Quote: @greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ JR44 said:
Meanwhile Javon Kearse continues to be a force as the starting safety for a top 5 defense. Never understood why Harris played ahead of him.
because Ant was a Zim guy, he played within a system and knew his role, Kearse wasnt a role player, he was a gamer and Zim wouldnt allow that type of free thinking in his system. you do it Zims way, or you dont do it for Zim. it worked well until it didnt, this isnt to say that Ant isnt a good player or as good as Kearse, just different pegs trying to fit into different holes, sometimes though one looks like it fits until it drops right through, and sometimes the fucking peg just gets wedged in where it didnt belong in the first place.
Because you need players to do their job within a defense. He wasn't a gamer, he was selfish. A gamer is one who plays better in big moments. Kearse wanted highlights for himself rather than to win the game. He may have grown up since bouncing around because he still sucked in Detroit. Kearse had the physical tools, but like so many others, thought he was better than he actually was and didn't do the film study.
There is a reason the young dbs are praising PP on our team. Film study is how you take your physical abilities and become elite. Everyone in the NFL is physically gifted. But the ones that apply it become stars and I haven't heard Kearse mentioned as a star before, just a member of a top D.
I've never heard any knock on him when he was here about not studying film or not knowing his position. Just that he was immature and a bit brash, which is what likely got him into zims dog house to begin with. Harris wasn't anything special either so I don't think it was a matter of ability or knowledge between the two, it seemed Zim just wanted a yes man and Kearse wasn't that guy. They both made nice plays at times and the both screwed the pooch at times.
The Eagles disagree. They gave Harris a twice the money that Kearse got fron Detroit. Perhaps too much, but he did get paid. Seems Zim's D filled with Yes men (Rhodes, Mac, Waynes, Harris, Barr, EK, Hunter) all got rich for their talent of being yes men. Maybe Zim was a good coach and knew what he was talking about.
Kearse is just a guy. Talented, but nothing special. He is what he is. Meanwhile Zim's guys have made good money.
And yes, Rhodes, Mac and EK are sarcastically included in the yes men category. Barr turned down more money elsewhere because he loved being a yes man.
Zimmer failed as a head coach, but his defensive scheme was always near the top. Imitated and intimidating until he lost his anchor, his swiss army knife LB and all his CBs. Without pressure and without coverage, he couldn't run his scheme. Doubt anyone could have.
the eagles also passed on Jefferson for Reagor so...
Harris is a FA and Kearse is part of one of the top Ds in the game and one of the top contenders for a ring, Harris is still a FA after his 2nd team in as many years parted ways with him. I am not trying to tear down Ant, I really like him as a player, but maybe, just maybe, Zimmer being a dick had as much to do with Kearse's lack of playing time as any lack of talent or other? as far as the rest... what have they really done besides getting paid? Rhodes declined so fast it wasnt funny, Waynes, Mac, and Harris never had a prime, Barr and Hunter have been disappointments after they got their big money ( Barr is in contention for the whatcouldabeen trophy since they passed on A A Ron Donald for him) and EK.... well I have nothing bad to say about EK, but without a dominant DT in front of him he really disappears in any scheme.
zimmer is a genius with a ton of upper middle class talent to work with, but is he really that smart when it takes upper tier athletes to make his schemes work? I dont think so since you cant win much when it takes that much cap space and draft capital to make only one side of the ball work. personally I think it was his lack of ability to work with what he had that led to his defensive failures, lots of successful coaches have done more with less, IMO that is the sign of true genius.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ JR44 said:
Meanwhile Javon Kearse continues to be a force as the starting safety for a top 5 defense. Never understood why Harris played ahead of him.
because Ant was a Zim guy, he played within a system and knew his role, Kearse wasnt a role player, he was a gamer and Zim wouldnt allow that type of free thinking in his system. you do it Zims way, or you dont do it for Zim. it worked well until it didnt, this isnt to say that Ant isnt a good player or as good as Kearse, just different pegs trying to fit into different holes, sometimes though one looks like it fits until it drops right through, and sometimes the fucking peg just gets wedged in where it didnt belong in the first place.
