Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ minny65 said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
I think Geoff has it right and they leapfrog Washington and get one of the DBs.
I've always had the theory if you are going to spend picks or players to get 1 player....he better be damn special. If/when KAM moves up for. player , that player gets held to a higher standard when evaluating the GM IMO. If he moves up it better be a solid pick, not a bunch of question marks.
Yeah, I'm certainly throwing $hit at the wall and have no idea what KAM is thinking as do the rest of us.
I don't think there's going to be much in the form of compensation because we're in a buyers market. Seems theres 10ish top flight prospects and then a bunch of players who could go in that 11-40 range who all have about the same shot of hitting. So would you willing to move down if the hypothetical return on draft capital was say 60-70% of the draft points charts?
Say would you move down to say 16 or 19 with New Orleans for them to get to pick the first QB if all we got back was a 3rd?
Good question, No I would not move down to 16 for just a 3rd rounder. A move down (for me) would have to at least net us an additional second rounder. Using one of the draft value charts we could drop to the NO 19th spot and also get there second rounder pick # 49. That would be tempting but it really depends on what our choices are at 12, right.
If we drop far enough to net a 2nd this year, I would rather have the first next year. Especially if its a team that isn't likely to be a strong playoff contender like the saints.
So just to keep the conversation going for the trade down crowd. Would you be willing to trade 12 for say one of Kansas City's 1st this year, their first next year and they'd probably need to include their 3rd next year or 4th this year to make it workout?
Or based on a point chart, our 12 and a swap of 2nds for their 2 firsts this year.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ minny65 said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
I think Geoff has it right and they leapfrog Washington and get one of the DBs.
I've always had the theory if you are going to spend picks or players to get 1 player....he better be damn special. If/when KAM moves up for. player , that player gets held to a higher standard when evaluating the GM IMO. If he moves up it better be a solid pick, not a bunch of question marks.
Yeah, I'm certainly throwing $hit at the wall and have no idea what KAM is thinking as do the rest of us.
I don't think there's going to be much in the form of compensation because we're in a buyers market. Seems theres 10ish top flight prospects and then a bunch of players who could go in that 11-40 range who all have about the same shot of hitting. So would you willing to move down if the hypothetical return on draft capital was say 60-70% of the draft points charts?
Say would you move down to say 16 or 19 with New Orleans for them to get to pick the first QB if all we got back was a 3rd?
Good question, No I would not move down to 16 for just a 3rd rounder. A move down (for me) would have to at least net us an additional second rounder. Using one of the draft value charts we could drop to the NO 19th spot and also get there second rounder pick # 49. That would be tempting but it really depends on what our choices are at 12, right.
If we drop far enough to net a 2nd this year, I would rather have the first next year. Especially if its a team that isn't likely to be a strong playoff contender like the saints.
Yea, does anyone know of a draft value chart for the following year??? I can't find any. Obviously, the value of the 12th pick this year is higher then the 12th pick next year but I am just wondering what others have found? So to your point, if we move down from 12 to 19 with NO this draft you would pass on the Saints 49th pick this year and just want there 1st rounder next year? Let's assume/hope the Saints are mediocre next year and are picking in the 14-20 range which for this year would be in the 1100 to 800 point range...what is that value for this year. We are giving up roughly 400 points to move down and could we translate that picking up at least 800 points, double our points, for next year?
Always sounds good to me to double your money but this is really just a lottery and not really about points. I understand the thought process of loading up for an anticipated need and value QB draft next year but those are complete unknowns at this point.
Interesting and a tough call - IMO.
Quote: @minny65 said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ minny65 said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
I think Geoff has it right and they leapfrog Washington and get one of the DBs.
I've always had the theory if you are going to spend picks or players to get 1 player....he better be damn special. If/when KAM moves up for. player , that player gets held to a higher standard when evaluating the GM IMO. If he moves up it better be a solid pick, not a bunch of question marks.
