The state of everything/economy

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:
I saw this today and made me think of this thread....

I guess I’m old fashion but we have every single one of those boxes checked on the keeping society running in our extended family and not a single one unless you count my wife (she would probably qualify as a minor edition) in the middle group

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:
I saw this today and made me think of this thread....

Kids don't want these blue collar jobs.....and not because they are 'looked down upon'. They're lazy and entitled. No matter how hard some of us old timers want the younger generation to embrace these jobs, they aren't. I told an anecdote some months ago about a friend of mine in Michigan who is a utility lineman and he goes to high school seniors to solicit apprentice programs. I'm not going to get into the details again because its long, but the short story is he found THEY DON'T WANT TO WORK. 

Pretty strong day on Wall Street yesterday. Close to 34,000 territory again on the Dow and today should add to that.

[Guest]

@StickyBun said:

@JimmyinSD said:
I saw this today and made me think of this thread....

Kids don't want these blue collar jobs.....and not because they are 'looked down upon'. They're lazy and entitled. No matter how hard some of us old timers want the younger generation to embrace these jobs, they aren't. I told an anecdote some months ago about a friend of mine in Michigan who is a utility lineman and he goes to high school seniors to solicit apprentice programs. I'm not going to get into the details again because its long, but the short story is he found THEY DON'T WANT TO WORK. 

Pretty strong day on Wall Street yesterday. Close to 34,000 territory again on the Dow and today should add to that.

Been following this thread and the term "entitled" kept ruminating as I thought about it.  I look at my kids career paths and the positions didn't exist 5 years ago.  One of the things I shared with them as they grew up, was that I had to keep reinventing my skills, as my career progressed.  The only trade on that list that I didn't work with or hire was Oil Worker.  In a production environment Electrician, Mechanic or Carpenters are repetitive tasks and automated or considered assembly labor.  For maintenance or fabrication I looked to skilled journeyman qualified tradesmen, which the majority of the time were people who had gone through union apprenticeship programs.  Talk about a category of training that has been looked down upon and demonized, Unions have been it.Good discussion keep it up, it provides good insight.

[Guest]

So lets take entitled a little further.  We see it as and extremely negative term but is it?

If a person is going to go get a degree (spend 2-4+ years doing so) that is relatively useful what should they expect out of society?
I'd like to say that if you're going to get the skills to do a job either through a traditional college or through job experience that you ought to be able (entitled) to put a roof over your head and have food in your refrigerator at the end of the week.

Society has told these kids that college is required.  I get that.  Employers pretty much know that they can weed out most kids that don't have a degree because there's 1000s more to choose from.
I'm just babbling here by all means...........
But here goes some socialist undertones from a self described libertarian.  If you have a job that is needed or even sought after in society.  Society should be willing to give you what it takes to lead at least a modest life.  So you should be "entitled" to food, a roof, basic healthcare, a vehicle,  (because we don't do public transit) and some spending cash.  If the kid wants to spend their cash on the latest Iphone and avacado toast....who are we to judge?
I'd like to keep going down the home ownership route here, which is what I think of when I think of the American dream.  Debt to income ratio on a mortgage is 45%.  (This assumes you've saved 20%....$45k) You need $30k annual income right now just to buy a double wide trailer ($225k) on a foundation around here now days.  Thats about $15/hour if thats your one and only debt.  If you financed a car at say $400/mo now you need $20/hr ($42k) for a very modest car and your queen of your double wide trailer. If you throw in even a small student loan into that equation or you were stupid with money at one point or you had a medical emergency your entire world would crumble.  There are no low skill jobs around here that pay +$20/hr.  There aren't many jobs that pay in excess of $20/hr unless you're a professional of some sort. 

When the deck is stacked against the kids I can't blame them for being/feeling  lazy/"entitled".  If you can't even access the American dream?  What would you do?
And absolutely NONE of this brings kids into the equation. 

[Guest]

@AGRforever said:

So lets take entitled a little further.  We see it as and extremely negative term but is it?

If a person is going to go get a degree (spend 2-4+ years doing so) that is relatively useful what should they expect out of society?
I'd like to say that if you're going to get the skills to do a job either through a traditional college or through job experience that you ought to be able (entitled) to put a roof over your head and have food in your refrigerator at the end of the week.

Society has told these kids that college is required.  I get that.  Employers pretty much know that they can weed out most kids that don't have a degree because there's 1000s more to choose from.
I'm just babbling here by all means...........
But here goes some socialist undertones from a self described libertarian.  If you have a job that is needed or even sought after in society.  Society should be willing to give you what it takes to lead at least a modest life.  So you should be "entitled" to food, a roof, basic healthcare, a vehicle,  (because we don't do public transit) and some spending cash.  If the kid wants to spend their cash on the latest Iphone and avacado toast....who are we to judge?
I'd like to keep going down the home ownership route here, which is what I think of when I think of the American dream.  Debt to income ratio on a mortgage is 45%.  (This assumes you've saved 20%....$45k) You need $30k annual income right now just to buy a double wide trailer ($225k) on a foundation around here now days.  Thats about $15/hour if thats your one and only debt.  If you financed a car at say $400/mo now you need $20/hr ($42k) for a very modest car and your queen of your double wide trailer. If you throw in even a small student loan into that equation or you were stupid with money at one point or you had a medical emergency your entire world would crumble.  There are no low skill jobs around here that pay +$20/hr.  There aren't many jobs that pay in excess of $20/hr unless you're a professional of some sort. 