Because you need players to do their job within a defense. He wasn't a gamer, he was selfish. A gamer is one who plays better in big moments. Kearse wanted highlights for himself rather than to win the game. He may have grown up since bouncing around because he still sucked in Detroit. Kearse had the physical tools, but like so many others, thought he was better than he actually was and didn't do the film study.
There is a reason the young dbs are praising PP on our team. Film study is how you take your physical abilities and become elite. Everyone in the NFL is physically gifted. But the ones that apply it become stars and I haven't heard Kearse mentioned as a star before, just a member of a top D.
I've never heard any knock on him when he was here about not studying film or not knowing his position. Just that he was immature and a bit brash, which is what likely got him into zims dog house to begin with. Harris wasn't anything special either so I don't think it was a matter of ability or knowledge between the two, it seemed Zim just wanted a yes man and Kearse wasn't that guy. They both made nice plays at times and the both screwed the pooch at times.
The Eagles disagree. They gave Harris a twice the money that Kearse got fron Detroit. Perhaps too much, but he did get paid. Seems Zim's D filled with Yes men (Rhodes, Mac, Waynes, Harris, Barr, EK, Hunter) all got rich for their talent of being yes men. Maybe Zim was a good coach and knew what he was talking about.
Kearse is just a guy. Talented, but nothing special. He is what he is. Meanwhile Zim's guys have made good money.
And yes, Rhodes, Mac and EK are sarcastically included in the yes men category. Barr turned down more money elsewhere because he loved being a yes man.
Zimmer failed as a head coach, but his defensive scheme was always near the top. Imitated and intimidating until he lost his anchor, his swiss army knife LB and all his CBs. Without pressure and without coverage, he couldn't run his scheme. Doubt anyone could have.
the eagles also passed on Jefferson for Reagor so...
Harris is a FA and Kearse is part of one of the top Ds in the game and one of the top contenders for a ring, Harris is still a FA after his 2nd team in as many years parted ways with him. I am not trying to tear down Ant, I really like him as a player, but maybe, just maybe, Zimmer being a dick had as much to do with Kearse's lack of playing time as any lack of talent or other? as far as the rest... what have they really done besides getting paid? Rhodes declined so fast it wasnt funny, Waynes, Mac, and Harris never had a prime, Barr and Hunter have been disappointments after they got their big money ( Barr is in contention for the whatcouldabeen trophy since they passed on A A Ron Donald for him) and EK.... well I have nothing bad to say about EK, but without a dominant DT in front of him he really disappears in any scheme.
zimmer is a genius with a ton of upper middle class talent to work with, but is he really that smart when it takes upper tier athletes to make his schemes work? I dont think so since you cant win much when it takes that much cap space and draft capital to make only one side of the ball work. personally I think it was his lack of ability to work with what he had that led to his defensive failures, lots of successful coaches have done more with less, IMO that is the sign of true genius.
So he made Ant into a star, but only succeeds with upper tier athletes?
Again, Kearse is just a guy. On a very good D. Being nothing special and being a bonehead, what is the reason to keep him around. So maybe Zim was right. Ant played well in our D, Kearse has done nothing to show he was better than Harris back then. Still hasn't.
Again, Zimmer's scheme made these guys rich, made them stars. Them going on and failing elsewhere only makes that point. But ending up with 2 rookies and a castoff bonehead at CB, his scheme couldn't hold up. Neither does Donatell's when he doesn't have the DBs.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ JR44 said:
Meanwhile Javon Kearse continues to be a force as the starting safety for a top 5 defense. Never understood why Harris played ahead of him.
because Ant was a Zim guy, he played within a system and knew his role, Kearse wasnt a role player, he was a gamer and Zim wouldnt allow that type of free thinking in his system. you do it Zims way, or you dont do it for Zim. it worked well until it didnt, this isnt to say that Ant isnt a good player or as good as Kearse, just different pegs trying to fit into different holes, sometimes though one looks like it fits until it drops right through, and sometimes the fucking peg just gets wedged in where it didnt belong in the first place.
