Diggs v JJ

[Guest]

@medaille said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@

the cap increase will be offset by increases that FAs all expect to get,  problem is the cap increase doesnt seem to cover all the positional increases.  The Vikings seem to be slipping a little further every year into the cap trap that ultimately ends up crippling some teams.  We have KC under contract for only 1 more season,  however his cap is spread clear into 25 to make it work.  This isnt something the Vikings ever used to do IIRC,  maybe 1 year dead money,  but I dont remember that much 2 years past the expiration date. ( like 6.25 in both 24 and 25)

Just remember how long the Saints were able to keep stringing things along with Brees.  Eventually you have to pay the piper, but there's no bank to deny the loan.

And now they have a shit team with no cap or high draft picks.  And they really didn't get into cap trouble until after they had already won their lombardi.

[Guest]

@medaille said:
To me this is a comparison that is being made
inappropriately, because you need to separate the end results from the trade
itself and no one is looking at the trade itself, they are looking at the end
results.  The correct trade for the
Vikings is that the Vikings shouldn’t have traded Diggs at all.  The reason the Vikings shouldn’t have traded
Diggs is that you are taking a known high quality player and replacing them
with an unknown draft pick.  I’m sure someone
deep into analytics like Kwesi could spit out a detailed analysis into the
value of Diggs, vs the expected value of money and draft picks, but I think the
odds are that we lost the value equation by getting rid of Diggs.  Obviously Jefferson is on track to be an all
decade/HOF caliber receiver and that’s great, but the reality is that was a
very unlikely outcome.


Secondly, I think it’s inappropriate in the sense that it
makes it sound like it was a consensual trade between two willing
partners.  The Vikings didn’t choose to
trade Diggs shortly after resigning him to an extension.  He forced himself out.  We shouldn’t be patting ourselves on the back
too hard for making a trade when the choice was made for us and selecting the 4th
or 5th WR in that draft.


For me, I’m just happy that things turned out well.

I would disagree on 2 points.  First, we are fans, so making comparisons and discussing better or worse is what we do.

Secondly, I think the vikings were willing partners.  They could have played hardball since he just signed an extension.  Or they could have played softball and given Diggs more of what he wanted.  Kudos to the Vikings for making Diggs happy while getting good return on their trade.

[Guest]

@AGRforever said:

@JimmyinSD said:
we cant look at the extra picks and how they turned out since if the Vikings had drafted better with those additional the picks would have been more valuable.  As a Bills fan if they would rather have Diggs and the other guy,  or Jefferson and their other 3 picks and what would they say.  I am happy with the results myself,  but wish we would have had at least one more player to show for the additional picks.  Add on Jefferson playing for relative peanuts compared to what Diggs was set to make,  and the lack of drama with JJ... For me its a no brainer.  I would do the deal every year without question.

Its the lack of drama that makes Jefferson clear and away the winner in the deal. Pay the man.

In retrospect the drama seems to have stemmed from the one eyed Jack and his dysfunctional staff.

[Guest]

JJ and its not even close in my opinion

first round pick, versus Diggs fifth round pick

JJ almost immediate impact (after a couple games rookie year)
Diggs took a couple years to emerge / name & reputation has largely benefitted from “the miracle”

Diggs whined his way into more money, once he got paid, he “cryptically tweeted” his way out of town.

JJ becoming the face of the franchise after a season or two, Diggs I wouldnt consider that during his tenure here.

Diggs, Dont wanna be here AFTER getting paid?  “Well.......Bye”

Prefer JJ, and its not even close

[Guest]

Younger, less drama, less money. Advantage JJ.

You can make an argument that these are the two best receivers in the NFL. At the very least 2 among the top 5. And we drafted both of em. And before anyone says they were obvious picks, remember JJ was the 5th receiver taken and Diggs the 20th. 

[Guest]

@medaille said:
To me this is a comparison that is being made
inappropriately, because you need to separate the end results from the trade
itself and no one is looking at the trade itself, they are looking at the end
results.  The correct trade for the
Vikings is that the Vikings shouldn’t have traded Diggs at all.  The reason the Vikings shouldn’t have traded
Diggs is that you are taking a known high quality player and replacing them
with an unknown draft pick.  I’m sure someone
deep into analytics like Kwesi could spit out a detailed analysis into the
value of Diggs, vs the expected value of money and draft picks, but I think the
odds are that we lost the value equation by getting rid of Diggs.  Obviously Jefferson is on track to be an all
decade/HOF caliber receiver and that’s great, but the reality is that was a
very unlikely outcome.


Secondly, I think it’s inappropriate in the sense that it
makes it sound like it was a consensual trade between two willing
partners.  The Vikings didn’t choose to
trade Diggs shortly after resigning him to an extension.  He forced himself out.  We shouldn’t be patting ourselves on the back
too hard for making a trade when the choice was made for us and selecting the 4th
or 5th WR in that draft.


