O'Neill's contract was built to restructure so once that happens they'll only be about $13M over the cap and an extension for Hockenson will save another $5M or so. So starting about $8M over the cap before releasing a single player. If they extend Kirk again they honestly may be at the cap. A Dalvin Tomlinson extension would help them as well.
All of those extensions are cash for cap. So the 2023 cash budget won't be changing. E.G Hockenson's 2023 comp would still be around the $9M he is set to make now. Only Tomlinson would be adding additional cash. So they can make all of these moves and just move up when the cash is due without "spending" additional money this year.
If that is the case (and with Flores now in the fold) who do you see as veterans either likely cut or potentially traded this offseason? Harrison Smith, Zadarius, Kendricks, Cook, Thielen, etc. Who has the best chance of not returning next season?
Subject to change since so much will happen at the combine. But tend to think Za'Darius is back on his current deal. One of Kendrciks/Hicks is gone. Feel like they could extend Kendricks since he fits Flores' system. Unless he has someone else in-mind. Harrison back on a straight pay-cut and both Cook/Thielen are released. Combined with O'Neill & Hockenson that gets them to nearly $20M in space before touching Kirk's deal. It also purges the cap in many ways since you're removing Thielen/Cooks big money deals with no dead money left by 2024.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
We screwed the pooch when we apparently failed to offer Nielsen. This organization is arrogant enough to think guys a step away from HC gigs want to come rebuild a defense with gaping holes.
I agree, and the bottom line is this is not a good job in contrast to other opportunities around the league. If I'm a potential DC candidate, I'm looking at the shit show the defense was last season, the fact that we are 24 million in the hole with the salary cap and you just don't know what you are going to have to work with when you actually start training camp. A lot of veteran talent is going to have to be cut and if KOC is trying to pigeonhole you into this scheme he want's to play...no thanks. We might be stuck with Pettine.
I know I've said this before, but if we open this thing up again for more interviews can we please get someone from that Bengals staff to come in and interview.
Since the cap is a myth the Vikings are in an ok spot all things considered, compared against other teams against the cap at least. Brian O'Neill's contract was built to restructure so once that happens they'll only be about $13M over the cap and an extension for Hockenson will save another $5M or so. So starting about $8M over the cap before releasing a single player. If they extend Kirk again they honestly may be at the cap. A Dalvin Tomlinson extension would help them as well.
All of those extensions are cash for cap. So the 2023 cash budget won't be changing. E.G Hockenson's 2023 comp would still be around the $9M he is set to make now. Only Tomlinson would be adding additional cash. So they can make all of these moves and just move up when the cash is due without "spending" additional money this year.
If that is the case (and with Flores now in the fold) who do you see as veterans either likely cut or potentially traded this offseason? Harrison Smith, Zadarius, Kendricks, Cook, Thielen, etc. Who has the best chance of not returning next season?
Subject to change since so much will happen at the combine. But tend to think Za'Darius is back on his current deal. One of Kendrciks/Hicks is gone. Feel like they could extend Kendricks since he fits Flores' system. Unless he has someone else in-mind. Harrison back on a straight pay-cut and both Cook/Thielen are released. Combined with O'Neill & Hockenson that gets them to nearly $20M in space before touching Kirk's deal. It also purges the cap in many ways since you're removing Thielen/Cooks big money deals with no dead money left by 2024.
@ the bold...
I would be shocked if they were both released and it feels like some really big bullets pulled from the O. I would love to see them keep D.Cook at a reduced rate.
In your scenario, I could see the Vikings drafting a WR pretty high this year and I wonder if they would try to keep Mattison?
Quote: @purplefaithful said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
@ mgobluevikes said:
We screwed the pooch when we apparently failed to offer Nielsen. This organization is arrogant enough to think guys a step away from HC gigs want to come rebuild a defense with gaping holes.
I agree, and the bottom line is this is not a good job in contrast to other opportunities around the league. If I'm a potential DC candidate, I'm looking at the shit show the defense was last season, the fact that we are 24 million in the hole with the salary cap and you just don't know what you are going to have to work with when you actually start training camp. A lot of veteran talent is going to have to be cut and if KOC is trying to pigeonhole you into this scheme he want's to play...no thanks. We might be stuck with Pettine.