Because you need players to do their job within a defense. He wasn't a gamer, he was selfish. A gamer is one who plays better in big moments. Kearse wanted highlights for himself rather than to win the game. He may have grown up since bouncing around because he still sucked in Detroit. Kearse had the physical tools, but like so many others, thought he was better than he actually was and didn't do the film study.
There is a reason the young dbs are praising PP on our team. Film study is how you take your physical abilities and become elite. Everyone in the NFL is physically gifted. But the ones that apply it become stars and I haven't heard Kearse mentioned as a star before, just a member of a top D.
I've never heard any knock on him when he was here about not studying film or not knowing his position. Just that he was immature and a bit brash, which is what likely got him into zims dog house to begin with. Harris wasn't anything special either so I don't think it was a matter of ability or knowledge between the two, it seemed Zim just wanted a yes man and Kearse wasn't that guy. They both made nice plays at times and the both screwed the pooch at times.
The Eagles disagree. They gave Harris a twice the money that Kearse got fron Detroit. Perhaps too much, but he did get paid. Seems Zim's D filled with Yes men (Rhodes, Mac, Waynes, Harris, Barr, EK, Hunter) all got rich for their talent of being yes men. Maybe Zim was a good coach and knew what he was talking about.
Kearse is just a guy. Talented, but nothing special. He is what he is. Meanwhile Zim's guys have made good money.
And yes, Rhodes, Mac and EK are sarcastically included in the yes men category. Barr turned down more money elsewhere because he loved being a yes man.
Zimmer failed as a head coach, but his defensive scheme was always near the top. Imitated and intimidating until he lost his anchor, his swiss army knife LB and all his CBs. Without pressure and without coverage, he couldn't run his scheme. Doubt anyone could have.
the eagles also passed on Jefferson for Reagor so...
Harris is a FA and Kearse is part of one of the top Ds in the game and one of the top contenders for a ring, Harris is still a FA after his 2nd team in as many years parted ways with him. I am not trying to tear down Ant, I really like him as a player, but maybe, just maybe, Zimmer being a dick had as much to do with Kearse's lack of playing time as any lack of talent or other? as far as the rest... what have they really done besides getting paid? Rhodes declined so fast it wasnt funny, Waynes, Mac, and Harris never had a prime, Barr and Hunter have been disappointments after they got their big money ( Barr is in contention for the whatcouldabeen trophy since they passed on A A Ron Donald for him) and EK.... well I have nothing bad to say about EK, but without a dominant DT in front of him he really disappears in any scheme.
zimmer is a genius with a ton of upper middle class talent to work with, but is he really that smart when it takes upper tier athletes to make his schemes work? I dont think so since you cant win much when it takes that much cap space and draft capital to make only one side of the ball work. personally I think it was his lack of ability to work with what he had that led to his defensive failures, lots of successful coaches have done more with less, IMO that is the sign of true genius.
So he made Ant into a star, but only succeeds with upper tier athletes?
Again, Kearse is just a guy. On a very good D. Being nothing special and being a bonehead, what is the reason to keep him around. So maybe Zim was right. Ant played well in our D, Kearse has done nothing to show he was better than Harris back then. Still hasn't.
Again, Zimmer's scheme made these guys rich, made them stars. Them going on and failing elsewhere only makes that point. But ending up with 2 rookies and a castoff bonehead at CB, his scheme couldn't hold up. Neither does Donatell's when he doesn't have the DBs.
A star? come on man, i know you really really love zimmer, but that is some deep stretching right there. the fact that they are a bunch of upper middle tier athletes made the scheme work as much as zimmers scheme, if it was zimmers scheme it should have been more affective with average nfl talent, but it wasnt.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ JR44 said:
Meanwhile Javon Kearse continues to be a force as the starting safety for a top 5 defense. Never understood why Harris played ahead of him.
because Ant was a Zim guy, he played within a system and knew his role, Kearse wasnt a role player, he was a gamer and Zim wouldnt allow that type of free thinking in his system. you do it Zims way, or you dont do it for Zim. it worked well until it didnt, this isnt to say that Ant isnt a good player or as good as Kearse, just different pegs trying to fit into different holes, sometimes though one looks like it fits until it drops right through, and sometimes the fucking peg just gets wedged in where it didnt belong in the first place.