For me, I’m just happy that things turned out well.

You can also project Diggs becoming a bigger diva and team cancer if we did not grant him a trade that he really wanted.  He forced his way out and we got a first-round pick for a former 5th round pick - talk about value.  We picked right on Diggs in the 5th and then parlayed that into the right pick in JJ.  A lot of nuances involved in every trade/transaction but the fact that Diggs was most likely going to be a team head case is enough for me to know that we got the better end of the deal...IMO.  

[Guest]

@minny65 said:

@medaille said:
To me this is a comparison that is being made
inappropriately, because you need to separate the end results from the trade
itself and no one is looking at the trade itself, they are looking at the end
results.  The correct trade for the
Vikings is that the Vikings shouldn’t have traded Diggs at all.  The reason the Vikings shouldn’t have traded
Diggs is that you are taking a known high quality player and replacing them
with an unknown draft pick.  I’m sure someone
deep into analytics like Kwesi could spit out a detailed analysis into the
value of Diggs, vs the expected value of money and draft picks, but I think the
odds are that we lost the value equation by getting rid of Diggs.  Obviously Jefferson is on track to be an all
decade/HOF caliber receiver and that’s great, but the reality is that was a
very unlikely outcome.


Secondly, I think it’s inappropriate in the sense that it
makes it sound like it was a consensual trade between two willing
partners.  The Vikings didn’t choose to
trade Diggs shortly after resigning him to an extension.  He forced himself out.  We shouldn’t be patting ourselves on the back
too hard for making a trade when the choice was made for us and selecting the 4th
or 5th WR in that draft.


For me, I’m just happy that things turned out well.

You can also project Diggs becoming a bigger diva and team cancer if we did not grant him a trade that he really wanted.  He forced his way out and we got a first-round pick for a former 5th round pick - talk about value.  We picked right on Diggs in the 5th and then parlayed that into the right pick in JJ.  A lot of nuances involved in every trade/transaction but the fact that Diggs was most likely going to be a team head case is enough for me to know that we got the better end of the deal...IMO.  

Oh I posted this before reading the others who just mentioned Diggs being a 5th

[Guest]

Vikings were smart enough to jump on JJ when he dropped in their laps - and were awfully lucky he did too.

[Guest]

@purplefaithful said:
Vikings were smart enough to jump on JJ when he dropped in their laps - and were awfully lucky he did too.

Yes, JJ dropped into our laps after Eagles took Reagor
just as Darrisaw dropped into our laps as the Raiders took Leatherwood
Best two of Spelly's picks of late.  He will be doing it for someone else next season.

[Guest]

@medaille said:
To me this is a comparison that is being made
inappropriately, because you need to separate the end results from the trade
itself and no one is looking at the trade itself, they are looking at the end
results.  The correct trade for the
Vikings is that the Vikings shouldn’t have traded Diggs at all.  The reason the Vikings shouldn’t have traded
Diggs is that you are taking a known high quality player and replacing them
with an unknown draft pick.  I’m sure someone
deep into analytics like Kwesi could spit out a detailed analysis into the
value of Diggs, vs the expected value of money and draft picks, but I think the
odds are that we lost the value equation by getting rid of Diggs.  Obviously Jefferson is on track to be an all
decade/HOF caliber receiver and that’s great, but the reality is that was a
very unlikely outcome.


Secondly, I think it’s inappropriate in the sense that it
makes it sound like it was a consensual trade between two willing
partners.  The Vikings didn’t choose to
trade Diggs shortly after resigning him to an extension.  He forced himself out.  We shouldn’t be patting ourselves on the back
too hard for making a trade when the choice was made for us and selecting the 4th
or 5th WR in that draft.


For me, I’m just happy that things turned out well.

Minny65 begins to hit the nail on the head.  Diggs didn't want to be with the vikings anymore for whatever reason,  thinking he was going to be best utilized with the vikings for his career.  Whether that was Zimmer or not who knows.  At that point you have a disgruntled player.  They either leave once their contract is done and all you receive is a comp pick, or you trade them.  The Vikings elected to trade him.   

Now,  for the first 4 years we will have greatly won the trade.  We have received similar or better production,  with a much younger player on a much lower contract.  If you have a high salary QB like Cousins you are going to need to find elite players on cheap contracts and that is what we have with JJ and Darrisaw.  Now the question is will Cousins ever be willing to take a more reasonable contract to retain better players -  his previous MO says no.  However, he may have a different appreciation with this management and coaching group.  

However,  honestly once we pay JJ even though he is a younger player and will still likely be giving good stats,  he will ultimately not be as valuable due to the high pay. We will be paying him what we should be receiving.   Christian Darrisaw and JJ are going to cause some cap management issues if we still have Cousins at such a high level.  Add in Hockenson as well.  

We will have some players coming off or back at reduced levels.  Harry, Hunter?, Kendricks, Theilen, possibly Cook.   It will be fun managing the cap in future years.