Yeah, I'm certainly throwing $hit at the wall and have no idea what KAM is thinking as do the rest of us.
I don't think there's going to be much in the form of compensation because we're in a buyers market. Seems theres 10ish top flight prospects and then a bunch of players who could go in that 11-40 range who all have about the same shot of hitting. So would you willing to move down if the hypothetical return on draft capital was say 60-70% of the draft points charts?
Say would you move down to say 16 or 19 with New Orleans for them to get to pick the first QB if all we got back was a 3rd?
Good question, No I would not move down to 16 for just a 3rd rounder. A move down (for me) would have to at least net us an additional second rounder. Using one of the draft value charts we could drop to the NO 19th spot and also get there second rounder pick # 49. That would be tempting but it really depends on what our choices are at 12, right.
If we drop far enough to net a 2nd this year, I would rather have the first next year. Especially if its a team that isn't likely to be a strong playoff contender like the saints.
Yea, does anyone know of a draft value chart for the following year??? I can't find any. Obviously, the value of the 12th pick this year is higher then the 12th pick next year but I am just wondering what others have found? So to your point, if we move down from 12 to 19 with NO this draft you would pass on the Saints 49th pick this year and just want there 1st rounder next year? Let's assume/hope the Saints are mediocre next year and are picking in the 14-20 range which for this year would be in the 1100 to 800 point range...what is that value for this year. We are giving up roughly 400 points to move down and could we translate that picking up at least 800 points, double our points, for next year?
Always sounds good to me to double your money but this is really just a lottery and not really about points. I understand the thought process of loading up for an anticipated need and value QB draft next year but those are complete unknowns at this point.
Interesting and a tough call - IMO.
A good rule of thumb I've always been told is a pick is devalued 1 round for each year down the road. So a 1st next year would be weighed about the same as a 2nd this year, a first in 24 would be a 3rd in 22. Not sure how sound that still is with rookie caps and stuff, but its a starting point.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ minny65 said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ AGRforever said:
I think Geoff has it right and they leapfrog Washington and get one of the DBs.
I've always had the theory if you are going to spend picks or players to get 1 player....he better be damn special. If/when KAM moves up for. player , that player gets held to a higher standard when evaluating the GM IMO. If he moves up it better be a solid pick, not a bunch of question marks.
Yeah, I'm certainly throwing $hit at the wall and have no idea what KAM is thinking as do the rest of us.
I don't think there's going to be much in the form of compensation because we're in a buyers market. Seems theres 10ish top flight prospects and then a bunch of players who could go in that 11-40 range who all have about the same shot of hitting. So would you willing to move down if the hypothetical return on draft capital was say 60-70% of the draft points charts?
Say would you move down to say 16 or 19 with New Orleans for them to get to pick the first QB if all we got back was a 3rd?
Good question, No I would not move down to 16 for just a 3rd rounder. A move down (for me) would have to at least net us an additional second rounder. Using one of the draft value charts we could drop to the NO 19th spot and also get there second rounder pick # 49. That would be tempting but it really depends on what our choices are at 12, right.
If we drop far enough to net a 2nd this year, I would rather have the first next year. Especially if its a team that isn't likely to be a strong playoff contender like the saints.
So just to keep the conversation going for the trade down crowd. Would you be willing to trade 12 for say one of Kansas City's 1st this year, their first next year and they'd probably need to include their 3rd next year or 4th this year to make it workout?
Or based on a point chart, our 12 and a swap of 2nds for their 2 firsts this year.
Thier first next year is likely a later first, it would really depend on what else they are throwing in, who is already off the board, and what other offers I am weighing.
I’m mainly curious to see Kam’s philosophy. Is he a pick hoarder/needs based/ or BPA draft manager?
Personally, I’m a best player available guy. With the way injuries, free agency, and unknowns go, what could appear a strength even next year may end up being a critical need.
What will Kam’s view be? I’m just excited we finally get a chance to find out!