Because you need players to do their job within a defense. He wasn't a gamer, he was selfish. A gamer is one who plays better in big moments. Kearse wanted highlights for himself rather than to win the game. He may have grown up since bouncing around because he still sucked in Detroit. Kearse had the physical tools, but like so many others, thought he was better than he actually was and didn't do the film study.
There is a reason the young dbs are praising PP on our team. Film study is how you take your physical abilities and become elite. Everyone in the NFL is physically gifted. But the ones that apply it become stars and I haven't heard Kearse mentioned as a star before, just a member of a top D.
I've never heard any knock on him when he was here about not studying film or not knowing his position. Just that he was immature and a bit brash, which is what likely got him into zims dog house to begin with. Harris wasn't anything special either so I don't think it was a matter of ability or knowledge between the two, it seemed Zim just wanted a yes man and Kearse wasn't that guy. They both made nice plays at times and the both screwed the pooch at times.
The Eagles disagree. They gave Harris a twice the money that Kearse got fron Detroit. Perhaps too much, but he did get paid. Seems Zim's D filled with Yes men (Rhodes, Mac, Waynes, Harris, Barr, EK, Hunter) all got rich for their talent of being yes men. Maybe Zim was a good coach and knew what he was talking about.
Kearse is just a guy. Talented, but nothing special. He is what he is. Meanwhile Zim's guys have made good money.
And yes, Rhodes, Mac and EK are sarcastically included in the yes men category. Barr turned down more money elsewhere because he loved being a yes man.
Zimmer failed as a head coach, but his defensive scheme was always near the top. Imitated and intimidating until he lost his anchor, his swiss army knife LB and all his CBs. Without pressure and without coverage, he couldn't run his scheme. Doubt anyone could have.
the eagles also passed on Jefferson for Reagor so...
Harris is a FA and Kearse is part of one of the top Ds in the game and one of the top contenders for a ring, Harris is still a FA after his 2nd team in as many years parted ways with him. I am not trying to tear down Ant, I really like him as a player, but maybe, just maybe, Zimmer being a dick had as much to do with Kearse's lack of playing time as any lack of talent or other? as far as the rest... what have they really done besides getting paid? Rhodes declined so fast it wasnt funny, Waynes, Mac, and Harris never had a prime, Barr and Hunter have been disappointments after they got their big money ( Barr is in contention for the whatcouldabeen trophy since they passed on A A Ron Donald for him) and EK.... well I have nothing bad to say about EK, but without a dominant DT in front of him he really disappears in any scheme.
zimmer is a genius with a ton of upper middle class talent to work with, but is he really that smart when it takes upper tier athletes to make his schemes work? I dont think so since you cant win much when it takes that much cap space and draft capital to make only one side of the ball work. personally I think it was his lack of ability to work with what he had that led to his defensive failures, lots of successful coaches have done more with less, IMO that is the sign of true genius.
So he made Ant into a star, but only succeeds with upper tier athletes?
Again, Kearse is just a guy. On a very good D. Being nothing special and being a bonehead, what is the reason to keep him around. So maybe Zim was right. Ant played well in our D, Kearse has done nothing to show he was better than Harris back then. Still hasn't.
Again, Zimmer's scheme made these guys rich, made them stars. Them going on and failing elsewhere only makes that point. But ending up with 2 rookies and a castoff bonehead at CB, his scheme couldn't hold up. Neither does Donatell's when he doesn't have the DBs.
A star? come on man, i know you really really love zimmer, but that is some deep stretching right there. the fact that they are a bunch of upper middle tier athletes made the scheme work as much as zimmers scheme, if it was zimmers scheme it should have been more affective with average nfl talent, but it wasnt.
More of a star than Kearse ever was. His claim so far is being a part of a good D.
As to your last line, what is it? Were the players average, or were that excellent? Could Zimmer judge talent or not? Could he teach the game? Could he design some damn good defenses, or was it all the talent on this team that suddenly disappeared.