I know I've said this before, but if we open this thing up again for more interviews can we please get someone from that Bengals staff to come in and interview.
Since the cap is a myth the Vikings are in an ok spot all things considered, compared against other teams against the cap at least. Brian O'Neill's contract was built to restructure so once that happens they'll only be about $13M over the cap and an extension for Hockenson will save another $5M or so. So starting about $8M over the cap before releasing a single player. If they extend Kirk again they honestly may be at the cap. A Dalvin Tomlinson extension would help them as well.
All of those extensions are cash for cap. So the 2023 cash budget won't be changing. E.G Hockenson's 2023 comp would still be around the $9M he is set to make now. Only Tomlinson would be adding additional cash. So they can make all of these moves and just move up when the cash is due without "spending" additional money this year.
If that is the case (and with Flores now in the fold) who do you see as veterans either likely cut or potentially traded this offseason? Harrison Smith, Zadarius, Kendricks, Cook, Thielen, etc. Who has the best chance of not returning next season?
Subject to change since so much will happen at the combine. But tend to think Za'Darius is back on his current deal. One of Kendrciks/Hicks is gone. Feel like they could extend Kendricks since he fits Flores' system. Unless he has someone else in-mind. Harrison back on a straight pay-cut and both Cook/Thielen are released. Combined with O'Neill & Hockenson that gets them to nearly $20M in space before touching Kirk's deal. It also purges the cap in many ways since you're removing Thielen/Cooks big money deals with no dead money left by 2024.
@ the bold...
I would be shocked if they were both released and it feels like some really big bullets pulled from the O. I would love to see them keep D.Cook at a reduced rate.
In your scenario, I could see the Vikings drafting a WR pretty high this year and I wonder if they would try to keep Mattison?
Odds are probably against it, but the issue with Cook is that his base salary is only $10.4M and there are no guarantees. As a RB in your late 20's the lack of guarantees is a bit frightening. So a new contract makes sense, whether they want to do that with MN or not is the question. How the RB market shapes up will matter. If Pollard, Miles Sanders, Saquon, etc. hit FA the Vikings have all the negotiating power. If those guys are franchise tagger or extended that shifts is back into Dalvin's camp.
I don't necessarily think they'll want to bonus restructure him so a straight-pay cut makes sense. But that doesn't fix 2024+ so its either a scenario where the Vikings will need to cut years off his contract in trade for short-term guarantees. Or they could straight-up redo the entire contract.
I think Cook is still an elite RB and his drop off this year was mainly due to the scheme of the offense. We knew coming in that KOC wanted to throw the ball around, utilize Jefferson as the focal point of the offense, and that all increased with the addition of Hockenson. I don't think they did enough of trying to get Cook out in space and lost some opportunities on that end. I hope that's something that changes this year if Cook is kept.
Quote: @supafreak84 said:
I think Cook is still an elite RB and his drop off this year was mainly due to the scheme of the offense. We knew coming in that KOC wanted to throw the ball around, utilize Jefferson as the focal point of the offense, and that all increased with the addition of Hockenson. I don't think they did enough of trying to get Cook out in space and lost some opportunities on that end. I hope that's something that changes this year if Cook is kept.
I think DC is starting to see the decline of his physical abilities, his career now is going to be more dependent on all the other things like reading defenses, setting up blockers, selling fakes and routes, etc. his quickness and agility seem to have left him at times this season.
Vikings have some salaries they need to deal with. There'll be dead cap money. Its probably not as bad as some media members make it out to be (what a shocker) but its also going to give a little heartburn.
Love to keep Dalvin, but I'd also love to have a better defense. If we have to sacrifice a few things on offense (Thielen, Cook) to achieve that, I'm down.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
Love to keep Dalvin, but I'd also love to have a better defense. If we have to sacrifice a few things on offense (Thielen, Cook) to achieve that, I'm down.
Yes. Especially with a deep draft at Receiver and RB where you can add affordable talent. I would have no problem adding a stud receiver at 23 and use Free Agency and the draft to address Corner, RB, and Center. I would still like to keep Thielen if we can work out a new contract but he may be unwilling to do that and want a fresh start elsewhere. Not sure what his relationship is with KOC, but It didn't always look healthy.
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