We are committed to Cousins for the next two years. Trading down in the hopes of stockpiling additional picks for next year doesn't align with the Wilf's desire to win now or the investment in Cousins. If we were building for the future, we would have traded Cousins and not spend any money in Free Agency. I agree with those that believe we should take the BPA at 12 that can provide an immediate impact. There will be some great players available at our pick and there is no guarantee that we will get an impact player later in the first round where we would most likely end up in a trade down scenario.
Quote: @TBro said:
We are committed to Cousins for the next two years. Trading down in the hopes of stockpiling additional picks for next year doesn't align with the Wilf's desire to win now or the investment in Cousins. If we were building for the future, we would have traded Cousins and not spend any money in Free Agency. I agree with those that believe we should take the BPA at 12 that can provide an immediate impact. There will be some great players available at our pick and there is no guarantee that we will get an impact player later in the first round where we would most likely end up in a trade down scenario.
I think it aligns perfectly fine. I don't think it's an either/or situation. I think everyone--the Wilfs, KAM, KOC and all of us, want to win now, but also want to have a plan for the future if Kirk doesn't put certain questions to rest.
There's no reason the Vikings can't add a future pick or two, as well as draft a defensive starter or two in this year's draft. Obviously the opportunity has to be there to do so and we'll just have to see about that.
But the key fact in this is that they extended Cousins for one year, not four.
Okay analytics the long game is to figure out who is going to be the worst team for this upcoming season and convince them to take our first this year for their second this year and their 1st next+ 3-4 round next year. Get KC"s replacement and build it right next year.
According to Chad Graff of the Athletic, the Vikings would be willing to move up in the draft if Sauce Gardner or Travon Walker were available later then expected...
Interesting, but I expect both guys will be gone within the top 4 picks
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ TBro said:
We are committed to Cousins for the next two years. Trading down in the hopes of stockpiling additional picks for next year doesn't align with the Wilf's desire to win now or the investment in Cousins. If we were building for the future, we would have traded Cousins and not spend any money in Free Agency. I agree with those that believe we should take the BPA at 12 that can provide an immediate impact. There will be some great players available at our pick and there is no guarantee that we will get an impact player later in the first round where we would most likely end up in a trade down scenario.
I think it aligns perfectly fine. I don't think it's an either/or situation. I think everyone--the Wilfs, KAM, KOC and all of us, want to win now, but also want to have a plan for the future if Kirk doesn't put certain questions to rest.
There's no reason the Vikings can't add a future pick or two, as well as draft a defensive starter or two in this year's draft. Obviously the opportunity has to be there to do so and we'll just have to see about that.
But the key fact in this is that they extended Cousins for one year, not four.
Like it or not, Cousins is guaranteed his money for this season and next and his No Trade Clause gives him all the leverage. We are stuck with him as our starter for the next two seasons which is why it doesn't make sense to pass on a quality player at 12 that can be a difference maker this year. There is no reason to believe that Cousins will not be put in a better position to perform by this Coaching Staff vs. the revolving door of Offensive Coordinators with questionable schemes/play calling, and a meddling Head Coach who became a liability at the end of his tenure.
MB, we can agree to disagree on the path to success. I'm tired of this team trying to accumulate more picks with the trade down strategy and Kwesi said as much at his press conference. I'm betting we won't have a pick this high in the next two seasons and I don't want to gamble on a late first round player. It would be a risky move to assume someone like McDuffie would fall far enough for us to grab him by moving down. Same with the top receivers and edge rushers. To me, the second tier of 1st round talent isn't much different than what you can grab in the 2nd round.
We will see how things play out tomorrow. If Kwesi pulls off an amazing trade down maneuver that lands us a quality starter and additional picks, I will be the first one to admit my error in judgement and congratulate your draft prowess of predicting Kwesi's 1st round draft strategy.
Regardless, I'm looking forward to how the story plays out.
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