Harris was undrafted if I remember correctly. Hunter was a mid round pick. Rhodes blossomed under Zim. Barr took less to stay. You can't have it both ways, Zimmer had a damn tough D until the DBs were rookies and a the KC castoff. And he also lost his anchor when the big FA sat out the covid year and Barr got hurt. Would love to see an example of any D doing well running 2 rookie CBs, without their star LB and NT. Barr's backup Wilson wasn't NFL average.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ JR44 said:
Meanwhile Javon Kearse continues to be a force as the starting safety for a top 5 defense. Never understood why Harris played ahead of him.
the eagles also passed on Jefferson for Reagor so...
Harris is a FA and Kearse is part of one of the top Ds in the game and one of the top contenders for a ring, Harris is still a FA after his 2nd team in as many years parted ways with him. I am not trying to tear down Ant, I really like him as a player, but maybe, just maybe, Zimmer being a dick had as much to do with Kearse's lack of playing time as any lack of talent or other? as far as the rest... what have they really done besides getting paid? Rhodes declined so fast it wasnt funny, Waynes, Mac, and Harris never had a prime, Barr and Hunter have been disappointments after they got their big money ( Barr is in contention for the whatcouldabeen trophy since they passed on A A Ron Donald for him) and EK.... well I have nothing bad to say about EK, but without a dominant DT in front of him he really disappears in any scheme.
zimmer is a genius with a ton of upper middle class talent to work with, but is he really that smart when it takes upper tier athletes to make his schemes work? I dont think so since you cant win much when it takes that much cap space and draft capital to make only one side of the ball work. personally I think it was his lack of ability to work with what he had that led to his defensive failures, lots of successful coaches have done more with less, IMO that is the sign of true genius.
So he made Ant into a star, but only succeeds with upper tier athletes?
Again, Kearse is just a guy. On a very good D. Being nothing special and being a bonehead, what is the reason to keep him around. So maybe Zim was right. Ant played well in our D, Kearse has done nothing to show he was better than Harris back then. Still hasn't.
Again, Zimmer's scheme made these guys rich, made them stars. Them going on and failing elsewhere only makes that point. But ending up with 2 rookies and a castoff bonehead at CB, his scheme couldn't hold up. Neither does Donatell's when he doesn't have the DBs.
A star? come on man, i know you really really love zimmer, but that is some deep stretching right there. the fact that they are a bunch of upper middle tier athletes made the scheme work as much as zimmers scheme, if it was zimmers scheme it should have been more affective with average nfl talent, but it wasnt.
More of a star than Kearse ever was. His claim so far is being a part of a good D.
As to your last line, what is it? Were the players average, or were that excellent? Could Zimmer judge talent or not? Could he teach the game? Could he design some damn good defenses, or was it all the talent on this team that suddenly disappeared.
Harris was undrafted if I remember correctly. Hunter was a mid round pick. Rhodes blossomed under Zim. Barr took less to stay. You can't have it both ways, Zimmer had a damn tough D until the DBs were rookies and a the KC castoff. And he also lost his anchor when the big FA sat out the covid year and Barr got hurt. Would love to see an example of any D doing well running 2 rookie CBs, without their star LB and NT. Barr's backup Wilson wasn't NFL average.
Wilson played better in the same D than Barr did when given opportunities. Barr in another D would have been exposed as nothing special and thats why he stayed IMO, lets not martyr him, he didn't make much less staying in MN. I bought into the hype his first couple years but he never turned into much more than hype. Like I said, they threw a bunch of draft picks and cap money at the D and it worked, until they had to focus on the O and then zimmers vaunted defense couldn't do shit. How many DBs did the DB guru actually ever develop? Rhodes was coming around before zim got here, but made a big step in that D that was getting after QBs, but seriously, what did he do with average talent like so many other coaches have had to deal with. You can't give him a ton of credit for being a genius when he had all the tools he wanted and then some, they weren't all stars, but above average talent and much more than most teams had on one side of the ball.