When the deck is stacked against the kids I can't blame them for being/feeling  lazy/"entitled".  If you can't even access the American dream?  What would you do?
And absolutely NONE of this brings kids into the equation. 

so your area is upside down.  you live in a very popular area currently and its likely your kids will either have to struggle there or move to where they will make enough to survive.  I remember when I was coming out of college Denver area was blowing up,  everybody my age wanted to live there,  we looked at it and said WTF... jobs werent paying shit, there was tons of competition and housing was ridiculous I had a lot of kids i graduate with head that way,  very very few stayed,  most of them realized that their degrees paid them a lot more in other areas where often the cost of living was much more reasonable.

I have companies that I sell to that are picking up education expenses for kids willing to sign contracts to come work for them,  I know of hospitals offering 25K sign on bonuses for RNs,  and that is those jobs pay over 50k starting out with only about a 2.5 year required education. 

I dont see it as bleak, my kids are both in their early/mid 20s,  both are making over 50k a year with full benefits packages and neither have a bachelors degree.  They also both live in SD where the wages are about as low as they are anywhere in the country.  They both chose their careers based on need in the work place, education required, room for advancement,  and if the job didnt sound like it sucked.  My daughter owns her own home,  my son is still in fuck off mode, but is storing money away to buy his grandpas home 1/4 once the family is ready to sell it.   I think the opportunities are out there as long as the kids have realistic expectations, which I know doesnt apply to all.  We have a kid where I work that his parents are friends with the owner of the company,  he is currently getting his associated degree in business ( completely worthless ) and he seems to think he will be running this company in 2 years when the owner retires,  which I know for a fact will not be happening,  but he brags to the others around here about what hes going to do and buy once he is done with school and in charge.  ( reality will be quite rude to this kid )

EDIT:  another thing though,   whats wrong with kids working more than 40 a week to get started in life?  When I was in my 20s I was doing 50-60/wk in construction, then going home and working the farm to get a beef herd started (bought baby calves and bottle fed them to get em started, lots of shit to pitch by hand)  and putting up the hay crops,  plus I would take cash jobs laying flooring or other things to try and get my bills paid down.   My son doesnt want that life so he isnt doing the farming part, but he takes all the OT he can get,  works extra jobs in the summer for cash,  and uses his vacation time to hunt instead of going somewhere and spending a ton of cash.  I dont condemn those that want to play when they are young,  but that comes at a cost so if they cant have a nice car,  or own their own house then that is a choice they make.  I dont remember ever being told you can have all those nice things right away if you went to college,  just that if you wanted to be able to have them some day that an education would be very helpful.

[Guest]

What you call society, sounds more like economy factors.   It is a free market economy, and that market responds to supply demand and who has the power.  The role the of government is to provide the structure to keep it free, which I define as equal free access. That is done through regulation and laws, which in current culture is bad.  Add in that money is now considered free speech, and revocation of things like Glass-Steagall, seems like the kids may need to add some more market savvy, that we have never considered.  What is the American dream, when you can loose everything by getting sick? 

[Guest]

Jimmy,

I had to base my math off something. 40 hours a week seemed logical. I also work my ever loving ass off at that age. I think my record at the restaurant I worked at in highschool was 96 one week. 

Our area has just gone through this big change in prices and wages haven’t went up at all.  Add in 6-7% mortgage rates and everything here is unaffordable. I expect a correction but all the people fleeing their liberal shitholes have really messed our local markets up. 

Hell, my wife and I are millionaires in our early 40s because of property values. 

[Guest]

@AGRforever said:
Jimmy,

I had to base my math off something. 40 hours a week seemed logical. I also work my ever loving ass off at that age. I think my record at the restaurant I worked at in highschool was 96 one week. 

Our area has just gone through this big change in prices and wages haven’t went up at all.  Add in 6-7% mortgage rates and everything here is unaffordable. I expect a correction but all the people fleeing their liberal shitholes have really messed our local markets up. 

Hell, my wife and I are millionaires in our early 40s because of property values. 

thats what I was thinking 250k for a double wide is a lot of blue sky.  we are seeing similar things in the black hills ( another popular landing spot for people looking for a more conservative place to call home ) and they are pricing the locals out of the market.  Wife and I were staying in Hot Springs, SD about a year ago and most all the restaurants were closed at supper time, I started asking around and the answer was simply they couldnt afford to pay what it took to get decent help,  the lower skilled workers cant afford to live there any more.  now I think that was likely a bit of an exaggeration and it was likely still people living off Federal covid checks and other shit that just hadnt gotten hungry enough yet to go back to work,  but the facts are that the housing prices are stupid and its unfortunate for younger people wanting to live in those areas,  but at the same time... location is a choice in a free (ish) country.