I guess we time will tell, but its been 3 days and Harris is still a free agent, played in only 3 games for Denver and didn't have 1 stat to show for it. He was just a nice complementary player, hardly a star as has been proven out the last couple years. His big deal with Philly was only a 1 year deal for 5 million in 21, and he's been on a practice squad all year until the last month. Again, neither are much more than nice players, bit one is starting safety for a playoff team and one is waiting for his phone to ring.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ JR44 said:
Meanwhile Javon Kearse continues to be a force as the starting safety for a top 5 defense. Never understood why Harris played ahead of him.
the eagles also passed on Jefferson for Reagor so...
Harris is a FA and Kearse is part of one of the top Ds in the game and one of the top contenders for a ring, Harris is still a FA after his 2nd team in as many years parted ways with him. I am not trying to tear down Ant, I really like him as a player, but maybe, just maybe, Zimmer being a dick had as much to do with Kearse's lack of playing time as any lack of talent or other? as far as the rest... what have they really done besides getting paid? Rhodes declined so fast it wasnt funny, Waynes, Mac, and Harris never had a prime, Barr and Hunter have been disappointments after they got their big money ( Barr is in contention for the whatcouldabeen trophy since they passed on A A Ron Donald for him) and EK.... well I have nothing bad to say about EK, but without a dominant DT in front of him he really disappears in any scheme.
zimmer is a genius with a ton of upper middle class talent to work with, but is he really that smart when it takes upper tier athletes to make his schemes work? I dont think so since you cant win much when it takes that much cap space and draft capital to make only one side of the ball work. personally I think it was his lack of ability to work with what he had that led to his defensive failures, lots of successful coaches have done more with less, IMO that is the sign of true genius.
So he made Ant into a star, but only succeeds with upper tier athletes?
Again, Kearse is just a guy. On a very good D. Being nothing special and being a bonehead, what is the reason to keep him around. So maybe Zim was right. Ant played well in our D, Kearse has done nothing to show he was better than Harris back then. Still hasn't.
Again, Zimmer's scheme made these guys rich, made them stars. Them going on and failing elsewhere only makes that point. But ending up with 2 rookies and a castoff bonehead at CB, his scheme couldn't hold up. Neither does Donatell's when he doesn't have the DBs.
A star? come on man, i know you really really love zimmer, but that is some deep stretching right there. the fact that they are a bunch of upper middle tier athletes made the scheme work as much as zimmers scheme, if it was zimmers scheme it should have been more affective with average nfl talent, but it wasnt.
More of a star than Kearse ever was. His claim so far is being a part of a good D.
As to your last line, what is it? Were the players average, or were that excellent? Could Zimmer judge talent or not? Could he teach the game? Could he design some damn good defenses, or was it all the talent on this team that suddenly disappeared.
Harris was undrafted if I remember correctly. Hunter was a mid round pick. Rhodes blossomed under Zim. Barr took less to stay. You can't have it both ways, Zimmer had a damn tough D until the DBs were rookies and a the KC castoff. And he also lost his anchor when the big FA sat out the covid year and Barr got hurt. Would love to see an example of any D doing well running 2 rookie CBs, without their star LB and NT. Barr's backup Wilson wasn't NFL average.
Wilson played better in the same D than Barr did when given opportunities.
![[Image: proxy-image?piurl=https%3A%2F%2Fencrypte...c0ff0cf87d]](https://www.startpage.com/av/proxy-image?piurl=https%3A%2F%2Fencrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcQhjOb6ukkuX75pt5x-_F9mwLwdERtNYWu_SIz7Xhu6Xb-8GKY%26s&sp=1670867995T44414ca86976e9e44540ca2da0ebfad8f1865f96021e5b02cf38adc0ff0cf87d)
looks like the Eagles picked him up again…
Quote: @Kentis said:
looks like the Eagles picked him up again…
Eagles are prepared for injuries. Wish we had their checkbook).
Quote: @kmillard said:
@ Kentis said:
looks like the Eagles picked him up again…
Eagles are prepared for injuries. Wish we had their checkbook).
Decent QB on a rookie deal makes all the difference.
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